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  #371  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:18 PM
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A textbook and extremely transparent case of someone setting their own rules/questions to suit their agenda. I will entertain you somewhat by going through this like I was marking an essay, highlighting any tangental/specious reasoning and in particular the irrelevancies of many of your points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that those raid videos were just paid actors
Irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the subject at hand except the law being enforced on guilty individuals, however heavy-handed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove the deaths from marijuana
I suppose someone walking out into traffic or crashing their car when high as a kite is not a marijuana death in your opinion. The alcohol industry will be happy to hear that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that The Heath Tulane Study was false
It was a study that did take place so it is impossible to prove otherwise. It's claimed results were incorrect although that does not prove anything except that that one study was wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that marijuana has no benefits at all
Irrelevant. Plenty of other illegal things have benefits too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove what Dr.Donald Tashkin said was false
We'll just gloss over the fact that he said that marijuana can be up to 15 times more harmful to a part of the lung than tobacco. Sounds completely harmless...

Also I can use Google to find several articles that suggest that marijuana can be anywhere between 6 and 20 times more carcinogenic than tobacco, which is more than the "cancer-fighting" can prevent. I am not going to present them though as they are no more "facts" than your presented studies.

What does this prove? That opinion remains divided and more research is required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that the state of Montana didn't take away a kid's medicine or that the cannabis oil wasn't working
First part is irrelevant again as heavy-handed law enforcement is not the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that marijuana has no medical benefits
Did anyone say it does not? However, it is not a panacea. Marijuana does not cure anything. It is therapeutic and can alleviate pain/symptoms. However, it can also heighten already detrimental mental conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that more people died from smoking marijuana than people who died while in prison for a marijuana offense
Again, irrelevant as the state of American prisons has nothing to do with the issue and again does not take into account DUI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that marijuana being illegal isn't a failure
Because people continue to break the laws regarding the growing, transporting, selling and usage of marijuana makes it a failure? If that conclusion were applied across the board then law and order would collapse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Prove that marijuana isn't the greatest plant ever
It certainly is versatile but you are kidding yourself if you think that most people want it legalised to build houses, make rope or eat. They want it legalised so they can get high from the species of the cannabis plant that provides for it.
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  #372  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
A textbook and extremely transparent case of someone setting their own rules/questions to suit their agenda. I will entertain you somewhat by going through this like I was marking an essay, highlighting any tangental/specious reasoning and in particular the irrelevancies of many of your points.
You didn't really do that good of a job proving me wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the subject at hand except the law being enforced on guilty individuals, however heavy-handed.
If marijuana were legal their wouldn't be a need for that for from irrelevant



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
I suppose someone walking out into traffic or crashing their car when high as a kite is not a marijuana death in your opinion. The alcohol industry will be happy to hear that.
The more people who don't smoke pot get into accidents then people who ere under the influence of marijuana. The marijuana still didn't kill them. 150,000 people die from alcohol and that is not including highway deaths. Just smoking marijuana has yet to kill a single person. More deaths from marijuana are from it being illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
It was a study that did take place so it is impossible to prove otherwise. It's claimed results were incorrect although that does not prove anything except that that one study was wrong.
What about other studies that show marijuana increases brain function. That was a pretty. That is a pretty big lie when they say marijuana causes brain damage but it was determined by putting a gas mask on a monkey and they were forced to inhale 63 Columbian strength joints in minutes without any oxygen. What about all the other lies that were told.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Irrelevant. Plenty of other illegal things have benefits too.
Tell me what other illegal things have the same benefits of marijuana



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
We'll just gloss over the fact that he said that marijuana can be up to 15 times more harmful to a part of the lung than tobacco. Sounds completely harmless...

Also I can use Google to find several articles that suggest that marijuana can be anywhere between 6 and 20 times more carcinogenic than tobacco, which is more than the "cancer-fighting" can prevent. I am not going to present them though as they are no more "facts" than your presented studies.

What does this prove? That opinion remains divided and more research is required.
Tobacco also kill more people each year than AIDS,heroin,crack,cocaine,car accidents,fire,and murder combined.

