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  #11  
Old 01-25-2013, 12:12 PM
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klunderbunker klunderbunker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiku Hogan View Post
The AWA run. Hulk was popular before he got to Vince, sure, but when Vince saw Hulk, (and let's not get it twisted, Hogan in the AWA is different from Hogan in the WWF) he made certain tweaks to the character. And you really mean to tell me that the Hulk Hogan character wasn't shaped at all by This?

You mean to tell me you don't see the origins of the Hulk Hogan character in this promo?



And if I really want to get picky, and I think I will, you know who that actually sounds a little like, to me?



Let's call a spade a spade, Hogan grew up in Tampa.In fact, as Hogan admits in his book, My Life Outside the Ring, Hogan idolized both Dusty and Billy Graham growing up

I'm not going to tell you that without Dusty and Billy, there is no Hulk Hogan, but I will tell you that character would be very, very different without them. Dusty was Hogan's muse, in a lot of ways, just like Billy Graham and Jesse Ventura
Hogan has also said that:

He was offered a spot in Metallica
Andre weighed anywhere from 500 to 750lbs
Andre died a few days after the Wrestlemania III match

I'm not sure I'd buy what Hogan was saying if he said my name was KB.


Quote:
Yes, yes, Don Owen and the gang back in Portland, I know. I think you're vastly underrating the California region at the time. Ray Stevens is one of the greatest draws of all time, Freedie Blassie was huge there. Granted, he was a little before Piper's time, but it isn't as though the West Coast was devoid of wrestling; if anything, it's actually more comparable to JCP and Florida got huge, perhaps the most charismatic star in wrestling. And make no mistake about it, Hogan would have been very aware of Dusty.
I know he was aware of him, but you mentioned the Northeast being the main place for being a draw. Dusty was already performing there long before Piper, which is a big reason why he's higher up on that list. The west coast was very different back in that era.

Quote:
Oh, and just so we can be clear, if I'm correct, Jesse also spent a good amount of time, non?
A good deal of time where?

Granted, which is fair, but Orndorff does show to have legs after his feud with Piper

Not exactly. He has a feud with Hogan who could carry ANYONE to big money then he was gone for awhile then he had a quick feud with Rick Rude and then he semi-retired. That's not proving much.

Would you take into consideration my ideas of Jim Londos, Lonnie Mayne, and The Crusher, too?

Don't push it.


Granted, no arguments here.


Quote:
Yes, because it wasn't like there was a payoff to come from an angle where a group of four rebellious heels, oh, I don't know, broke his ankle or nothing.

It was the main event of Starrcade and Flair wound up getting the title back. Shouldn't that have been the blowoff already? You don't do something like that for the biggest show of the year.

Quote:
I want for you and I both to be on the same page here, so I want to make sure we agree on this; earlier, you state that for Hogan to get so huge, he needed Piper. The heel needs a worthy face to rise to the top, we agree. And Piper was more than worthy; together, he and Hogan did monster business.

From there, can we agree that the opposite must be equally true, that a heel needs a quality face to play off of, right?
Not always, no. A top heel can play off the crowd and be hated very easily.

Quote:
If we can agree on all of the above, then we can both agree Dusty had a lot to do with getting the Four Horsemen over. And after all, that is just the Four Horsemen. You know, set the standard for all stables after them, no big deal, right? It isn't as though that would have a lasting effect on professional wrestling.
To an extent yes but there were a lot of other people feuding with them too that had a lot to do with it. The Road Warriors and Magnum TA being right up there.

Quote:
Yes, because it wasn't like there was a catastrophic injury to the guy that was going to become face of the NWA and JCP around this time, right?

Say what you will, but Dusty did what he had to do, partially because he had the book, but also because that whole Magnum TA was going to be the biggest face ever thing didn't exactly pan out. And with a talent pool that was getting thinner and thinner as more talent left for the WWF, Dusty did what he had to do, and went with someone that was a proven draw. Sting wasn't ready yet, Steamboat was still in the WWF, what did you want him to do?

I won't sit here and tell you Dusty was the best booker in the world; he wasn't. The Dusty Finish sucks, to this day. What am I telling you that Dusty was throwing rocks at a man with a machine gun, and was probably in over his head.
Luger would have been a good candidate, as would Nikita Koloff. They would have done fine with either guy.

