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View Poll Results: Who should enter the Wrestlezone Hall of Fame?
Undertaker 12 33.33%
Sting 6 16.67%
The Rock 18 50.00%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-09-2014, 01:14 AM
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Default Wrestlezone Hall of Fame: Winter 2014, Group 2.

Moderator Note: Even though it is unmarked, this poll will end at 3/16/14 at 11:59pm, where the thread will be locked. Please get your votes in by that time. Thank you!

Welcome to the Wrestlezone class of 2014, Group #2 of the winter edition of the Hall of Fame! In this second group, you'll have the distinct honor of choosing the man who will go into the Hall of Fame alongside Trish Stratus. These three wrestlers you may choose from are unique in that while technically not retired, they wrestle few and far between, and all three men have been consensually thought of, at one point of their career or another, as 3 of the most respected men in the wrestling business. Who will enter the next inductee into the Winter Hall of Fame class of 2014? It's up to you, Wrestlezone, to decide who will join the likes of Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Steve Austin, Lou Thesz, Bruno Sammartino, and others! While the Hall of Fame may seem a popularity contest, please remember to vote for the man you find most deserving. The polls will be open for seven days to allow you to vote in the second candidate into the Winter of 2014 Hall of Fame, and the first "non-retired" wrestler as well!

The Undertaker

Perhaps the biggest question surrounding the Undertaker right now is whether or not the thing he is most synonymous with, The Streak at Wrestlemania, will end at the hands of Brock Lesnar at WM 30. That's a question we'll have to wait and see to be answered in a month, but here, there's a decision to be made by the members here at Wrestlezone! A member of the 2004 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame, will Undertaker add Wrestlezone Hall of Famer to his list as well? Instead of having to wait until next month at Wrestlemania, wrestling fans here at Wrestlezone will make an important decision as well. Should Undertaker join Trish Stratus in this Winter OF 2014 class of Hall of Famer's?

When most wrestling fans think of the Undertaker, and more specifically, his accomplishments, most naturally think of the Streak. It's one of the major selling points to Wrestlemania, some years, the biggest. But one day a year does not a career make, so unless you just began watching wrestling over the past three years, you recognize that Undertaker was once a full-time worker.

After a short, inauspicious time in WCW as Mean Mark Callous, TheUndertaker debuted in the WWF(E) at Survivor Series 1990. He was the mystery fifth man on Ted DiBiase Sr.'s Million Dollar Team, eliminating Koko B. Ware and Dusty Rhodes both before being eliminated himself, via countout. After this, he was pushed into facing some of the top talent of the 80's, including Randy Savage, Sgt. Slaughter, Ultimate Warrior, and Hulk Hogan. His feud with Warrior in 1991 was a unanimous selection for feud of the year, and at Survivor Series in 1991, he won the first of his seven WWF/E when he defeated Hulk Hogan. Though he lost the title back to Hogan 5 days later at This Tuesday in Texas, with Paul Bearer beside him, Undertaker was cemented as a top-of-the card heel.

Heading into his 3rd Wrestlemania he turned face for the first time, beginning what was a series of first for him. In saving Miss Elizabeth from an attack by Jake "The Snake" Roberts, he found an opponent at 1992's Wrestlemania, his first as a fan favorite. At Survivor Series '92, he would compete in the first WWF(E) Casket Match, of which he has been in sixteen , winning twelve for a 75% winning percentage. In 1993, Undertaker experienced another of what was a series of firsts for himself. Not only did he participate in the first Monday Night Raw, he main-evented the first Monday-Night Raw as well. In 1997, he and Shawn Michaels fought in what was the first Hell In A Cell match, which saw the debut of Undertaker's half-brother Kane. Just as Undertaker appeared to have the match won, Paul Bearer made his way to the ring with Kane, who ripped the Cell door off and Tombstoned Undertaker, leading to a match between the two at Wrestlemania 14, and later, a match at Wrestlemania 20.

