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  #31  
Old 09-09-2017, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
The problem is that only a certain segment of the fans made it clear they don't want him near the top but at the same time, they also go out to the merchandise stand at tv tapings and buy roman reigns t-shirt. Also their the fact that while a certain group of fans don't want him in the main event picture, another bigger group does want him they i think he deserves that spot and that's the fans that goes to live events. The families and casual fans and those groups are more important to WWE then what we think about reigns.
Live events are nowhere near as important as they used to be. WWE makes more money off of the big events like Wrestlemania, Summerslam, the other PPV's, and Raw/Smackdown tapings. House shows aren't important anymore, at least not to the degree that you are stating. When tens of thousands are boo'ing Reigns relentlessly, that's a rather vocal majority. It's not like Cena where it's divided. The fans do NOT want Reigns in the top spot. WWE appear to be finally moving in a somewhat different direction as I referred to in my last post. Reigns has been more arrogant and is acting heel-ish. They have used the fans' dislike of him to help others like Strowman get over.

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The fact is, they need somebody that's going to be the face of Raw more then the face of the company right now and that's what they are doing, they got one guy being the face of Raw and one guy being the face of smackdown so then when Cena can go anymore they have somebody to take is place on both shows. Reigns is that guy because he's the one that makes them the most money, he's the guy that get the louder reaction on Raw.
I agreed with you up until you said Reigns is the guy who will make them the most money. They need to give other merchandise options to the others. Loudest reaction is NOT a good thing if it's 99% negative. Reigns is the guy who needs to get defeated by the actual face of the federation, once they find one.

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He the guy that actually get kids to bugged their parents to go to a live event and by the way, if you've ever been at a live event, Reigns gets the biggest pop every single time he's on the card.
Live events only make up a small piece of the puzzle. We've been over this. If he gets good reactions there, fine. At the more important events he's despised. Even in Cena's case with his divided reactions he had vocal supporters. Reigns doesn't. Cena could make the fans care. Reigns can't.

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Reigns might not be John Cena on the mic right now, but He's pretty much at the level that Cena was by that time in his career and Reigns will get better as the time goes on.
Not true whatsoever. Reigns has been on the main roster since Survivor Series 2012. He can deliver in high profile matches, but no single match stands out as amazing. His promos are awful and the fans can't stand him. That's almost 5 years. Cena by this point in his own career at the 5 year mark had been in entertaining feuds with JBL, Chris Jericho, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Edge, and the Randy Orton feud was about to start. To say that Reigns at 5 and a years is where Cena was at 5 and a half years is laughable. Reigns does not deserve to be the face of the federation. He never will. Period.

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Reigns as proven himself to be a solid draw for the company, pretty much everybody in and outside the WWE as said that reigns as worked hard to be we're he his and deserve that spot, i know that a small group don't want him, but they have the power to change thing if change thing. If you don't react to the guy and you stop buying his merchandise then they will give up and move on from to somebody else. It worked before and will again but the more you react to the guy the more they are going to push him.
If by "small" you mean 99%, then ok.

As for the merchandise argument, I do only buy merchandise for the wrestlers I like and support. I want Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, and others more deserving in the top spots. I buy their merchandise to support them. Same goes for the women. I buy Alexa Bliss merchandise as well as other women I support who I want to see pushed to the top. Roman may deserve a main event level spot, sure, I've even agreed to this myself. What he doesn't deserve is the spot at the very top that Vince stubbornly refuses to stop forcing Reigns into. Just because you like something doesn't mean your customers will. Most businessmen realize this and move on to something else. It's time Vince does the same with this. It appears that may hopefully be the case, only time will tell. At the end of the day we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you like Reigns, cool. Go support him. I'll support guys like Rollins who I feel DO deserve that top spot.
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  #32  
Old 09-09-2017, 06:08 PM
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Live events are nowhere near as important as they used to be. WWE makes more money off of the big events like Wrestlemania, Summerslam, the other PPV's, and Raw/Smackdown tapings. House shows aren't important anymore, at least not to the degree that you are stating. When tens of thousands are boo'ing Reigns relentlessly, that's a rather vocal majority. It's not like Cena where it's divided. The fans do NOT want Reigns in the top spot. WWE appear to be finally moving in a somewhat different direction as I referred to in my last post. Reigns has been more arrogant and is acting heel-ish. They have used the fans' dislike of him to help others like Strowman get over.
yet, they do how many big time event compare to live events, sure they're making money from the big event, that's normal that the PPV and tv tapings makes more money then the live events, yet most of the year for WWE is live event so, they wouldn't be doing so much of them since they weren't making money with them. Plus, i depends on where the big events or what the big events are or are being held. The big four events are where all the smart wrestling fans so it's normal that he gets booed. With a normal tv crowd in a normal market, you get 50/50 reactions, plus how many fans the supposetly dislike now why they really dislike him, if they truly hated him, they wouldn't react at all, that the best way to get what you want in WWE.




