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  #101  
Old 01-31-2017, 11:48 AM
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TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP is offline
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@Makaveli31

Calling a spade a spade, Bret was a tremendous wrestler and a decent interview. (Basically William Regal if he didn't look 40 years older than he was.) That said, the whining got old after a while, and there was little anyone could do with that in WCW by the time he got there. He may have been the hottest name in the business when he got there but how do you keep a 'hard done by' guy over? You can't because it gets old fast.

I still don't believe for a second that McMahon ever promised Bret that Hogan would put him over for the title. There was nothing there storyline wise that would have led to that at that point and Bret just wasn't going to mesh well for a well booked title match. Yoko was a draw at that point and Hogan and Yoko worked and was a draw when Hogan put him over. (And he put Yoko over better than he put Brock over and that's saying something.)

There was little from the WWF's New Generation era that drew after Hogan. Lex, HBK, Diesel, Bret, none of them were a draw. Razor and Taker were the ONLY ones in the company that were serious draws at that point, and to a lesser extent Hennig. The only time Bret was truly over was in Europe and the Canada vs USA angle. I respect that Bret wanted to be the man but he handled the fact that he couldn't be very badly, knowing full well that Bret Hart can never truly be the man in a winning wrestling company for the Monday Night Wars. He is only the man when he's in a wrestling company devoid of true top stars to the point that Bret would get his fill by default. In a good wrestling company, Bret being the guy would never have happened.

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  #102  
Old 01-31-2017, 01:18 PM
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Calling a spade a spade, Bret was a tremendous wrestler and a decent interview. (Basically William Regal if he didn't look 40 years older than he was.) That said, the whining got old after a while, and there was little anyone could do with that in WCW by the time he got there. He may have been the hottest name in the business when he got there but how do you keep a 'hard done by' guy over? You can't because it gets old fast.
William Regal?!? LOL first off Regal had no where near the charisma Bret, had no where near the caliber of matches Bret had and Bret (when he had an issue to talk about instead of rambling) was a better talker than Regal. Another comparison that boggles the mind. There were ALOT of problems with Bret's WCW run not just the whining (which did get old) but again he was told to do this by Bischoff. If you read Bret's book, Bischoff told him to rip the fans (when the fans were chanting Bret's name ironically) and play the blame game not Bret. Now, you can criticize Bret for not coming up with any new ideas for his character that's fair but he will say (and he has stated) that all of his ideas were shot down by Bischoff, Nash, and Hogan.

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I still don't believe for a second that McMahon ever promised Bret that Hogan would put him over for the title. There was nothing there storyline wise that would have led to that at that point and Bret just wasn't going to mesh well for a well booked title match. Yoko was a draw at that point and Hogan and Yoko worked and was a draw when Hogan put him over. (And he put Yoko over better than he put Brock over and that's saying something.)
It was a head game between Hogan and McMahon and Bret was caught in the middle. Vince told Bret one thing (probably to get him to drop the strap to Yoko without any ill-feelings) and told Hogan another. Vince was known for doing that. Bret says he was told one thing by McMahon and when confronted McMahon flat out lied and said "it was never going to be a World title match." That was according to Bret's book.

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There was little from the WWF's New Generation era that drew after Hogan. Lex, HBK, Diesel, Bret, none of them were a draw. Razor and Taker were the ONLY ones in the company that were serious draws at that point, and to a lesser extent Hennig. The only time Bret was truly over was in Europe and the Canada vs USA angle. I respect that Bret wanted to be the man but he handled the fact that he couldn't be very badly, knowing full well that Bret Hart can never truly be the man in a winning wrestling company for the Monday Night Wars. He is only the man when he's in a wrestling company devoid of true top stars to the point that Bret would get his fill by default. In a good wrestling company, Bret being the guy would never have happened.
Hennig?!? When was he a draw? He barely wrestled during the New Generation Era. Razor and 'Taker were role players at that point. Prominent players but they weren't charged with "carrying the comapany."

The problem with the New Generation Era was Vince booked them like he did Hogan in the '80's The white meat All-American babyface. In the Attitude-starved '90's. We're talking MTV, grunge, gangsta rap, Pulp Fiction-era stuff and Vince had Lex in skimpy USA tights driving around in a bus?!? Diesel singing Christmas carols?!? Shawn with his boyhood dream touring the country with his 60 year old trainer Jose Lothario. It was enough to make you puke.