Speaking of Wrestlemania and Kane, it would be foolish to ignore The Streak, or Kane's role in it. While Undertaker is 21-0, it wasn't until he was 11-0 and about to face Kane for the second time that the match was considered a true "selling point" at Wrestlemania. In a promo leading up to their match, Kane threatened to take away everything important to Undertaker, "including the Streak." This lead to, from that point forward, wrestlers vowing or promising to end the streak, making the Streak one of the top "selling points" of the card. The quality of opponent, importance of the match, or stipulations, were increased. Undertaker prominently defeated veterans and older wrestlers, save for HHH and Kane, to get to 12-0, but once there, the relevance or status of opponent increased.

WM 21: vs. Randy Orton(Legend vs. Legend Killer)13-0
WM 22: vs. Mark Henry(Casket Match) Hey, can't get them all right. 14-0
WM 23: vs. Batista(For the World Heavyweight Championship) 15-0
WM 24: vs. Edge(For the World Heavyweight Championship, only the second time 'Taker main-evented Wrestlemania)16-0
WM 25: vs. Shawn Michaels(The Phenom vs. Mr. Wrestlemania)17-0
WM 26: vs. Shawn Michaels( HBK's career on the line)18-0
WM 27: vs. HHH(No Holds Barred)19-0
WM 28: vs. HHH(Hell In A Cell, HBK as referee)20-0
WM 29: vs. CM Punk(Top Heel coming off record-setting reign; Regular match)21-0

As Undertaker has gotten older, his opponents have gotten more difficult in skill, and more has been on the line.( not only his streak)

Undertaker has done it all, and is, despite doing only 2-3 matches a year, considerably banged up. He owes WWE nothing, yet he comes out and delivers one of, if not the, best match not only at Wrestlemania, but of the year, year in and year in. His streak is tagged as the biggest in sports, not just in wrestling, by WWE. He's incredibly athletic for a big man, and he's seemingly improved with age. His moveset has all the old favorites we remember in Snake Eyes, Old School, and the Big Boot, and he's got as many finishers as ten men combined in the Chokeslam, Last Ride Powerbomb, Tombstone Piledriver, and the Hell's Gate(modified Googlapata he picked up from his MMA fandom). He was the locker room leader when he was a full-time wrestler, and as older wrestlers put him over when he was younger, he put over plenty of younger wrestlers when a full-time wrestler.

And, of course, he's got the Streak:


Will he or won't he? That's the biggest question that WWE fans ask every year around this time, and even when it appeared to be possibly true this year when Steve "Sting" Borden didn't re-sign with TNA when his contract ran out in January, it appears he won't be facing the Undertaker, everyone's dream match for him, either. Still, that doesn't stop both WWE and TNA fans from speculating as to when/if/how/why/where Sting will show up, and there's good reason for that.

Sting is one of the most popular wrestling stars of all-time, and, most likely, the most popular face in the history of both WCW and TNA. But it almost didn't turn out that way. When Sting was young, in his 20's, three bodybuilders came to the gym where he worked, looking for an athlete who had the physical tools now, and could learn the ins and outs of the business later. Sting-Steve Borden-wanted to be a professional bodybuilder, so he offered to help the three men find someone who had the characteristics they were looking for. When he couldn't find anyone after 3 weeks, the three men came back, saw the same things in Sting they liked the first time, and offered the 4th spot to Sting. And the rest was history....Or not.