I'm assuming you know the reason I bolded that sentence.



Quote:
1. He beat the Mountie. The lesser of the Rougeau's. Let's not make this more than it was, this was because Bret hadn't renewed his contract with the WWF, so the WWF took the belt off him, and wanted to keep it on someone until Bret could take it back.
A title win is a title win. Hogan beat Iron Sheik for his first title. That's not saying much.

Quote:
2. If we're using that argument, Dusty got Dustin over in WCW
I believe you're trying to say he got him into WCW. Over.....eh maybe but it was hardly a rousing success.

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3. Not to sound like a snob; but do you know how easy it is to have a great performance in the Rumble? Greg Valentine did it, of all people.
Why are you sounding surprised that a ring technician and one of the better in ring workers ever had a good performance in a match? Another great performance he had in the ring: against Roddy Piper of all people.

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And do you admit that most of these matches absolutely stunk?
Most yes, but certainly not all of them.

Quote:
No, wait, I'm sorry; I'll do that for the both of us.

In 1994, Klunderbunker said of Lawler/Piper



In 1996, Klunderbunker said of Piper/Goldust;



He then said of Hogan/Piper:



In said Superbrawl 1997, Klunderbunker said;



Have I made my point?
Not exactly. As you mentioned earlier, the matches didn't have to be good if they were drawing money, and I can assure you those last two did.



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Can you really call it longevity when by his own admission, Piper could barely walk?
Yeah I'm pretty sure I can.


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While Dusty had about four more years doing consistent business, when Roddy dropped off the face of the Earth
I wouldn't call making They Live dropping off the face of the earth.

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While Dusty influenced the greatest face of all time, was influential in getting over the greatest stable of all time, and became a pioneer in the changing landscape of professional wrestling.
Do you really want to get into the amount of people that Roddy Piper influenced and how many people emulate him through things like Piper's Pit?

Quote:
Do you want to look back at the scores you just gave?
Not really, as Dusty's were just as bad.
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Originally Posted by klunderbunker
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2013, 10:09 PM
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To me a Hall of Fame in wrestling isn't about title wins or any of that jazz... It's about creating memories that last forever...

I have a helluva lot more memories of Roddy Piper than I do of Dusty Rhodes or Eddie Guerrero. Piper's run back in the 80's was almost untouchable. He was controversial when he needed to be. He was funny when he needed to be. He could make you angry as hell one minute and have you laughing the next.

Aside from being apart of one of the biggest Main Events in wrestling history, he also branched out into Hollywood and was fairly successful which gave credit to his ability to draw.

Dusty may have had more title wins and better ring work, but Piper is much more memorable to the majority of people.

Roddy Piper is a for-sure Hall of Fame member.

As far as group one is concerned.. it's hard to choose between J.R. and Heenan. I would lean more toward Heenan for his versatility and being a draw. Let's be honest... nobody has ever bought a ticket to see Jim Ross at a show. But Heenan? People used to pay to see him get his ass kicked and that alone does it for me.

Heenan and Piper.

Last edited by AhSpicyDrop : 01-25-2013 at 10:12 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:26 AM
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I have to go with Dusty on this one. Guerrero is one of my favorite workers ever but he just doesn't have the impact to get in this early. Piper accomplished next to nothing in his career other than a feud with Hogan. Hogan could have went out and yelled at a stick every saturday morning and drew big numbers. Dusty on the other hand gave Ric Flair his main event rub, and continued to draw all over the country in much smaller arenas than piper had when he was feuding with Hogan.

You cant take Roddy Piper over a three time world champion who not only feuded with damn near everyone in the business but drew money with them as well. It just doesn't make sense. Piper is a glorified mid carder who gets way to much credit. He's sort of like the Zach Ryder of his day seeing as how all of the fans loved him he feuded with the top guys for a while and before you knew it he was back down in the mid card where he belonged.

When push comes to shove You have to take Dusty every time. He out shines Piper as a draw, on the microphone, and their really not that far apart in the ring.

Saying Dusty isn't on of the best ever because of his lacking in the ring is like saying Hogan isn't one of the best ever. You can't because it's just stupid.