Smoking marijuana could only cause a minor irritation to the large airways of the lung and is discontinued after smoking Also it was been proven that marijuana causes any changes to the small airways of the lungs unlike tobacco that causes long term and permanent damage. Also the difference between the amount of cigarettes a person smokes compared to a heavy marijuana smoker is much smaller.
Tens of millions people smoke pot regularly each year and still no caused case of lung cancer due to marijuana smoking


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
First part is irrelevant again as heavy-handed law enforcement is not the issue.
How is it irrelevant?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Did anyone say it does not? However, it is not a panacea. Marijuana does not cure anything. It is therapeutic and can alleviate pain/symptoms. However, it can also heighten already detrimental mental conditions.
I never said it cures anything but it is a great medicine that helps people live their lives a little easier and doesn't have the side effects that prescription medicine has.What about glaucoma? Marijuana can benefit 90% of he 2.5 million people with glaucoma and is two to three times mor effected than any current medicine for reducing occular pressure. Marijuana can be used to help asthma where taking a hit of marijuana has been known to stop an asthma attack. It could also be used to reduce tumors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Again, irrelevant as the state of American prisons has nothing to do with the issue and again does not take into account DUI.
If pot were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Because people continue to break the laws regarding the growing, transporting, selling and usage of marijuana makes it a failure? If that conclusion were applied across the board then law and order would collapse.
People still continue to smoke it is easier for a kid to get then tobacco and alcohol. It is wasted money spent by tax payers money. If it were to be made legal it would make over a billion dollars and we be saving money since less people will be in prison.

Marijuana is a win win situation money wise



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
It certainly is versatile but you are kidding yourself if you think that most people want it legalised to build houses, make rope or eat. They want it legalised so they can get high from the species of the cannabis plant that provides for it.
There are thousands and thousands of benefits from marijuana nd there is a lot to choose from if it were made legal we could do what ever we want with the world's greatest plant
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  #373  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:09 PM
Rayne Rayne is offline
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Барбоса, were you expecting a rational, sane answer that had anything to do with what you said?

Todd, you are part of the reason marijuana is still illegal. People who vote see you talk and it scares the shit out of them.
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  #374  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:20 PM
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Tell me how I'm the reason? Tell me what wasn't rational or sane.
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  #375  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:39 PM
Rayne Rayne is offline
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I'd try, but by definition I couldn't explain it to an insane person.
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  #376  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
You didn't really do that good of a job proving me wrong.
Because you weighted the questions in your favour. I made that abundantly clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
If marijuana were legal their wouldn't be a need for that for from irrelevant
It is completely irrelevant as those cops being heavy-handed has nothing to do with the presence of marijuana. It does not provide any ammunition for you to question the law they were enforcing, which is what you are doing.

By that same logic, when cops are heavy-handed in busting a crack den or a prostitution ring or chasing a murderer, it would provide legitimacy to those illegal activities too. It does not.

Therefore, irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
The more people who don't smoke pot get into accidents then people who ere under the influence of marijuana. The marijuana still didn't kill them. 150,000 people die from alcohol and that is not including highway deaths. Just smoking marijuana has yet to kill a single person. More deaths from marijuana are from it being illegal.
Are you serious? Of course, there are more people getting into accidents who are not smoking marijuana than are - because there are exponentially more people who are not stupid enough to drive under the influence.

Of course, the marijuana played a part in the deaths of those who drive under the influence. The same way that it does with those drunk drivers.

You may not want to count DUI as a marijuana-caused death but you are in a very tiny minority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
What about other studies that show marijuana increases brain function. That was a pretty. That is a pretty big lie when they say marijuana causes brain damage but it was determined by putting a gas mask on a monkey and they were forced to inhale 63 Columbian strength joints in minutes without any oxygen. What about all the other lies that were told.
You did not ask about other studies. Who is "they?" It was one flawed study and there are plenty of lies/exaggerations told to the benefit of marijuana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Tell me what other illegal things have the same benefits of marijuana
A good example of you changing the questions to suit your agenda once the original statement has been questioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Tobacco also kill more people each year than AIDS,heroin,crack,cocaine,car accidents,fire,and murder combined.

Smoking marijuana could only cause a minor irritation to the large airways of the lung and is discontinued after smoking Also it was been proven that marijuana causes any changes to the small airways of the lungs unlike tobacco that causes long term and permanent damage. Also the difference between the amount of cigarettes a person smokes compared to a heavy marijuana smoker is much smaller.