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I agreed with you up until you said Reigns is the guy who will make them the most money. They need to give other merchandise options to the others. Loudest reaction is NOT a good thing if it's 99% negative. Reigns is the guy who needs to get defeated by the actual face of the federation, once they find one.
Again i don't agree with you on this point because like i said previously, if you take away the four big event or when they go to a smart market like new york or chicago, Reigns get a 50/50 reaction he even sometimes get more of a positive reaction then a negative one. So that why would they stop pushing him when he get that type of reaction. Sometimes i think the smart fans don't like somebody because WWE is booking the guy to be the face of the company based on making children happy. That's what the face of the company is. The guy that can do all the charities especially involving kids and the kids will want to see that guy. Reigns is that guy with children and it pisses off the more adult fans.


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Live events only make up a small piece of the puzzle. We've been over this. If he gets good reactions there, fine. At the more important events he's despised. Even in Cena's case with his divided reactions he had vocal supporters. Reigns doesn't. Cena could make the fans care. Reigns can't
.

Again , you seem to be stuck on the fact that he's despised. Guess what it's normal that he's depised at bigger event, look who goes to those events, it's the smart fans. When you watch wrestlemania or summerslam, 90% of the crowd is comprise of smart fans that don't like him for whatever reason. If a PPV his at a smaller town that doesn'T have as much smart fans, he not has depissed. WWE serve more that one audience and i think smart fans or just the IWC in general really need to understand that.


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Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
Not true whatsoever. Reigns has been on the main roster since Survivor Series 2012. He can deliver in high profile matches, but no single match stands out as amazing. His promos are awful and the fans can't stand him. That's almost 5 years. Cena by this point in his own career at the 5 year mark had been in entertaining feuds with JBL, Chris Jericho, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Edge, and the Randy Orton feud was about to start. To say that Reigns at 5 and a years is where Cena was at 5 and a half years is laughable. Reigns does not deserve to be the face of the federation. He never will. Period.
Again wrong, if you look just at this year alone, i think that fans will still remember his whole feud with strowman, fans remember all his matches he did last year with rollins, ambrose , balor. How can we even forget about his match with Taker at this year's mania, i think saying that not one of his matches stand out as amazing is just being ignorant in my opinion. O.K he had a few bump in the road like his feud with sheamus and HHH but let's face it, this was horrible booking from WWe and it was out of his control.




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If by "small" you mean 99%, then ok.

As for the merchandise argument, I do only buy merchandise for the wrestlers I like and support. I want Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, and others more deserving in the top spots. I buy their merchandise to support them. Same goes for the women. I buy Alexa Bliss merchandise as well as other women I support who I want to see pushed to the top. Roman may deserve a main event level spot, sure, I've even agreed to this myself. What he doesn't deserve is the spot at the very top that Vince stubbornly refuses to stop forcing Reigns into. Just because you like something doesn't mean your customers will. Most businessmen realize this and move on to something else. It's time Vince does the same with this. It appears that may hopefully be the case, only time will tell. At the end of the day we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you like Reigns, cool. Go support him. I'll support guys like Rollins who I feel DO deserve that top spot.
Again with the 99% stick. It's like you can't stand that their a lot of people that actually like him, the fact that on certains towns the minority is louder then the rest doesn'T mean that 99% of the fans hates him, it's just means that a section of the fans is louder then the other. listen the crowd during his matches on big event and 9 times out of 10 he gets a 50/50 reaction during his matches. Sometimes he gets 90% of the crowd on his side during his matches so i still don'T get where you take the 99% thing. As for your merchandise point, i'm like you i buy only the merchandise from the wrestlers i like but not everybody are like that and sadly you woill get people that supposedly hates reigns buying his t-shirt anyway and wearing it will the boo him. That what the wwe is all about.

I think that the face of the company is the guy that gets the bigger reaction, but also the guys that kids love the most because WWE is a family product at first and that why Vince push Reigns that much because Reigns look like a superhero and kids do love that character. Sadly it does hurt the rest of the fans in the process. But if you don't like it, stop reacting and they will move on the the next guy.
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2017, 04:39 PM
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I think that the face of the company is the guy that gets the bigger reaction, but also the guys that kids love the most because WWE is a family product at first and that why Vince push Reigns that much because Reigns look like a superhero and kids do love that character. Sadly it does hurt the rest of the fans in the process. But if you don't like it, stop reacting and they will move on the the next guy.
Um no the face of the company is the guy that gets the most cheers because he is the superstar everyone loves.