Case Closed
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PsychoBlack View Post
I have to go with Dusty on this one. Guerrero is one of my favorite workers ever but he just doesn't have the impact to get in this early. Piper accomplished next to nothing in his career other than a feud with Hogan. Hogan could have went out and yelled at a stick every saturday morning and drew big numbers. Dusty on the other hand gave Ric Flair his main event rub, and continued to draw all over the country in much smaller arenas than piper had when he was feuding with Hogan.

You cant take Roddy Piper over a three time world champion who not only feuded with damn near everyone in the business but drew money with them as well. It just doesn't make sense. Piper is a glorified mid carder who gets way to much credit. He's sort of like the Zach Ryder of his day seeing as how all of the fans loved him he feuded with the top guys for a while and before you knew it he was back down in the mid card where he belonged.

When push comes to shove You have to take Dusty every time. He out shines Piper as a draw, on the microphone, and their really not that far apart in the ring.

Saying Dusty isn't on of the best ever because of his lacking in the ring is like saying Hogan isn't one of the best ever. You can't because it's just stupid.

Case Closed
....WOW. Where do I even start?

First and foremost, Dusty did indeed drop the NWA World Title to Flair who promptly.....didn't do much with it. He did indeed hold the title for over a year but to suggest his career was launched to the level it was before his match with Race in Greensboro is flat out wrong. It was Race that passed the torch to Flair, not Dusty.

Quote:
You cant take Roddy Piper over a three time world champion
So in other words, we should take Sheamus, a three time world champion, over guys like Ted DiBiase who won zero? Dusty's title reigns were barely anything with his longest not even being three months. This was back in the days when you would see reigns go on for years at a time. Dusty's world title reigns mean very little whatsoever.

Quote:
Piper is a glorified mid carder who gets way to much credit. He's sort of like the Zach Ryder of his day seeing as how all of the fans loved him he feuded with the top guys for a while and before you knew it he was back down in the mid card where he belonged.
.......WOW again. Piper was a top guy from the time he debuted in Mid-Atlantic, feuding with people like Flair, Brisco and Valentine. He had one of the featured matches at the first Starrcade and was brought in to the WWF and put into one of the top feuds. To suggest that Piper wasn't one of the higher level guys shows that you indeed know very little about what you're talking about.

Quote:
Saying Dusty isn't on of the best ever because of his lacking in the ring is like saying Hogan isn't one of the best ever. You can't because it's just stupid.
Aside from Hogan being a rather good in ring worker, just like Piper, I have no idea what this has to do with anything. Dusty was pretty horrible in the ring while Piper could brawl quite well when he had to, despite most of his work being done on the mic.

There's a case to be made for Dusty, but it's not this one.
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Originally Posted by klunderbunker
Yes
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Originally Posted by klunderbunker
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Originally Posted by klunderbunker
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  #15  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:29 AM
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I guess I don't really understand why you would think that Piper was a glorified midcarder. I cannot fathom the comparison to Ryder. Ryder never feuded with the top guy in the company for nearly two years and main evented multiple PPV's. It could be your age, and the fact that you did not grow up in that era. Piper helped solidify Hulkamania. I have heard the argument that it would not have mattered who faced Hogan at that time, but I disagree with that. No doubt Hulkamania would have been huge no matter what but Piper played his role to perfection. He was fucking hated. In fact he is one of my favorite heels from the 80s.

I am not taking anything away from Dusty, as he was quite the presence. But you don't need a title to be considered one of the all time greats. The titles were not handed out like candy back then. Also, Piper didn't need the belt.

Finally, I even credit his WCW run. Go back and watch. The fans came unglued when he came out. He helped put butts in the seats and no doubt raised some revenue for WCW. And no midcarder is going to main event WrestleMania and Starrcade.
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  #16  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:28 AM
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In the first group you have the greatest manager and one of the greatest mouthpieces ever. You have the voice of WWE and is 1A/1B in the alltime greatest annoncers of alltime with Gordie Solie. I posted in the Arn Anderson formun about his passion and no announcer has the passion JR does. Faboulus Moolah is the greatest female wrestler and I mean wrestler ever. This is a hard group. I will have to go with JR simply for his passion for the business.
2nd group is only two choices Dusty or Piper. I think Piper is hugely underrated. He is one of the greatest bad guys ever. He and the horsemen were the only bad guys that still got alot of cheers. However I have to go with Dusty. Dusty had on of the greatest rivalries ever with Flair. He could take six or seven months off with Flair and then they would pick the feud right back up. One poster put he wasn't the best in ring. I disagree back in his day you went 45 minutes to 60 minutes most matches. That is unheard of these days. You might see six matches a year over 30 minutes. During Flair/Dusty, Dusty/Tully they told stories in the ring not just out.

