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  #11  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
Huh? Why do you care about complexities all of the sudden? Grown women don't understand all the complexities of pregnancy. Should we stop that?
I genuinely don't even know where to start with that nonsense. Since when have I only 'all of a sudden' cared about complexities? Since when did I say uninformed women should get pregnant? For the record, I don't think an 8 year old should get pregnant, either.

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You're logic here sounds reasonable on th surface but it is just a case of you having no expertise on the topic and you just trying to sound thoughtful.
Actually, I do have 'expertise' on the subject, as a nurse who has a) studied the condition, b) gained a degree and c) cared for people both physically and emotionally pre and post operatively, but please, continue to explain how I'm 'trying to sound thoughtful' with 'no expertise'

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But a professional may be able to study the situation and create a medical diagnosis that is in the best interest of the child.
Except that only a few doctors will even diagnose a young child with this 'condition' because of everything I posted originally. And there is always controversy around those that do - for the reasons I posted originally.

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Enjoying activities that are stereotypical of children who have different parts than you is not the same as feeling like you are a different gender.
I agree completely. I disagree that at 8 years old, you can grasp what it MEANS to feel like you are a different gender - and then be able to adequately explain those feelings in a way that would mean a solid diagnosis can be made.

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Poor kid. Getting to live life the way he wants and not feeling bad about himself.
Please stop assuming that my (not even negative) post is in some way discriminating against this child and stating he should feel bad about himself - your entire argument is based on nonsense you've assumed I think, know or feel. Let the child do what he wants to do. Don't put pressure on him.
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2016, 04:09 PM
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I think a lot of people assume since they cannot understand why people want to be transgender then there must be something wrong with the person. I compare this to my ADD. Without my pill, I cannot pay attention no matter how much I want to. ADD isn't fun. I don't want to have it. I want to pay attention. I just can't. If you do not have ADD, I would not expect you to completely understand why I can't pay attention. My pill fixes my ADD and I feel normal.

That is how I feel about transgender people. I don't understand it but that does not mean what they feel is not real. I am not qualified to say when a child can completely grasp their gender identity. None of us are. We are not that person and (I assume) we are not qualified psychologists. Nurses and doctors are not qualified on this subject. Psychology takes years of focused learning and training. It would be like a nurse claiming they can be a doctor. Some stuff overlaps but not even close to making one qualified. Everything should be left up to the person and their psychologist. They should be allowed to make whatever decision they want. It should not be anything we concern ourself with.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2016, 07:53 PM
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God i used to post religiously 8n the forums and they sure have gone to hell. Someone early post people in their 80s are just finding out who they are. whine whine whine. What were they doing their who lives and why is it so important we find out who we are whine whine whine. I am a man and i provide for my wife and kid. Thats all anyone needs to know. Certainly a child doesnt k ow and anyone who says differently ate scumbags. We have taken PC Waaaaaaaaay to far. Let a kid go through puberty before they decided who they are. Whine whine whine.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2016, 09:39 AM
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I'm not someone who is entirely in the know about what a transgender person may think or what their emotional state is like however it is something that ties very closely to identity and I just don't believe that anyone has a full idea of their own identity and what they stand for until after they go through puberty. Only after then is a person far more aware of both them self and their body and capable of engaging such an idea. i hate to sound like I'm preaching or telling others how to live their lives (Because its not my intent).

It seems both disingenuous and cruel to assume that a child of 8 could adequately evaluate the ideas that would have to be evaluated fully before realistically coming to terms with your gender and if you wanna change it. Again, the idea of gender isn't something that I think is fully realised until long into puberty.

I'm not a nurse or a doctor like Becca but I have studied psychology and law and I've never come across an expert in the field who considers that children are fully equipped to make such a decision.

For the show? It seems like its heart is in the right place but honestly comes off as downright exploitation.
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2016, 12:03 AM
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I'm not someone who is entirely in the know about what a transgender person may think or what their emotional state is like however it is something that ties very closely to identity and I just don't believe that anyone has a full idea of their own identity and what they stand for until after they go through puberty. Only after then is a person far more aware of both them self and their body and capable of engaging such an idea. i hate to sound like I'm preaching or telling others how to live their lives (Because its not my intent).

It seems both disingenuous and cruel to assume that a child of 8 could adequately evaluate the ideas that would have to be evaluated fully before realistically coming to terms with your gender and if you wanna change it. Again, the idea of gender isn't something that I think is fully realised until long into puberty.

I'm not a nurse or a doctor like Becca but I have studied psychology and law and I've never come across an expert in the field who considers that children are fully equipped to make such a decision.
I assume Becca is that HBK-aholic person. She isn't a psychologist so she really doesn't have any actual insight into this. Not a criticism of her. None of us really do. Professional psychologists who are trained have insight and they will understand it way better than any of us.

I assume children aren't actually put through the surgery or anything like and do wait until they are an adult. Brains finish maturing around age 26 so it would be logical to assume young children cannot quite grasp gender identity yet. I don't see any harm if a child associates with one gender and supporting them. Nothing has been done yet and they might find out they identify with their own gender. I'm pretty sure no one just goes well I feel like a woman today, time to choppy choppy my pee pee.

I don't think kids will get confused if they see this. Like kids don't become gay because they see someone being gay. They are gay because they are gay.

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For the show? It seems like its heart is in the right place but honestly comes off as downright exploitation.
I feel like a lot of people assume anytime there is a LGBT couple or character on TV, that they are exploiting LGBT people. I think it is more people aren't used to them as characters because there aren't a lot of shows with those types of characters on it.
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  #16  
Old 11-16-2016, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by therockiswwf View Post
I assume Becca is that HBK-aholic person. She isn't a psychologist so she really doesn't have any actual insight into this. Not a criticism of her. None of us really do. Professional psychologists who are trained have insight and they will understand it way better than any of us.
Don't take this as a personal attack but are you a psychologist? Becca does seem to have a strong amount of experience in the area. I feel that she may be a lot more qualified than me or yourself to be honest.