Sting went through only 10 weeks of training, which is unheard of these days, to become a professional wrestler. When the other two men left professional wrestling shortly after, only Sting and Jim "Justice" Hellwig, who would later be known as the Ultimate Warrior, were left. When Warrior was recruited to go work for the WWF and Vince McMahon, Sting was left in Jim Crockett promotions on his own...again..or not. He had men, Lex Luger, Eddie Gilbert, Jimmy Garvin, and even Ric Flair, lining up, wanting to tag with him. He won three tag team championships is his third year as a professional wrestler. Not in a developmental territory, but in the big leagues, for Jim Crockett promotions, and he and Lex Luger later won the third, and final, illustrious Crockett Cup, featuring the top tag teams around in their region, when they beat an established tag team from the Four Horseman, Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson. Head booker at the time, Dusty Rhodes, who wanted to showcase Sting's natural skills further, put one half of the Crockett Cup winners, and rarely-used-in-singles competition Sting, against Ric Flair at Clash of The Champions, in what was still Sting's third year as a professional wrestler. This would be like one of the Uso brothers taking on John Cena for the World Title, which one would think should be a squash. Instead, Sting battled Flair to a 45 minute draw, in a match where the end was reminiscent of Hart/HBK from WM 12, where Sting had Flair in the Scorpion Deathlock for the last 30 seconds, but Flair refused to submit. Sting was allowed, only two years into his wrestling career, to take the World's champion to the limit, and had there been another minute, the likely conclusion is he would have won.

Sting's time would come.

He returned to tag team wrestling following, as after beating Anderson and Blanchard and taking Flair to the limit, he was chosen by Flair to be his partner against the Great Muta and Terry Funk. After that feud was over, Flair invited Sting to join the Four Horsemen, which he did, but in only his fourth year as a wrestler, in the final event of 1989, he won the Iron-Man, round-robin tournament at Starrcade '89, granting him a shot against the World Champion. In kayfabe, the Horsemen kicked him out and injured Sting's knee, but in real life, Sting had injured his patella during an attempt to "go after" Flair inside a steel cage after being booted from the Horseman. Since's Sting's injury was to keep him out 5-6 months, Ric Flair, due to vacation and drop the World Title, vowed to stay on and hold the title until Sting could return. Ole Anderson, who had taken over as head booker for Dusty Rhodes, explained what Flair had said to him when he told Flair he had found a suitable replacement for Sting in Lex Luger. Said Flair, to head booker, Ole Anderson.

"I'm not just dropping this title to some motherf*****g nobody. I made a Go***mn promise to him-Steve, Sting,-that I would wait until he could return, and I would only drop the belt to him, no other motherf****r on the planet. And I'm keeping my word on that, or I f***ing leave. Do you understand me?"
This was like the situation where WWE wanted John Cena to vacate the WWE Title early, before Summerslam this past year, and Cena refused, fighting to stay on to drop the title to Bryan at Summerslam. Except he technically could have dropped it any time. And Bryan had 10+ years of experience and training on Sting. And Bryan was healthy. Flair's sentiment and respect for Sting was essentially shared by most.

Flair was good to his word, as he dropped the title to Sting 6 months later at July's Great American Bash in 1990. Sting would go on to win one more NWA World Championship(Jeff Jarrett in 2006 at Bound For Glory), 6 WCW World Championships, including defeating Hulk Hogan 3 times:

2/29/92: Lex Luger: SuperBrawl 92- Sting had dropped the title back to Flair, who then agreed to drop the title to Luger. In Luger's final match in WCW, he showed all the professionalism of Lesnar or Goldberg in their final match, and sandbagged Sting to a terrible match. Still, Sting won the title.

3/11/93: Vader: Episode of Nitro- Until this point, Vader was being booked as a nearly unstoppable monster, including taking the title from Sting, breaking his ribs, rupturing his spleen, and later defeating him in a strap match. Sting got short-lived revenge, as he won the title from Vader, only to lose it back 6 days later.

12/28/97: Hulk Hogan: Starrcade '97-Sting had donned the Crow makeup, gone silent, and began carrying the bat around. He was, essentially, the savior of WCW, and despite WCW putting the belt on him, they still screwed it up, as Hogan dominated him.

2/22/98: Hulk Hogan: SuperBrawl '98: Another nail in WCW's coffin, this was supposed to be a big moment for WCW and Sting. Rather, it turned into Randy Savage and Sting re-igniting a 12 year old rivalry, possibly longer, when Savage cost Hogan the match. Little focus was on the actual winner, Sting.