I get your arguments. Kids love him, he gets the loudest reactions albeit they are boo's in the major shows, and sells a lot of merchandise.

And they aren't that far from the truth.

Let's compare this to 1995 when Diesel was the top guy in the WWE was being groomed as "the guy". I am pretty sure everything you said about Reigns today applied to Diesel. I am sure the kids loved him, gets loud reactions (and heck probably got more cheers than Roman does), and sold a ton of merchandise.

The only problem is that WCW existed and for fans who didn't care for Diesel as the top guy probably switched to WCW (or even ECW).

That's the difference between then and now. Back then the hardcore wrestling fans had a choice. Now Reigns keeps getting pushed despite the dissaproval from fans because they will continue to watch and attend the events and buy those $400 championship belts no matter what. And that's only because these fans love Wrestling but WWE is the only major promotion in town. If they had a choice I am sure they would have stopped watching the WWE years ago.

And of course this resulted rating between WCW and WWE being neck and neck for most of Diesel's run eventually leading to WCW overtaking the Monday Night Wars from 1996 and 1997.

I guarantee you if a promotion as big WCW still existed and was real competition to the WWE most of those hardcore fans that boo, hate, and/or dislike Roman Reigns would have switched to the other promotion if they were offering a product that was just as hot. Also this was 1995 and Vince McMahon was still running the WWF with his own money and wasn't a publicly traded one Roman Reigns push as the top baby face would have ended over a year ago.

My point is:

So no you can't use the arguments of kids loving him, selling the most merchandise in the roster, and any reaction is a good reaction on Reigns because if this was 1995 all those would have been a recipe for disaster for the WWF/WWE.
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:14 AM
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Um no the face of the company is the guy that gets the most cheers because he is the superstar everyone loves.

I get your arguments. Kids love him, he gets the loudest reactions albeit they are boo's in the major shows, and sells a lot of merchandise.

And they aren't that far from the truth.

Let's compare this to 1995 when Diesel was the top guy in the WWE was being groomed as "the guy". I am pretty sure everything you said about Reigns today applied to Diesel. I am sure the kids loved him, gets loud reactions (and heck probably got more cheers than Roman does), and sold a ton of merchandise.

The only problem is that WCW existed and for fans who didn't care for Diesel as the top guy probably switched to WCW (or even ECW).

That's the difference between then and now. Back then the hardcore wrestling fans had a choice. Now Reigns keeps getting pushed despite the dissaproval from fans because they will continue to watch and attend the events and buy those $400 championship belts no matter what. And that's only because these fans love Wrestling but WWE is the only major promotion in town. If they had a choice I am sure they would have stopped watching the WWE years ago.

And of course this resulted rating between WCW and WWE being neck and neck for most of Diesel's run eventually leading to WCW overtaking the Monday Night Wars from 1996 and 1997.

I guarantee you if a promotion as big WCW still existed and was real competition to the WWE most of those hardcore fans that boo, hate, and/or dislike Roman Reigns would have switched to the other promotion if they were offering a product that was just as hot. Also this was 1995 and Vince McMahon was still running the WWF with his own money and wasn't a publicly traded one Roman Reigns push as the top baby face would have ended over a year ago.

My point is:

So no you can't use the arguments of kids loving him, selling the most merchandise in the roster, and any reaction is a good reaction on Reigns because if this was 1995 all those would have been a recipe for disaster for the WWF/WWE.
The way you explain it, you pretty much did my job for me, if you compare this to 1995, you're right vince wuld have put end to this because back then, he was losing money because WCW had the biggest names and the fans the followed wwe during the hogan era switch to wcw because all the old guys they grew up watching we're in wcw. Vince was searching for the next guy and diesel did work with the fanbase the had at the time, in fact he did pretty much as well as hbk did the year after.

But the fact is this isn't 1995 anymore, it's 2017 vince my be the boss but he has to answered to investors and shareholders now which mean that now more then ever, he need to make money if they want to keep them happy and reigns like it or not does bring in mney for wwe. So the argument about merchandise sell and kids loving him is valid here. The fact is when even the so called haters buys reigns merchandise, wwe would be foolish to stop pushing him. The hardcore fans pay just so they can boo reigns so he does put butts into see.