Tens of millions people smoke pot regularly each year and still no caused case of lung cancer due to marijuana smoking
Tobacco is not the issue here. How many times must you be told that? Just because something else is legal but harmful does not mean that marijuana automatically should be too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
How is it irrelevant?
You're going to make me repeat myself, aren't you? Alright.

"Because heavy-handed law enforcement is not the issue." That they were going after a possessor of marijuana in no way justifies the guilty party having marijuana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
I never said it cures anything but it is a great medicine that helps people live their lives a little easier and doesn't have the side effects that prescription medicine has.What about glaucoma? Marijuana can benefit 90% of he 2.5 million people with glaucoma and is two to three times mor effected than any current medicine for reducing occular pressure. Marijuana can be used to help asthma where taking a hit of marijuana has been known to stop an asthma attack. It could also be used to reduce tumors.
That is a good argument for medicinal marijuana being made available but not for the likes of you to stew your brain.

And of course you have been promoting marijuana as a panacea - "greatest plant ever."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
If pot were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison
That is a ridiculous argument. In fact, it is not even an argument. You could substitute "pot" in that sentence for any crime. It suggests that you think that the only people who die in prison are there because of marijuana.

"If fraud were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison"

"If murder were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison"

"If armed robbery were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
People still continue to smoke it is easier for a kid to get then tobacco and alcohol. It is wasted money spent by tax payers money. If it were to be made legal it would make over a billion dollars and we be saving money since less people will be in prison.

Marijuana is a win win situation money wise
I do not believe for a second that it is easier to get pot than tobacco/alcohol.

And by the same logic, the war on stronger narcotics is also a failure so we might as well give up on them too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
There are thousands and thousands of benefits from marijuana nd there is a lot to choose from if it were made legal we could do what ever we want with the world's greatest plant
Legalise hemp production then for its physical properties. Not as a narcotic outside of medicine. No need for another disgusting habit to permeate society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
Барбоса, were you expecting a rational, sane answer that had anything to do with what you said?
Not sure what I was thinking.
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  #377  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:43 PM
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I think I saw Todd in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfkUsJmx1ck
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  #378  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Because you weighted the questions in your favour. I made that abundantly clear.
It looks like all you do is ignore the truth.
I was laughing the entire time I was reading your responses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
It is completely irrelevant as those cops being heavy-handed has nothing to do with the presence of marijuana. It does not provide any ammunition for you to question the law they were enforcing, which is what you are doing.

By that same logic, when cops are heavy-handed in busting a crack den or a prostitution ring or chasing a murderer, it would provide legitimacy to those illegal activities too. It does not.

Therefore, irrelevant.
But murders,prostitution ring,and crack dens actually cause harm unlike medical marijuana dispensaries that provide medicine for sick people. You canít compare a crack den to cops busting into families house killing their dog over a little bit of marijuana. What about the mayor in Maryland? His dogs got killed because SWAT raided the wrong house which was because of marijuana. It provides a lot of ammunition it seems like every time you say itís irrelevant is you ignoring the truth. If marijuana were legal there would be no need for these cops and their heavy hands. Just because itís their job doesnít make it right. You say itís ok because they were doing their job. Is it alright for me to pay someone to kill a person? According to your logic it is because they were doing a job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Are you serious? Of course, there are more people getting into accidents who are not smoking marijuana than are - because there are exponentially more people who are not stupid enough to drive under the influence.

Of course, the marijuana played a part in the deaths of those who drive under the influence. The same way that it does with those drunk drivers.

You may not want to count DUI as a marijuana-caused death but you are in a very tiny minority.
Then that would mean that pot smokers are to smart to drive under the influence since the people who do is such a tiny minority. Still a tiny minority. Marijuana wonít do anything close to what the impairment of legal alcohol will cause behind the wheel.