So my votes go to JR/Dusty. I hope Moolah gets another chance. She truly deserves to be in but not ahead of JR and it's tough between her and Bobby.
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  #17  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klunderbunker View Post
Hogan has also said that:

He was offered a spot in Metallica
Andre weighed anywhere from 500 to 750lbs
Andre died a few days after the Wrestlemania III match

I'm not sure I'd buy what Hogan was saying if he said my name was KB.
Jesus Christ. Ok, fine.

A reading from the book of Flair; mind you, To Be The Man;

Quote:
“I was infatuated with being like Dusty.
And, if I may continue;

Quote:
“Just before I had my first match, I asked Verne if I could be “Rambling” Ricky Rhodes, Dusty’s “brother.” I was ready to curl my hair like Dusty’s and everything
This goes on for a good two more pages, so I'll spare you. Of course, Flair's word is just as no good, right

Both the top face in the history of wrestling and the top heel in wrestling have come out and stated they wanted to be like Dusty Rhodes. Ric Flair wanted his gimmick to be Dusty Rhodes' brother. If you're really going to try and deflect that Dusty didn't have a major impact on the way professional wrestling is, I'm willing to go on record to say

1. You have an irrational hatred of Dusty Rhodes, potentially leading from a botched snapmare.

2. You really don't get wrestling that much.

I'm much, much more inclined to go with the former.



Quote:
know he was aware of him, but you mentioned the Northeast being the main place for being a draw. Dusty was already performing there long before Piper, which is a big reason why he's higher up on that list. The west coast was very different back in that era.
1. I'm assuming you mean JCP, not the WWF when you say that. Otherwise, I don't know what to say.

2. True, but again, it isn't like the West wasn't all that bad off. Was it not making as much money? Perhaps, but Piper also wasn't exactly a drawing name in Portland at the time. Now, we can argue that he should have been, but he wasn't.

Quote:
A good deal of time where?

Portland. My apologies, I should have been more clear on that.
Granted, which is fair, but Orndorff does show to have legs after his feud with Piper

Quote:
Not exactly. He has a feud with Hogan who could carry ANYONE to big money then he was gone for awhile then he had a quick feud with Rick Rude and then he semi-retired. That's not proving much.
Why would you just admit Hogan could draw anyone to big money like that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to tell you that's the case with Piper, i don't believe that. But why would you just say it like that?




Quote:
It was the main event of Starrcade and Flair wound up getting the title back. Shouldn't that have been the blowoff already? You don't do something like that for the biggest show of the year.
That's booking, not Dusty as a wrestler. Dusty as a wrestler, and Flair, drew a big ol' buyrate for that event, and drew a crapload of money.

Quote:
Not always, no. A top heel can play off the crowd and be hated very easily.
Triple H got people to hate his guts in 2003; you wanna argue that worked?


Quote:
To an extent yes but there were a lot of other people feuding with them too that had a lot to do with it. The Road Warriors and Magnum TA being right up there.
Which led to War Games, again a Dusty creation, and one of the biggest staples of the NWA and WCW




Quote:
Luger would have been a good candidate, as would Nikita Koloff. They would have done fine with either guy.
Luger I could buy, but he probably would have fizzled as champ, like he always seems to, because he can't work a good match. Koloff was never world champion material.

Quote:
I'm assuming you know the reason I bolded that sentence.

Like I assume you know it wasn't an accident.


Quote:
title win is a title win. Hogan beat Iron Sheik for his first title. That's not saying much.
Sheik is vastly underrated for getting people to hate him... But this isn't about the Sheik. And, there is a big difference between winning the world title, and a secondary belt, especially in the context you're giving

Quote:
I believe you're trying to say he got him into WCW. Over.....eh maybe but it was hardly a rousing success.
And Virgil was?