4/26/99: Diamond Dallas Page: Episode of Nitro: Sting won the title from DDP earlier in the night, then lost the title the same night in a Fatal Four Way that also included Kevin Nash, Goldberg, and DDP, of course. DDP pinned Nash, taking the title from Sting in the shortest reign in WCW history. The "Icon", The "Franchise of WCW", Sting lost the title without even being pinned.

9/12/99: Hulk Hogan: FallBrawl '99- In what should have been an impressive moment, Sting defeated Hogan for the third time for the World Title. Only, he cheated to do it when Lex Luger gave him a bat, Sting hits Hogan and then applies the Scorpion, and in a moment that was supposed to turn him heel, garnered him a face reaction, a standing ovation. A heel Sting was something the fans didn't want to see.

Sting, despite being beloved in every way, by fans and his fellow wrestlers alike, was done wrong by booking, and was made to look lucky, or like a fluke, time and again. Yet, while others left for more money, Sting wouldn't go to the WWE because he was worried about how he'ld be treated in WWE. Could it have been worse then his time in WCW's main event scene? Anyways, Sting stayed with WCW until the end, and actually wrestled one match, technically, for the WWF(E), the final match ever on Nitro, and Sting defeated Flair and hugged him, closing WCW's doors forever.

Sting was worried about poor treatment and being stuck at the bottom of the ladder in WWE, so he stayed away from professional wrestling in the U.S. for the most part, making an appearance here and there in TNA before signing with them for what turned out to be the better part of 8 years, with a contract that began on January 1st 2006. It was in TNA he won his final 5 World Championships, to date, defeating Jeff Jarrett with his career on the line at Bound For Glory 2006, defeating Kurt Angle to win the title at Bound For Glory 2007, and defeating Samoa Joe to win the title at Bound For Glory 2008. He didn't win another title in TNA for 3 years, after taking time off, he returned on a March episode of Impact, defeating Jeff Hardy in his first match in TNA in 5 months. 8 months later, also on an episode of Impact, he defeated Mr. Anderson for his(to this date) final World Championship, both in TNA and overall.

The knock on Sting, by some, is that he has "ducked" the best competition in the world by not coming to WWE, but nothing could be further from the truth. He's faced, and beaten for titles, the Flair's, the Hogan's, and the Vader's: The best, the greatest, and the biggest. Is the fact that HBK never jumped to WCW and beat Flair or Hogan in their(close to) primes one that should be held against him? Of course not. Sting has earned the nickname the "Icon" and the "Franchise Player of WCW", and in 2012, as the first "Hall of Famer" of TNA.

Will he be known as a Wrestlezone Hall of Famer in one week's time as well?

The Rock

For a man who wanted to be a professional football player first and foremost, rejected by both the NFL and the CFL(Canadian Football League), Id say Dwayne "The Rock Johnson has done well for himself. He won what many thought to be his final WWE Championship at the 2002 edition of WWF(E) Vengeance against Kurt Angle and The Undertaker, which at the time was the most WWE Titles, which has since been surpassed by John Cena's 11. Upon losing the title to Brock Lesnar at Summerslam 2002, other then for a few sporadic appearances here and there, he spent most of his time on his acting career.

But in 2013, The Rock returned to the WWE to win the WWE Championship at the Royal Rumble, headlined Wrestlemania in a rematch(and loss) with John Cena, this time for the WWE Championship. And, oh yeah, he was the highest grossing actor of 2013. That's not to show that his acting career has anything to do with his wrestling one, as it shouldn't be a factor here, but it does go to show the dedication Rock had to both careers, and raises one question:

Will the Rock earn his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame first, or his invitation to the WWE Hall of Fame first? He's already a 2007 Wrestling Observer Hall of Famer, and in short time, will he add Wrestlezone Hall of Famer to his long list of accomplishments as well?

When Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson first entered the WWE, he did so having been trained by Hall of Famer Pat Patterson, and his father, Rocky Johnson. It was out of a show of respect for both his grandfather and his father, two men who did not get along, that he took his original name in the WWF, Rocky Maivea. It was Johnson's intended goal, upon starting out in the business, to achieve what his father had done, which was simply to win the World Tag Team Titles. His father, along with Tony Atlas, had been the first black men to ever win the tag titles as a team. He came from a great heritage of wrestlers, however, and while the older generation, like Yokozuna, Rikishi, and even his father were hesitant to see The Rock break into wrestling, it was watching his family around him, including his younger cousins, such as Umaga, Manu, and some older, such as The Wild Samoans, find success, from the professional ranks(Wild Samoans) to the amateur(Manu, Umaga,) that convinced by The Rock and his father alike that nothing was going to stand in his way.

The Rock was pushed immediately as Rocky Maivea, where he was also known as the "Blue Chipper". He was hyped heavily as the son of Rocky, grandson of Peter Maivea, and the cousin of The Wild Samoans, and despite having little experience, he was pushed heavily. His first match ever was on PPV, at the 1996 Survivor Series, where he was the sole survivor for his team. Despite being a face and his lineage being heavily mentioned, he was booed soundly. Perhaps it was his look, teal tights with white boots, teal kneepads, and teal chestdress with teal streamers. Or perhaps it was the way he talked, like a cookie cutter babyface with a nasally pitch to his voice. Shortly thereafter, he won the Intercontinental Title, but he was continued to be heavily booed. "Rocky sucks!" and "Die Rocky Die!" were chanted during his run as Rocky Maivea, and even the Rock, looking back, said he understood why:
"I looked and sounded like a f****ng f****t. If I had been in the crowd and had seen me, I would have chanted along. I would have been better off as Flex Cavana."
Flex Cavana was the name he used in Jerry Lawler's United States Wrestling Association, where he had wrestled and was trained some by Dr. Tom Prichard and Mark Henry alike before going to the WWF/E.

After dropping the Intercontinental Title after a short reign to Owen Hart, "Rocky" suffered a "minor knee injury" that took him off television for 6 weeks. It was the best thing that ever happened to his career. He was no longer a face, he was a smack-talking heel. He soon joined Farooq's heel stable The Nation of Domination, and "Rocky Maivea", blue streamers and all, was gone forever. In his place was the Rock, a smack-talking, audience and opponent insulting, ultra-cool heel. He had come along during the age of the cool heel, and the transformation of characters for him was absolutely perfect. He "won" the Intercontinental title again, this time from Steve Austin in 1997, who forfeited it to him, wanting to chase the WWF/E title instead. But as would be the case throughout their careers, Rock chose to first feud with Austin instead, refusing to take the cheap win, and feuded with Austin from the summer of '97 all the way into early '98, where he and the Nation of Domination feuded with Austin and Ken Shamrock.

But the Rock's big "breakout", if you will, was when he overthrew Farooq as the leader of the Nation of Domination. They had a Winner Take All match, both for the IC Title and leadership of the NOD, which Rock won at In Your House: Over the Edge in May of 98. But it was at Summerslam that Rock really started his ascent to full-time main-eventer. He and the NOD would feud with D-Generation X and it's leader, HHH, over the IC Title for most of the summer, which lead to an incredible ladder match between Rock and HHH at Summerslam.

The Rock lost, but this lead to him becoming a permanent fixture in the Main Event scene. Rock became a face, but not for long, feuding with Vince McMahon but then turning heel as Vince turned on Mankind, who had been a Vince lackey to that point. This lead to Rock winning the first of what was, at the time, a record 8 WWF/E Championship reigns, and two World Championship reigns.