Still no good reason at all to keep something with so many benefits illegal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
You did not ask about other studies. Who is "they?" It was one flawed study and there are plenty of lies/exaggerations told to the benefit of marijuana.
Itís hard to call it a lie to benefit when marijuana when it is a proven fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
A good example of you changing the questions to suit your agenda once the original statement has been questioned.
Hey you told me their was illegal things with benefits. I want to know if they have all the same benefits of marijuana. How is that changing questions to suit my agenda? Is that your way of saying I canít give you a answer?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Tobacco is not the issue here. How many times must you be told that? Just because something else is legal but harmful does not mean that marijuana automatically should be too.
You brought it up first. I was just comparing the damage that tobacco does compared to marijuana. It is a pretty damn good reason to make marijuana legal when smoking it wonít kill you and 450,000 people die a year because of tobacco. It makes no sense at all to keep marijuana illegal. Rayne supports the death of 450,000 people a year and said itís OK to keep tobacco legal since it is a billion dollar company. So is marijuana and like I said before we would be saving money due to less people in prison. Win Win situation! Remember?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
You're going to make me repeat myself, aren't you? Alright.

"Because heavy-handed law enforcement is not the issue." That they were going after a possessor of marijuana in no way justifies the guilty party having marijuana.
And your going to make me repeat myself again too. If marijuana were legal there wold be no need for any of this heavy handed law enforcement in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
That is a good argument for medicinal marijuana being made available but not for the likes of you to stew your brain.

And of course you have been promoting marijuana as a panacea - "greatest plant ever."
Marijuana can also be used to prevent illnesses. Smoking marijuana regularly is like a guy who drinks a glass of orange juice a day or eats a lot of fruits and vegetables to stay healthy. Itís a plus if your smoking weed too. Marijuana has been shown to increase brain function. Also show me a plant that has the same benefits of marijuana and we will declare that the worlds greatest plant. What is the greatest plant in the world then? Is it the ficus?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
That is a ridiculous argument. In fact, it is not even an argument. You could substitute "pot" in that sentence for any crime. It suggests that you think that the only people who die in prison are there because of marijuana.

"If fraud were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison"

"If murder were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison"

"If armed robbery were legal they would have never got arrested and died while in prison"
Your claims are just as dumb. Pot isnít a crime, prohibition is a crime. Your making me repeat myself again. If marijuana were legal these people wouldnít be in prison for their so called crime. These people wouldnít have died. The police need to going after more murders,robbers,and people who commit fraud than bust people for smoking pot. If marijuana were legal medical marijuana users like Richard Flor wouldnít have died on the way to prison. You canít compare a murder to any one that died in prison because of a pot charge. Police arrest medical marijuana users and they die because they are left without their medicine. You canít compare a robber to a sick person. You canít compare those type of terrible to people who are even alive in prison for marijuana like Marc Emery and Eddy Lepp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
I do not believe for a second that it is easier to get pot than tobacco/alcohol.

And by the same logic, the war on stronger narcotics is also a failure so we might as well give up on them too.

I said kids. It is easier for a kid to get illegal marijuana than legal tobacco and alcohol. Their are even plenty of kids in high school selling pot. Shows how good marijuana prohibition is working that even high school kids are getting away with selling marijuana. The whole drug war is a failure and a waste of money. Also those other drugs will kill you and way worse than marijuana and donít have any of the benefits that marijuana does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Legalise hemp production then for its physical properties. Not as a narcotic outside of medicine. No need for another disgusting habit to permeate society.
First off you spelled legalized wrong I think that should be a year sentence in prison.

Marijuana isnít a disgusting habit at all. If any thing marijuana will only create a better society. Smoking marijuana is a much safer and healthier habit than tobacco and alcohol. Their are plenty of successful people who smoke pot. People with a family and a well paid job that live in a nice house. It is more healthier to come after a day of a work take a few bong hits than drinking a bunch of beer. Or even a guy who drinks a glass of wine. If he drinks too much wine it could kill him, if he smokes too much weed he may miss the ending to the movie he was watching because he fell asleep. If anything making marijuana legal would create a much safer and healthier habit for society.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Not sure what I was thinking.
I donít know what you are thinking either.
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  #379  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Todd:There are thousands and thousands of benefits from marijuana nd there is a lot to choose from if it were made legal we could do what ever we want with the world's greatest plant
List one thousand benefits
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  #380  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:53 PM
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Is this apart of your defense that marijuana being illegal isn't a failure?
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