Quote:
hy are you sounding surprised that a ring technician and one of the better in ring workers ever had a good performance in a match? Another great performance he had in the ring: against Roddy Piper of all people.
Probably out of my irrational hate of Greg Valentine. Such a bland guy.


Quote:
Do you really want to get into the amount of people that Roddy Piper influenced and how many people emulate him through things like Piper's Pit?
Sure, especially when I can argue Dusty was just as influential, if not more, and was a draw for longer, the actual top guy in his territory, something Piper never was, and had just as long a lasting legacy
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  #18  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Haiku Hogan View Post
Jesus Christ. Ok, fine.

A reading from the book of Flair; mind you, To Be The Man;



And, if I may continue;



This goes on for a good two more pages, so I'll spare you. Of course, Flair's word is just as no good, right

Both the top face in the history of wrestling and the top heel in wrestling have come out and stated they wanted to be like Dusty Rhodes. Ric Flair wanted his gimmick to be Dusty Rhodes' brother. If you're really going to try and deflect that Dusty didn't have a major impact on the way professional wrestling is, I'm willing to go on record to say

1. You have an irrational hatred of Dusty Rhodes, potentially leading from a botched snapmare.

2. You really don't get wrestling that much.

I'm much, much more inclined to go with the former.
Well the more I read of your stuff the more impressed I am by you so I'm hoping you're going with #1.

I've heard this story as well and I have no doubt that it's true. What I do have a doubt of is your interpretation of it.

Back in the day, it was VERY common to have a wrestler come in and be billed as a relative of someone else. Hogan and Beefcake were billed as brothers, Ricky Steamboat took his name from a popular wrestler in the area named Sam Steamboat and was billed I think as his nephew or cousin, Shane Douglas debuted as Troy Orndorff, the nephew of Paul, Bruno Sammartino had a "cousin" that he brought in to the WWWF and I could go on and on.

The Rhodes gimmick was likely more a way for Flair to get over quickly rather than as a tribute to Rhodes.





Quote:
1. I'm assuming you mean JCP, not the WWF when you say that. Otherwise, I don't know what to say.
Actually no. Dusty was a semi-regular in the WWF at MSG in the late 70s. I've seen the matches. I believe his main feud was with Billy Graham.

Quote:
2. True, but again, it isn't like the West wasn't all that bad off. Was it not making as much money? Perhaps, but Piper also wasn't exactly a drawing name in Portland at the time. Now, we can argue that he should have been, but he wasn't.
You have to remember the West Coast was multiple territories. In the WWWF, they pretty much hit about five or six major cities in a row. With Piper it was LA and then a few other towns. In the northwest it was Portland, Seattle and that's it. They're WAY smaller circuits out there and got nowhere near the national attention that Vince and company got.




Quote:
Portland. My apologies, I should have been more clear on that.
Granted, which is fair, but Orndorff does show to have legs after his feud with Piper
Some yes, but make no mistake about it: without Piper in the first place, those legs wouldn't have been there. It was a HUGE rub from Piper.



Quote:
Why would you just admit Hogan could draw anyone to big money like that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to tell you that's the case with Piper, i don't believe that. But why would you just say it like that?
Because it's true. Hogan could draw money with anyone. As for drawing mainstream and national attention though, that only happened with Piper until it was decided that "three years to be a champion, that's a long time."




Quote:
That's booking, not Dusty as a wrestler. Dusty as a wrestler, and Flair, drew a big ol' buyrate for that event, and drew a crapload of money.
And the booking was done by whom?

Quote:
Triple H got people to hate his guts in 2003; you wanna argue that worked?
Actually he got them to hate his guts in 2000-2002. By 2003 he was the top heel already and on the downward side of his time on top. Very little of that hatred was as a result of 2003.


Quote:
Which led to War Games, again a Dusty creation, and one of the biggest staples of the NWA and WCW
Piper's antics led to Wrestlemania. Advantage: Canadian.

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Luger I could buy, but he probably would have fizzled as champ, like he always seems to, because he can't work a good match. Koloff was never world champion material.
At the time Koloff was. He had recently won the US Title from Magnum and then had a HUGE face turn after the car crash. He said something like "I weep for Magnum T.A. and the fans loved him for it. It would have worked for awhile. In the long term.....hard to say.