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I assume children aren't actually put through the surgery or anything like and do wait until they are an adult. Brains finish maturing around age 26 so it would be logical to assume young children cannot quite grasp gender identity yet. I don't see any harm if a child associates with one gender and supporting them. Nothing has been done yet and they might find out they identify with their own gender. I'm pretty sure no one just goes well I feel like a woman today, time to choppy choppy my pee pee.
Yes but a child can arbitrarily decide something about themselves after reading about it or learning about it. This kid has incredibly liberal parents too so it may be taking an inch and assuming a mile in this situation? I'm being far to assumptive here. All I can say is that there are a lot of things about a child's autonomy that the child them-self aren't expected to legally decide or medically consent to.

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I don't think kids will get confused if they see this. Like kids don't become gay because they see someone being gay. They are gay because they are gay.
Yes but i don't think children give it as much thought as they should before deciding that they identify as trans. Again, the concept of gender is something tied incredibly close to development of a person and to decide your gender before puberty, to me, seems impetuous and ill considered.

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I feel like a lot of people assume anytime there is a LGBT couple or character on TV, that they are exploiting LGBT people. I think it is more people aren't used to them as characters because there aren't a lot of shows with those types of characters on it.
There's nothing wrong with a trans person on a show. Like yourself, I'd like to see a lot more of it. However to attach it to a show like modern family seems to me like a very special episode as opposed to anything else. Again, I'm sure there were good intentions but the road to hell is paved with those.
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2016, 05:44 PM
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Don't take this as a personal attack but are you a psychologist? Becca does seem to have a strong amount of experience in the area. I feel that she may be a lot more qualified than me or yourself to be honest.
A person in my family is going through the process to become one and it takes forever. A nurse is not a psychologist. Sure some stuff may overlap but that doesn't mean a nurse is a psychologist. A doctor and nurse have some overlap but a nurse is not a doctor. Becoming a professional psychologist takes years of extra, specialized school. You don't just get a bachelors degree and become one.

None of us are qualified. Psychologist are. My view is if a kid decides he/she wants to be a different gender then talk with them, get them a psychologist. If everything points towards the kid wanting to be transgender after a thorough evaluation, then start supporting them. I agree that nothing medical should be done until after they are at least 18. Have the psychologist help in the decision. Not a nurse. Not a doctor. Not me. A psychologist.

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Yes but a child can arbitrarily decide something about themselves after reading about it or learning about it. This kid has incredibly liberal parents too so it may be taking an inch and assuming a mile in this situation? I'm being far to assumptive here. All I can say is that there are a lot of things about a child's autonomy that the child them-self aren't expected to legally decide or medically consent to.
I'm fairly certain no kid just decides they want to switch genders overnight. It's a long process. One that should not be taken lightly.

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Yes but i don't think children give it as much thought as they should before deciding that they identify as trans. Again, the concept of gender is something tied incredibly close to development of a person and to decide your gender before puberty, to me, seems impetuous and ill considered.
I do not think a kid sees a transgender person and goes well I'm confused, I wanna be the opposite gender now. I'm not advocating that if a boy goes I want to be a girl that we immediately start dressing them up like one. Again, talk with them. Get them a psychologist. Let them talk it out. Support whatever the outcome is.

I think the process is a lot longer than what you are thinking. I'm pretty sure that a psychological evaluation is part of the medical process anyways.

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There's nothing wrong with a trans person on a show. Like yourself, I'd like to see a lot more of it. However to attach it to a show like modern family seems to me like a very special episode as opposed to anything else. Again, I'm sure there were good intentions but the road to hell is paved with those.
I think it works with Modern Family because they are a progressive show.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2016, 06:12 PM
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Whoa, I really dropped the ball on this discussion.


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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
I genuinely don't even know where to start with that nonsense. Since when have I only 'all of a sudden' cared about complexities? Since when did I say uninformed women should get pregnant? For the record, I don't think an 8 year old should get pregnant, either.
Clearly my analogy went over your head. I digress, what does a child or anyone have to understand about wanting to live as another gender to start living as another gender?

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Actually, I do have 'expertise' on the subject, as a nurse who has a) studied the condition, b) gained a degree and c) cared for people both physically and emotionally pre and post operatively, but please, continue to explain how I'm 'trying to sound thoughtful' with 'no expertise'
So then what have you learned that makes you think kids should wait to start living life in the gender that feels right to them mentally.

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Except that only a few doctors will even diagnose a young child with this 'condition' because of everything I posted originally. And there is always controversy around those that do - for the reasons I posted originally.
Um, source?

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I agree completely. I disagree that at 8 years old, you can grasp what it MEANS to feel like you are a different gender - and then be able to adequately explain those feelings in a way that would mean a solid diagnosis can be made.
Well, neither of us are psychologists.

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Please stop assuming that my (not even negative) post is in some way discriminating against this child and stating he should feel bad about himself - your entire argument is based on nonsense you've assumed I think, know or feel. Let the child do what he wants to do. Don't put pressure on him.
Fair enough, just keep in mind that your language is the kind of language people use that makes kids feel bad about the way they feel about who they think they are. As a parent of a kid who is a little different then the rest of the herd I am probably overly sensitive to the topic. It may seem harmless in a forum like this but I can see very easily how our collection of forum mouth breathers would take such language and turn it in to suppressing and damaging a kid.
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