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  #21  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:30 AM
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Didn't the Dallas Cowboys handle the situation perfectly last night? (Can't believe those words just came out of my mouth lol). Everyone has the right to peaceful protest for whatever it is they are in opposition to, real or perceived. So go ahead and take the knee, in advance of the playing of the anthem. But during the actual playing of the anthem, out of respect for the country, the military, the veterans, and their families and friends, stand up and be quiet and show a little respect for the flag.

I'm not saying these athletes don't have the right to protest peacefully. God knows they have the means at their disposal to do so. But during the three minutes out of the week when the anthem is being played and the eyes of the world are upon them, show a little respect. During the rest of the week, protest all you want. Appear on television, organize rallies, contribute some of the millions of dollars you earn in the USA toward whatever cause it is you support or oppose. Got no problem with that. But there is a significant chunk of people in attendance or watching on television that feel disrespected by protesting during the anthem. I think their feelings should count for something too.
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  #22  
Old 09-26-2017, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatehabsforever View Post
Didn't the Dallas Cowboys handle the situation perfectly last night? (Can't believe those words just came out of my mouth lol). Everyone has the right to peaceful protest for whatever it is they are in opposition to, real or perceived. So go ahead and take the knee, in advance of the playing of the anthem. But during the actual playing of the anthem, out of respect for the country, the military, the veterans, and their families and friends, stand up and be quiet and show a little respect for the flag.

I'm not saying these athletes don't have the right to protest peacefully. God knows they have the means at their disposal to do so. But during the three minutes out of the week when the anthem is being played and the eyes of the world are upon them, show a little respect. During the rest of the week, protest all you want. Appear on television, organize rallies, contribute some of the millions of dollars you earn in the USA toward whatever cause it is you support or oppose. Got no problem with that. But there is a significant chunk of people in attendance or watching on television that feel disrespected by protesting during the anthem. I think their feelings should count for something too.
I definitely see this side of it too. The problem, well not so much a problem as just choice, is that there are such different views on it. I was talking with my C.O. at work today about this thing, he was a veteran during the first Gulf War, and asked him what he thought about the whole thing and he said he was perfectly fine with them protesting because it's part of what he fought for, that while he didn't perfectly agree with it, being a real soldier to him meant fighting for the rights of everyone no matter if you like or agree with what they stand for or not.

I do agree though that the whole thing strikes me as more than a bit opportunistic. I might be wrong as I don't know what all these players do in their personal lives, but do any of them participate in protests? Have they helped organize peaceful protests regarding what's happened, such as Charlottesville? Do they actively participate in activities of various civil rights organizations? If the answer to those questions is no, then it makes their protest come off as a little hollow in my eyes, more of an opportunity to generate headlines. I'm not going to call these athletes heroes, as some have, because they're not heroes in my eyes; they're ultimately grown men who're making countless millions of dollars to essentially play a children's game for a living.

At the end of the day, I think part of what lies behind all this for black players, and blacks in general, is that the America I know as a white man isn't exactly the same they've known in all instances. I mean, I haven't been pulled over by the cops for "being in the wrong neighborhood", I haven't been stopped walking down the street because there was something "suspicious" in how I was walking, I haven't had some vigilante like George Zimmerman chase me down as though I've done something wrong just because of the color of my skin and his thought that he was justified in doing so.
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  #23  
Old 09-27-2017, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by klunderbunker View Post
The idea of the flag is to represent America, which is the land of the free. One such freedom is the freedom of speech, which includes a freedom to protest something if you so desire.

The people who are freaking out over this are probably the same people who feel the need to explain to you how to be a real patriot, which was apparently written on the tablet that Moses forgot at the top of the mountain. The players who are protesting are doing so because they have an issue with something and want it to be discussed and addressed. That's their right as a free American and there's nothing wrong or illegal about what they're doing. Besides, if they want to get attention to a cause, what is going to get more eyes on them: holding a sign on the streets of San Francisco or when a camera is on them with millions of people watching?
Bingo.