All of us who paid attention to wrestling in the slightest bit know of Rock's contributions to the Attitude Era. Had he stayed and not been acting and Austin not have gotten injured, it's incredible to think that these two would possibly be closing in on a retirement match together at Wrestlemania 30, or something like it. As is, the two faced off three times at Wrestlemania, with the Rock winning the one at Wrestlemania 19. It's considered one of the greatest rivalries in the WWF(E) history. When the Rock enters the WWE Hall of Fame one day, could Austin possibly induct the Rock? We can only hope, at least, for one more stare-down between the "Texas Rattlesnake" and the "Great One."

From the catchphrases to the World Titles to the big time feel every time the Rock entered the arena, the Rock was at worst the second biggest star of the Attitude Era, which drew the biggest ratings for the WWF/E. Those days are long since gone, but when the Rock returned from 2011-2013, he showed that he was still able to connect with the vast majority of the audience, become WWE Champion again, and pass the torch.

The Rock was the complete package, especially in the way he worked on movies and returned to WWE during his early years as an action star, then continued to work on movies, yet maintained a fairly steady schedule when returning, especially in the build for Wrestlemania 29. And despite tearing his hernia and needing emergency surgery, despite having to miss Wrestlemania 30, The Rock hasn't ruled out returning once again for Wrestlemania 31.

The question is, did the Rock "Bring It" enough over the course of a relatively short career in comparison to the other two to earn himself a place in the Wrestlezone Hall of Fame? Now's your chance to decide.

Undertaker, Rock, Sting. Three very different superstars, with one very important thing in common: Their passion for the business, and their ability to remain true to characters of great talent over the length of their careers.
Old 03-11-2014, 06:31 PM
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I have to say it surprises me that Undertaker is beating the Rock. I imagined Sting would be the last horse in this race, he simply wasn't a huge draw and has never really been "the guy". But outside of one day a year, the same can be said for Undertaker, can't it?

Undertaker and the Rock competed during the same era, and the Rock was far and away a bigger draw and bigger star during that time. Rock was competing with Austin for top dog the entire time, a firm #2 at worst. Undertaker? He was certainly behind Austin and Rock during that time period, and he certainly fell behind HHH as well. Because of an epic feud that truly lasted years with Austin, and ended the Attitude Era as well it could be argued that Vince McMahon, a non-wrestler, was positioned as a bigger star then the Undertaker was during the Attitude Era as well.

As for the Era they competed in of hot potato with the titles, The Rock won nine championships during the time he and Undertaker competed together, while the Undertaker won only three. It's not even close in that regard.

And yes, Undertaker has something possibly more important the titles, that being the Streak. But during the time Rock and Undertaker wrestled on the same Wrestlemania card, the Rock main-evented four Wrestlemania's, while Undertaker did none. His star, however bright, his match, however big, were both simply not big or bright enough to eclipse those of the Rock. Undertaker is a worthy candidate, and against any other opponent, he should probably get in. But not against the Rock, who is the biggest star from that era not in the Wrestlezone Hall of Fame.

I believe this is an easy choice, and that choice here is the Rock.
Old 03-12-2014, 02:50 AM
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Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...Dirk is getting some looks on Smackdown...

I would like to point out that DaOne5000's vote shouldn't be allowed, since he's future endeavoured.

Sting and Undertaker are huge names, but the Rock has had bigger mainstream success and was more of a top guy than the other two.

Originally Posted by It's Damn Real! View Post
You can lower your guns. I promise, no one is going to kill you for it.

Last edited by Dirk : 03-12-2014 at 02:57 AM.
Old 03-12-2014, 12:31 PM
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This isn't even that hard, the Rock is the biggest star here and by far the most deserving to be in the HOF, that said all three deserve a chance to be in the HOF. I think that Taker is by far the most qualified though and that's saying a bit considering this being one of the best line ups for a qualifying HOF match.
Old 03-12-2014, 07:38 PM
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Sting was the franchise of WCW, I know people like to point out that he was rarely portrayed as the top guy but to the fans Sting was their number 1. Only John Cena has equaled his 4 PWI Most Popular Wrestler awards but, unlike Cena, Sting was winning this when there was two promotions to care about... and three of his victories came when WCW was a distant second. PLUS who else can claim multiple victories over Hulk Hogan (in fact the Immortal One is still to defeat the Icon) and he was always the guy who appeared to have the number of the the Dirtiest Player in the Game who dominated the NWA for the duration of the '80s. Sting was the top face in the company for over a year without wrestling or even talking.