To me, Bret Hart was over. Was he Hogan, Austin or Rock? No. Was he Sammartino or Andre? No. Was he even Backlund? Debatable. But he lead the company during it's worst time financially abd creatively. If you're a Hall of Famer on a losing team you are still a Hall of Famer. He was still VERY over with the crowd. You just have to look at the matches and the kind of response he got. The proof is in the pudding. There were very few Bret matches that were boring or did not deliver. He brought it everyday.

You could argue that point. It's valid but if I was running a wrestling company I would rather have Bret on my team than the opposing teams. He would not necessarily be "the man' but he would always be a top star.
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  #103  
Old 02-02-2017, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by The Eternal Champion View Post
@Makaveli31

Calling a spade a spade, Bret was a tremendous wrestler and a decent interview. (Basically William Regal if he didn't look 40 years older than he was.) That said, the whining got old after a while, and there was little anyone could do with that in WCW by the time he got there. He may have been the hottest name in the business when he got there but how do you keep a 'hard done by' guy over? You can't because it gets old fast.

I still don't believe for a second that McMahon ever promised Bret that Hogan would put him over for the title. There was nothing there storyline wise that would have led to that at that point and Bret just wasn't going to mesh well for a well booked title match. Yoko was a draw at that point and Hogan and Yoko worked and was a draw when Hogan put him over. (And he put Yoko over better than he put Brock over and that's saying something.)

There was little from the WWF's New Generation era that drew after Hogan. Lex, HBK, Diesel, Bret, none of them were a draw. Razor and Taker were the ONLY ones in the company that were serious draws at that point, and to a lesser extent Hennig. The only time Bret was truly over was in Europe and the Canada vs USA angle. I respect that Bret wanted to be the man but he handled the fact that he couldn't be very badly, knowing full well that Bret Hart can never truly be the man in a winning wrestling company for the Monday Night Wars. He is only the man when he's in a wrestling company devoid of true top stars to the point that Bret would get his fill by default. In a good wrestling company, Bret being the guy would never have happened.
Hart like Regal? Genuinely one of the worst comparisons I've ever read. That is simply ridiculous.

Hart was huge all over the world except the USA in his 1992-96 years. He was huge in the UK and won German athlete of the year a couple of times (a legitimate award). He was popular in America, he wasn't Hogan or Austin, but still good enough to hold the belt on numerous occasions.

The 'whining' was part of his character through 1997. That wasn't the real person, at least in the beginning. Also your comments that Bret couldn't handle 'not being the main man very badly' is rubbish. He went out of his way to put Austin over, told HBK multiple times that he wanted a string of classic matches which would ultimately end in his hand being raised. Hart was the ideal company man.
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  #104  
Old 02-03-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by The Eternal Champion View Post
@Makaveli31

Calling a spade a spade, Bret was a tremendous wrestler and a decent interview. (Basically William Regal if he didn't look 40 years older than he was.) That said, the whining got old after a while, and there was little anyone could do with that in WCW by the time he got there. He may have been the hottest name in the business when he got there but how do you keep a 'hard done by' guy over? You can't because it gets old fast.

I still don't believe for a second that McMahon ever promised Bret that Hogan would put him over for the title. There was nothing there storyline wise that would have led to that at that point and Bret just wasn't going to mesh well for a well booked title match. Yoko was a draw at that point and Hogan and Yoko worked and was a draw when Hogan put him over. (And he put Yoko over better than he put Brock over and that's saying something.)

There was little from the WWF's New Generation era that drew after Hogan. Lex, HBK, Diesel, Bret, none of them were a draw. Razor and Taker were the ONLY ones in the company that were serious draws at that point, and to a lesser extent Hennig. The only time Bret was truly over was in Europe and the Canada vs USA angle. I respect that Bret wanted to be the man but he handled the fact that he couldn't be very badly, knowing full well that Bret Hart can never truly be the man in a winning wrestling company for the Monday Night Wars. He is only the man when he's in a wrestling company devoid of true top stars to the point that Bret would get his fill by default. In a good wrestling company, Bret being the guy would never have happened.
There were posters leaked advertising HOgan vs. Hart for Summerslam. Also I'm from Detroit(where Summerslam 93 took place) and it was advertised on the radio and TV as late as June to "come watch Hulk Hogan take on Bret the Hitman Hart". I'm sure Vince's plans were to have Hogan win but I don't doubt for a second that he told Hart that he was going over.