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Like I assume you know it wasn't an accident.
That's what I was hoping for kid.


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Sheik is vastly underrated for getting people to hate him... But this isn't about the Sheik. And, there is a big difference between winning the world title, and a secondary belt, especially in the context you're giving
This is true, but Piper winning his title was a huge deal as he never won anything before. it was a feel good moment.

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And Virgil was?
Ironically enough an inside joke at Dusty (real name Virgil) Runnels.

At the time he was a big success. Watch the 1991 Rumble and listen to the pop when he finally turns on DiBiase (again with the irony of having just fought Dusty and Dustin).





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Probably out of my irrational hate of Greg Valentine. Such a bland guy.
Once he got to the WWF he was. Before then though he was a big deal. Watch the dog collar match with Piper. It's a bloodbath.


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Sure, especially when I can argue Dusty was just as influential, if not more, and was a draw for longer, the actual top guy in his territory, something Piper never was, and had just as long a lasting legacy
Just as influential.....I'm not sure about that. Piper influenced a lot of guys in his own right. As for being a draw for longer, I don't remember Dusty being the winner of the main event of a show that got nearly 400,000 buys.
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:09 PM
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Con T. Con T. is offline
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Well the more I read of your stuff the more impressed I am by you so I'm hoping you're going with #1.
Anyone who watches as much wrestling as you, I respect as well, but let's do without the formalities

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I've heard this story as well and I have no doubt that it's true. What I do have a doubt of is your interpretation of it.
Do go on...

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Back in the day
Wait, wait, I'll stop you there; I love Ricky Steamboat, so I get the gimmick. Flair even goes into how he got the Nature Boy gimmick. That doesn't make it any less probable that Flair admired Dusty; if anything, Flair got that you make your name off the biggest star possible and work from there. It would be one thing if Flair said he respected Dusty; his exact words were infatuated and idolizes, so what can I take from that?

And, it isn't as though Flair is above criticizing others. Flair is heavily critical of Sammartino and Foley (though a tad incorrect), and is also critical of Dusty's booking; but we'll get to that.

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Actually no. Dusty was a semi-regular in the WWF at MSG in the late 70s. I've seen the matches. I believe his main feud was with Billy Graham.
True, but Dusty wasn't meant to be the guy in New York; that isn't because he wasn't talented, it was because he wasn't one of Vince McMahon Sr.'s guys.

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You have to remember the West Coast was multiple territories. In the WWWF, they pretty much hit about five or six major cities in a row. With Piper it was LA and then a few other towns. In the northwest it was Portland, Seattle and that's it. They're WAY smaller circuits out there and got nowhere near the national attention that Vince and company got.
But Dusty was in Florida and the Carolina's, which in their own right were kinda small teritorries, comparitively speaking.Yes, the passion was more fervent, but even in Florida, the only way to draw a "big"house was to be in Tampa or Miami.

Or for your name to be Dusty. Portland was smaller, but as you mentioned, Piper also had the ability to go to California, where at the least, San Fran was a hotbed for wrestling. LA and San Diego would be too far and not Piper's style of wrestling, but still

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Because it's true. Hogan could draw money with anyone. As for drawing mainstream and national attention though, that only happened with Piper until it was decided that "three years to be a champion, that's a long time."
I'm assuming you're referring to Andre with that, correct?

Not to negate what Piper did, but how much of that media attention also came from Mr. T, exactly?


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And the booking was done by whom?
If we excluded wrestlers based on booking, Hogan and Flair at the least would be thrown out of the Hall of Fame. Or need I remind you;

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“Ric Flair was every bit as bad on the booking side of things as he was great on the wrestling side of it.”
If Dusty were going in solely as a booker, you'd have a point; he isn't. And even if he were, Dusty's successes as a booker (Four Horsemen, War Games, Magnum TA, Starrcade, The Great American Bash) are respectable in their own right.


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Piper's antics led to Wrestlemania. Advantage: Canadian.
Dusty's booking led to Starrcade, which set the stage for Vince Jr. To see Wrestlemania would succeed in close circuit. Advantage; fat plumber man.