The Rock? Are you guys joking? 6 years as a full time wrestler against a quarter century? Yes, he is a very famous actor but this is a wrestling Hall Of Fame and first consideration should be contribution to the squared circle. Mr Johnson is not in the same league as the Stinger in that regard.

The Undertaker? If the argument against Sting is that he wasn't the top guy in WCW enough, then the same argument goes double for the Dead Man! When was 'Taker ever portrayed as the top guy? Hogan, Macho, Warrior, Hart, Michaels, Austin, Rock, Trips, Lesnar, Cena, Edge, Orton - all have been portrayed as being the face of the WWF/ WWe/ SmackDown ahead of the Undertaker. The only time he (occasionally) gets the headline treatment is on the run up to WrestleMania and even that is dependent on the other main events.

Sting maintained interest in WCW when their stars were all leaving for the WWF. He was the main guy during the period that WCW was beating the WWF. He's the one guy that Vince McMahon wanted for year after year after year. I'm sorry, but to me, he is far more deserving than a guy whose career was a relative flash in the pan and another who spent the first half of his WWF career as a support player and the second half only really relevant one day a year.
Old 03-13-2014, 10:31 AM
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Let me ask a question to anyone who buys into the "mystique" of the Streak... Can anyone remember a time when The Undertaker was the focal point of a Wrestlemania? Of any Wrestlemanias? Because to me, it appears as though The Undertaker has always been an attraction, but never an actual draw, himself. And no event proves that point perfectly.

Allow me to demonstrate;

Wrestlemania VII: Undertaker versus Jimmy Snuka. Unless there was some implicit, very subtle storyline of Death versus Murder, then this was just a throwaway match to get the big stiff guy on the card. 0-1, but definitely understandable.

Wrestlemania VIII: Undertaker versus Jake Roberts. Let's just go ahead and say no, but he's moving up the card. 0-2

IX: Giant Gonzales. 0-3, and how in the actual fuck did Harvey Whippleman get work in the WWE for seemingly forever?

XI: King Kong Bundy. Undie jobs out to LT, and Pam Anderson's tits. 0-4.

XII: Diesel. Here you see Taker actually in the semi, and certainly a factor at the biggest show of the year. Just, you know, a much lesser deal than Shawn Michaels. And when you're less of a draw than HB-Shizzle? Bad times. 0-5.

XIII: Here's where you can make your argument, against Sid for the WWF Title. Revisionist history will show that the big event of this Wrestlemania was the double turn that would launch the Attitude Era, mainly because Sid and Taker was atrocious (It took all of my willpower to stop myself from saying shit, and making an awful pun/wordplay joke). But give the devil his due, this was legitimately the main storyline of Wrestlemania, and it involved Taker. 1-6.

(Editor's Note; not that it really matters, but it does. This just so happens to be the Wrestlemania where the following things happened;
  • This is the first and only Wrestlemania to not sell out.
  • It has the distinction of being the lowest buyrate for a Wrestlemania ever.
  • Speaking of that buyrate, it also happens to be the only Wrestlemania to be outdrawn by motherfucking Uncensored.

So Undie's got that going for him, too.)

XIV: Lol, nope. While the Kane feud was certainly prominent, the big story is Austin. 1-7.

XV: Austin again, this time with a new face. Guy named Flex Kavana. Dude looks like a cunt, but has skills. Taker gets stuck lynching Bossman. 1-8.