One can disagree with the behavior they've chosen to employ to get their concerns in the marketplace of ideas, but objecting to their right to voice their displeasure because you're personally aggrieved with how they choose to do so (peacefully) is hilariously hypocritical. The same right that gives them the ability to peacefully protest is the same one that gives you the right to criticize them for it.
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:50 PM
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You know, as a kid, I remember my school playing the national anthems (we play both PR & US). And for the PR anthem, I can never forget mocking the loving crap out of it. Singing about Christopher Columbus coming in, farting and taking a shit. Was it funny, yeah. Was it disrespect? I don't know and I don't care enough for it because it's just a damn song. It has no bearing on what I feel and who I am. Same goes for my flag. I would rep it gladly, but if I can make a butt out of the three blue stripes for shits and giggles, I would.

Does that make me less patriotic of being Puertorican? No. Fuck no. I am utterly proud of being a guy raised in a place that can't even get internet to this very day and is just a dirt road out of pure lazyness and surrounded by horses and chickens shitting all over it.

My island is currently a living nightmare. I would give life and limb to drop every debt, drop my car, tell my boss to fuck off and leave to go chop trees in the dark just to be with my loved ones. That's something to truly care about. People. Lives. That are in jeopardy. That are suffering. Same goes for those football players who feel lives are in jeopardy and are doing what they can to get people to notice. And they are doing it in the most passive way they can. There's no marches that result in violence here. There's no casualties. Just people getting butthurt over an object and a song. Could they even tell you the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner? Because I sure as hell can't. But does that make me some anti-American disrespect-monger?

But they complain about a knee. Which is in fact, a show of respect in every other context. Or do you not take a knee or two in front of royalty? "Oh noes, peace, get it away~!"
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2017, 06:51 AM
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Being Canadian it really doesn't bother me what American football players do, it's up to them. What I see happening now is that it's turning into a referendum against Donald Trump rather than what Colin Kaepernick wanted it to be. He was doing it for a cause, but let's face it, now it's just to piss Trump off because they know he will say something about it.

One question is, where were these players when Kaepernick first started taking the knee, why didn't they take a knee along side him? Instead he was singled out and really kind of forgotten about till Trump brought it up in Alabama. I think most level headed individuals can get behind a just cause like racial equality, but now it's not about that anymore. It about Donald Trump calling Kaepernick a son of a bitch. Once you deviate from the cause all credibility is lost. Not to mention the fact that news outlets like CNN have blown this all out of proportion. At least that what it looks like to us living outside the US.

Oh and by the way there is no hard and fast NFL rule regarding a code of conduct when the anthem is played. There is however a game operations manual that every team must follow with regards to the national anthem, it goes as follows:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.
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  #26  
Old 11-02-2017, 02:16 AM
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I have an uncle in Nashville and he completely loses his shit over this. I don't really get it - he never used to stand up when we watched the rugby at home, we are used to politics in sport and my granddad protested during the Apartheid era (so peaceful protests are something he should get).

My uncle aside, the argument I usually see popping up is a bit of a non sequitur: You kneel because of racial discrimination in the police service and I stand because of the troops. The most cringe-inducing meme I ever saw was something along these lines: "People who don't stand for the flag have probably never been handed one", with a bunch of flag-clad coffins of deceased soldiers in the background. Well, motherfucker, people who don't kneel have probably never been unarmed and shot at the same time!

The way I understand it, the knee was originally taken to protest the unfair treatment people of colour face by the police in general, referring to a killing in Baton Rouge specifically. With all the violent riots and shootings in the US, it's hard to keep, so I'll admit I only think I know the gist of it.

I don't see how the troops figure into it, to be honest. The protests have nothing to do with the continued occupation of the Middle East.

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Originally Posted by tdmoon View Post
Trump was fine with people carrying nazi flags but pro athletes taking a knee is where he draws the line? Weird.
I don't think Trump can do anything that will surprise anybody else at this point. The man has nothing that even resembles consistency, let alone integrity.

The other line of reasoning (other than the bizarre "black people vs the troops" argument) is one about respect.

Really?

I fail to understand how Trump or any of his supporters can consider taking a knee during the national anthem MORE disrespectful than Trump's blatant and unrepentant attitude towards sexual harassment, the way he recently treated Puerto Ricans, his neutrality towards neo-Nazi's and his prejudice against people of colour.

Sure, kneeling during your national anthem is not the most respectful act in the world. I can understand that. But not protesting those in power who violate human dignity on the basis of colour, sexuality, class and nationality is inexcusable.
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