So to me that's what the face of the company is in 2017, he the guy that makes the most money and that bring peoples into the arena. Since the face of the company does alot of apparence with kids, you need to be popular with kids more then adults

In the end, it's not about who's the most popular anymore, like it was 20 plus years ago. It about who's able to make money for the company and who's able to do all the charities stuff. That's the job of the face of the company. Reigns fit both argument right now. Yes the hardcore don't like him, but that what nxt is for, that's what thesuper indy's are for, that's what new japan is for. The hardcores have so many option right now that if they don't like wwe right now, they can just watch and follow another product. They don't have to support the main wwe product if they don't like it. The point is. The hardcore like going to wwe because they let them react the way they want because in the end, while thy might react negatively to reigns, they still payed to get into the building just to boo reigns and in the end, it all that matters. When somebody else can make more money then reigns then vince will stop pushing reigns and will go with whoever takes reigns on top. I always said that the fans have all the power on who they want to get push, the best way to do so Is to buy the merchandise but also to stop reacting to the guy. If reigns doesn't get a reaction, that's when the will realise that they fail with reigns and will push someody else, until then, get comfortable with reigns on top because he's their for a long time.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:26 AM
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Roman Reigns is good. He is just not good at long promos. He has the tools, the leash that's held on him by WWE, is his problem.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:31 PM
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I think that Roman has overhyped by Vince. He didn't deserve to beat Undertaker in Wrestlemania. Ideal Writer
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:42 PM
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Roman was incredibly likeable until it became "cool" to hate him.
The hive mind went to work and suddenly it's Roman sucks.

And along the way the reasons for not liking him have changed.

He's being shoved down our throats.
He doesn't deserve the title yet because he's not proven.
I like XYZ wrestler better and he's stealing their chance.

What's funny about this current story line with Cena is that WWE has finally found someone for Cena to match up against that makes Cena look like a face.

Roman could work easily as a face. He totally seems like the type of guy that you could sit and shoot the shit with.

What needs to happen for that to be a thing though is he needs to go away for a bit. Let him take 3 months off or something.

Even with Cena as split as the crowd was on him when he came back from injuries he usually got a good pop. And then they did things the same way as before and things went back to normal.

With Roman they either need to have him go away and come back repackaged somewhat. Change his promos. Change his reactions to people. Change his focus.

Or turn him heel and keep him heel.
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  #38  
Old 09-15-2017, 02:55 AM
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A lot of people seem to misunderstand what I was trying to say. First of all, I like Reigns. He is good and has transformed well as a reliable hand in the main event. However, nothing about his persona seems face to me, and I'm not even basing this on crowd reactions. I'm talking about his body language and mannerisms, whether in promo or in-ring. I think WWE left a lot of money on the table by not turning Roman heel, especially during the time when Rollins got injured and there was a great story in the making against Dean. A heel turn and joining authority would've made him a mega heel. People usually like stories that have its roots in reality. One of the reasons Roman receives so many boos is because most people see through WWE's attempt at stacking the cards against him.

As for whether he can be the face of WWE, at this point he isn't. People who bring up merchandise sales forget that WWE overproduces some merchandise while underselling some others, especially at live shows (happened with me and my friend during the live show here where we couldn't get Dolph merchandise and only had options of couple other merch). Again, this is not a dig at Roman because clearly he is talented, but I think being a face hurts him more than helps him. Unleashing him as a heel can not only benefit him, but help someone else get over as face. They want him to be the next John Cena when he can be the next Triple H.
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  #39  
Old 09-15-2017, 05:41 AM
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I get the point of this thread now, but you have to realise that the time of traditional face and heel wrestlers especially in WWE doesn't exist anymore. It's all about shades of greys now. Fans cheer whoever they want and boo whoever they want and this mentality isn't goig to change. If they would have turn reigns in te traditional sense, fans that hate him would have probably started to love him and fans would love him would have probably started to hate him, so it wouldn't have change a thing since he's in the john cena type character right now where a certain group of fans hates him and a certains group of fans loves him.

Reigns isn't the face of the company right now, john cena is. But he's the closest thing to being the face that they have right and that's bases on merchs sale, especially via the website and reaction along. I think that's why they did the feud with cena now. Because they want reigns to step up his game and prove that he deserve to ne at the number 2 spot and while the first week, It didn't go so well, he step up the last couple of week and now will have to wait to see if he can perform on cena's level.

The fact is, love him or hate him, the guy as been getting huge reaction for years now and with the mentality that wwe has toward the traditional face and heel thing, I doubt that reigns will become a traditional heel anytime soon. In ther mind, he's whatever the fans want him to be and they just adapt the character to please everybody
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash-LN View Post
Roman was incredibly likeable until it became "cool" to hate him.
The hive mind went to work and suddenly it's Roman sucks.
You are pretty naive to think is why fans do not like him. Historically Wrestling fans do not like it when a superstar is being shoved down their throats.

You can compare guys that were handpicked by Vince McMahon and look what led to the fans turning on Reigns.

It's not rocket science but it's not as shallow as how you put it either.
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