XVI: Nowhere to be found, but there's that Flex feller again, in the main event.

XVII: Semi-main, against The Game, in that match we all shouldn't remember. Meanwhile, Rock and Austin are again the big storyline. Undie is 1-9, and that Rocky feller seems like a much bigger deal, headlining the last three Wrestlemanias.

X8: I always hated this stupid way of writing it. Fuck, it's XVIII. Anyway, Undertaker is in the mid card, against Ric Flair. Meanwhile, Rock's busy having a match of icons with Hulk fucking Hogan. I'll be fair though, and I won't count it, because while we all know how big a deal that was, apparently Triple H didn't, and found him and Stephanie's meat suit more compelling. 1-10

So, sure, Rock's stuck at three. Still more than Taker, in, what, half the time?

XIX: Who did Taker face again? I don't even know, don't care. Rock is facing Austin in the ending match of their classic trilogy. Taker's 1-11, and I think it's fair to say his involvement in Wrestlemanias, at least when compared to The Rock, pales in comparison.

XX: Kane. Maybe I should count it because Chris Benoit doesn't exist anymore. Meh. 1-12.

XXI: Randy Orton. This was the show all about Cena and Batista. So yeah, sorry Undie. But I guess it's better than Kane, so, progress? 1-13.

XXII: Mark Henry. I'll be so happy when Undertaker retires, and I never have to see another casket match again. 1-14.

XXIII: If you want to count Batista, I'm not going to quibble. But all that show was about was Cena/Michaels, and McMahon/Trump. You're an idiot if you think otherwise, but who am I to stop you from being an idiot? A man of logic, that's who: 1-15.

XXIV: This was all about Ric Flair retiring, and nothing else. A circle jerk for Ric Flair, and WWE. Like every Mania should be. 1-16, but Taker gets points for main eventing a show he had no business main eventing.

XXV: Hunter/Orton. You could argue Shawn/Taker, but that's revisionist history at its best. WWE poured it's heart and soul into making Hunter/Orton a thing, and it flopped, as it always has, and always will. 1-17, but great match.

XXVI: Shawn and Taker. This one was legitimately all about these two, and was great. I won't even mention it was all really about Shawn's career, and Taker was the big imposing guy with the Streak. 2-18.

XXVII: Uh oh, there's that Rock again. Triple H and Taker was a big deal, but surely not as big as The Rock just returning. The Rock returning, not even wrestling, trumps Deadman. 2-19.

XXVIII: Once again, Triple H is in Rock's shadow... More quietly, so is Taker. 2-20.

XXXIV: Great match with CM Punk, still in The Rock's shadow. 2-21.

I won't try to get into the difficulty that is the Brock Lesnar match, but I think I've made my point. The Streak is very telling of Taker's career. Protected by booking, always made to be somewhat of a deal, but rarely the prominent star of the company. Certainly a great career, and Hall of Fame credentials... Just not on this ballot.

Sting is very much the same way. Very much a guy who was always there to be booked strong, but when a better, shinier option came across, they went with that guy. Hogan, Goldberg, whoever was around that was better for business than Sting. The only place I can think of that didn't do that to him is TNA, and I sure as shit am not voting in Sting on his TNA run.

The Rock is probably the third or fourth most lucrative wrestler for the WWE of all time, behind Hogan, Austin, and maybe Cena. Cena would have actually been a pretty interesting case for this ballot, and you could argue deserves it more than Rock even. But the Rock is the elite tier, the kind who will always move the meter, and do terrific business. The fact that he can leave for so long, and still pop the massive buyrates for Wrestlemania 28 and 29 is a testament to just how big a star the guy is. While he's certainly not the biggest star in wrestling, he's definitely in that tier that gets precedence over everyone else not named Hogan or Austin.

That includes Taker and Sting.

Originally Posted by klunderbunker View Post
there are occasions where violence against women is the right course of action.
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
I am a bottomless pit of wad.
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