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At the time Koloff was. He had recently won the US Title from Magnum and then had a HUGE face turn after the car crash. He said something like "I weep for Magnum T.A. and the fans loved him for it. It would have worked for awhile. In the long term.....hard to say.
You know what I bolded this, right?


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This is true, but Piper winning his title was a huge deal as he never won anything before. it was a feel good moment.
The same way Christian's World Title win was


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At the time he was a big success. Watch the 1991 Rumble and listen to the pop when he finally turns on DiBiase (again with the irony of having just fought Dusty and Dustin).
And while this had been teased on TVs with Piper and Virgil on Superstars, I believe, don't you think that also got over so well because of how much people hated Dibiase?


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Just as influential.....I'm not sure about that. Piper influenced a lot of guys in his own right. As for being a draw for longer, I don't remember Dusty being the winner of the main event of a show that got nearly 400,000 buys.
Seeing as how without Starrcade ( which did a $963,000 gate, if I'm a right, a rousing success even in today's era) there may not be a Wrestlemania for Piper to fight on, I'm pretty sure I can say just as influential... It when The Rock refers to himself as the People's Champ, who exactly do you think he's channeling?

(Besides DDP of course)
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:49 PM
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THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
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Ah what the hell, I got time; I can't edit my first post, otherwise I'd add it there. But hey, we can only do what we can



first of all, I'd love everyone to take a look at the sig this man has... Yes, that isn't a biased man, in the slightest.

Second off, that bigger impact line is utter horseshit. Without Dusty (as well as other pioneers like Jesse and Billy Graham), Piper doesn't get his podium to give off all these famous rants you're speaking of. You're speaking in terms that says Dusty needed the WWF to achieve his fame; he didn't. He was famous long before Wrestlemania, and had left his mark long before Wrestlemania was even a thought.

For that matter, let me add this; that Wrestlemania you speak of? Would you like to know its predecessor? That would be Starrcade, the first closed circuit wrestling event. Wanna guess who was pretty damn instrumental at getting that off the ground?




As it pertains to Group 1, I've finally decided I'm going with JR, not only because of his commentating, but that he also put together the pieces of the Attitude Era. Jim Ross changed the entire landscape of wrestling, and all he needed to do was acquire three talents; Stone Cold, The Rock, and Mick Foley. Heenan was a great talent, who helped draw some sizable money, both in the AWA and the WWF. Ross not only sold PPV buys just on his ability to sell a PPV to the audience, but he also recruited the talents that he would sell, and helped to launch the most lucrative era in wrestling.

Oh, and fuck off with Moolah. Just like Eddie, is there any reason why she's on the ballot?

I digress, brother;
Jim Ross gets the second nod
But it was quite hard
So I grew up watching more WWF than JCP? doesn't make any difference.

You make reference to Starrcade and yes it was the first closed circuit event, that had no mainstream coverage and was barely considered a success. However "over" or much of a "draw" Dusty was, he wasn't even on the damn card but oh yeah, Piper was... so Piper was in a major bout on the first Starrcade AND the main event of first Wrestlemania, does that make Dusty a great booker or Vince a better one?...

To say Dusty was famous is an overstatement, he was a known wrestler to fans but he did not have celebrity in the way Hogan, Lawler or Roddy Piper did. Most mainstream non-wrestling fans would have picked out Ox Baker as a famous wrestler before they did Dusty cos of Escape From New York.... Was it a problem with Dusty or the NWA guys in particular? That's harder to say cos the NWA was so insular they never courted the mainstream so when they were playing catchup to Vince and wanted help, the media didn't care about the guys like Dusty that they were shilling.

But again, if Dusty was SO over, then why was he not on that first show and even a year later he didn't take the fall for Flair he went the "cut" route... If Dusty was so famous and important surely he would have done the favor for Flair as he was clearly "the guy" of the time the NWA wanted.

Piper was able to get onto MTV, into movies and into the public consciousness as the man who antagonized the most famous TV actor of his day into appearing in a match "refereed" by Ali on a Pay Per View, and a "boxing match" the following year. That my friend is impact, and more than Dusty ever achieved for all his titles and self booked success. Piper is remembered for more than Polka dots by the casual fan... however good Dusty was in the ring, he never transenced to the next level like Piper, Hogan, Savage and others did.
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