Also where does this not a draw come from? Bret's live gates always outdrew the other show that he wasn't on, PPV's headlined by Bret were always higher than the years without him, when Bret became a focal point of Raw regularly in 97(before that he would only be featured here and there) Raw put up their highest ratings ever to that point. Hell in 95 he was headlining house shows with Jean Pierre Lafit and they were outdrawing shows with the WWE title on them.

Even as bad as he was booked in WCW he was still drawing ratings for them. Meltzer breaks down quarter hour ratings and ratings for individual wrestlers. And in 98-99 Bret brought a plus 2.42 when he was on TV. Only Goldberg, Flair and Hogan were higher.

Also Meltzer breaks down all the gate receipts and merch sales and for the decade of the 90s the only wrestlers from WCW and WWE to draw more money than Hart were Flair and Hogan.

Last edited by agentmichaelscarn : 02-03-2017 at 12:03 AM.
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  #105  
Old 02-03-2017, 03:17 AM
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Also I just want to shoot down one more of the narratives that WWE always spouts. They say that "They couldn't risk WCW saying they signed the champ.". When Bret wears a wire for his meeting with Vince on Wrestling with Shadows, on the extended cut he specifically says "I can call Bischoff and tell him not to say anything on TV about signing me" and VInce says "Don't bother everybody already knows anyway." So Vince didn't give a shit about that, he knew that people wouldn't give a shit anyway, I mean WCW was heading towards their biggest PPV in their existence and their biggest match ever. He knew that the signing of Bret Hart was the least of their concerns.

It was just another excuse he used to justify what he did.
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  #106  
Old 02-07-2017, 11:11 AM
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And since we are going to bash the Clique for their backstage and personal issues, what about some of Bret Hart's old running buddies? Dynamite Kid, Davey Boy, and Piper were some of the biggest backstage assholes professional wrestling has ever seen, and the guys Bret rolled with were some of the biggest junkies professional wrestling has ever seen... that is why most of them have been dead and gone for a long time now already. Say what you want about Nash and Hall and their ways, but at least they're still alive and kicking. You can't say the same thing about most of Bret's old buddies.
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As for Hart's buddies on the road, he was closely associated with the likes of Don Murraco, Roddy Piper, and Dynamite Kid early on in his career. Those guys rank up there as some of the most notorious scum the business has ever seen. To a lesser extent, Curt Hennig and Hawk were also two guys who were pretty closely associated with Bret when they were in the WWE and both of those guys are dead too.
This thread is a joke, and you guys have done a pretty good job debunking this guy on his fantasies...

and he's done a pretty good job giving Hart everything he'd ever need to have a judge file a restraining order if he wants...

but these quotes here stood out to me and need to be addressed.

What the FUCK is wrong with you? You're so obsessed with talking shit about Hart that you have to resort to talking like this about the dead?

What makes Piper one of the most notorious pieces of scum that professional wrestling has ever seen? Muraco? Hawk? Smith?

Har, har, har. Look, the guys that Bret Hart called friends are all dead, and the ones that Michaels was friends with are still alive. Just goes to show what a piece of shit Hart was? The fuck type of logic is that?

Real classy talking about the dead like this. Real class act you are.
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  #107  
Old 02-09-2017, 10:05 AM
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This thread is a bit mental, the OP seems to have some serious issues but I'll give my take on it anyway.

The Montreal Screwjob happened because Vince McMahon, rightly, feared he had lost some influence and power in the locker room. For all intents and purposes, Bret's contract in 1996 gave him the most power a WWF wrestler ever had. He was paid Hogan money, big merchandise rights and he had reasonable creative control, as well as the use of the The Hitman name. That did not go unnoticed by guys like the Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Kevin Nash, who were pushing for similar contracts.

So, whats the best way to deal with that situation? Raise everyone up to Hart's level or destroy Hart? Bingo. Vince didn't need to do the screwjob to save the company from seeing Bret on Nitro with the belt, he needed to do the screwjob to show everyone he was still in charge.

Shawn was just a useful tool in getting to that point as the likes of Foley, Taker, Austin etc. wouldn't have gone through with it.
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