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  #41  
Old 06-29-2017, 12:19 PM
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THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
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Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
So, you don't think that the characters strive for titles? I've never seen anyone with a blurrier line between fiction and non-fiction. The characters do strive for titles, because that is what they are there for. You really need to see the difference between performers and the characters they play. You keep referencing that post of mine, but each time you do, you just prove how clueless you are. And if you don't see that, that is also proving how clueless you are. The characters do strive for titles, although the performers--the ones who know it is scripted--may not. Holy hell...

Also, I referred to the Million Dollar Belt as insignificant in this way. You are the one who is only bringing up the World title. I swear in half of your posts, I think you confuse me with you. Look in the mirror...see that guy? Ask him what he thinks. I guarantee he disagrees with half of what you say.
It's real to him dammit!

The Million Dollar Belt was a poor attempt at appeasement of DiBiase, mixed with a misguided attempt to create a new title in the WWF for guys who didn't "fit" the other title pictures.

DiBiase feuded with guys like Jake, Dusty and Virgil over that title, guys who weren't getting near the WWF or IC titles... only the belt itself was put into a category of value rather than prestige... Anyone who took on DiBiase was inherently trying to win a belt "worth" a million dollars (in truth I think it was nearer to 50 grand) with the implication being if they won the belt, they were a millionaire.

The roster would have been better served by a 3rd title even then that was a sanctioned one... a TV title or US title would have helped so many more talents at that time - look what the WCW one did for guys like Steamboat, Anderson, Zybysko and the younger talents like Regal, Austin and Scott Steiner... if you were older, it showed you were still a force... if you were younger, it was a stepping stone to great things.

Irony is WWE tried the same tactic with Davey Boy and the European title - promised him a World run, didn't deliver and tried to appease with their own title, only to take it from them quickly. Only difference is the European actually had prestige and enhanced Davey for the time he had it and many others after... The Million Dollar killed DiBiase as a legit character, as much as Makavelli doesn't want to agree... he had to go into Money Inc. with the tag titles to get his cred back...

Had they actually said "Whoever wins this belt wins a million... but if you lose you have to pay DiBiase a Million... or work as his "slave" to pay off your debt like Virgil" the angle could have worked... they tried it later with Nikolai, but it was too little too late.

Last edited by THTRobtaylor : 06-29-2017 at 12:22 PM.
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  #42  
Old 06-29-2017, 12:53 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
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Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
It's real to him dammit!

The Million Dollar Belt was a poor attempt at appeasement of DiBiase, mixed with a misguided attempt to create a new title in the WWF for guys who didn't "fit" the other title pictures.

DiBiase feuded with guys like Jake, Dusty and Virgil over that title, guys who weren't getting near the WWF or IC titles... only the belt itself was put into a category of value rather than prestige... Anyone who took on DiBiase was inherently trying to win a belt "worth" a million dollars (in truth I think it was nearer to 50 grand) with the implication being if they won the belt, they were a millionaire.

The roster would have been better served by a 3rd title even then that was a sanctioned one... a TV title or US title would have helped so many more talents at that time - look what the WCW one did for guys like Steamboat, Anderson, Zybysko and the younger talents like Regal, Austin and Scott Steiner... if you were older, it showed you were still a force... if you were younger, it was a stepping stone to great things.

Irony is WWE tried the same tactic with Davey Boy and the European title - promised him a World run, didn't deliver and tried to appease with their own title, only to take it from them quickly. Only difference is the European actually had prestige and enhanced Davey for the time he had it and many others after... The Million Dollar killed DiBiase as a legit character, as much as Makavelli doesn't want to agree... he had to go into Money Inc. with the tag titles to get his cred back...

Had they actually said "Whoever wins this belt wins a million... but if you lose you have to pay DiBiase a Million... or work as his "slave" to pay off your debt like Virgil" the angle could have worked... they tried it later with Nikolai, but it was too little too late.
I like the work it off angle. Could have led to some good moments. But yeah, what you said is right. If they really wanted to invent a new title that would have had credibility, they should have put it on Barbarian.
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  #43  
Old 06-29-2017, 01:48 PM
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Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
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So, you don't think that the characters strive for titles? I've never seen anyone with a blurrier line between fiction and non-fiction. The characters do strive for titles, because that is what they are there for. You really need to see the difference between performers and the characters they play. You keep referencing that post of mine, but each time you do, you just prove how clueless you are. And if you don't see that, that is also proving how clueless you are. The characters do strive for titles, although the performers--the ones who know it is scripted--may not. Holy hell...
No they don't "strive" for titles unless they are a "mark." Scott Hall said "beat me every night, but you have pay me." They strive to get their character over with the fans and as a result move up on the card and maybe they are handed the title. They don't "win it on their own." It does not matter which title. Any spot on a supercard means a substantial payday and a chance to get over with the fans. That's what they are there for. I would rather make $500,000 a year as a non-title guy vs $400,000 as the World Champion. It's simple as that.

I don't delve into the world of "fiction." You might believe every "character" strives for the title in the make believe fantasy world of pro wrestling but the REALITY is there can only be one and for guys like Ted DiBiase, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts they were not getting the ball. They were not supplanting Hogan, Warrior, or Savage. So Vince had to create angles, storylines, and different ways to get these guys over and "The Million Dollar Championship was one way. And it worked. They had a memorable feud over the "insignificant" championship in the lead up to WrestleMania 6. There is nothing "insignificant" about that.

So you just keep living in your fantasy world of "characters" striving for titles on which they are handed and I'll keep dealing with the reality of what was going on back then and keep trying to educate you.
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  #44  
Old 06-29-2017, 02:04 PM
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Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
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The Million Dollar Belt was a poor attempt at appeasement of DiBiase, mixed with a misguided attempt to create a new title in the WWF for guys who didn't "fit" the other title pictures.

DiBiase feuded with guys like Jake, Dusty and Virgil over that title, guys who weren't getting near the WWF or IC titles... only the belt itself was put into a category of value rather than prestige... Anyone who took on DiBiase was inherently trying to win a belt "worth" a million dollars (in truth I think it was nearer to 50 grand) with the implication being if they won the belt, they were a millionaire.
Poor attempt? According to whom? Hmmm let's see....it got him a spot on the WrestleMania 6 card.....He didn't really feud with Dusty over the belt, it was more Sapphire but the feud with Dusty was extended to the Royal Rumble....and the feud with Virgil got him paid at WrestleMania 7 and SummerSlam '91. Pretty good if you ask me but I guess we're still living in "fantasy land" where we want Ted DiBiase to be holding the World title and anything else be damned.

Quote:
The roster would have been better served by a 3rd title even then that was a sanctioned one... a TV title or US title would have helped so many more talents at that time - look what the WCW one did for guys like Steamboat, Anderson, Zybysko and the younger talents like Regal, Austin and Scott Steiner... if you were older, it showed you were still a force... if you were younger, it was a stepping stone to great things.
The U.S. title was the equivalent of the I-C title. It was for the smaller "worker"-type wrestlers i.e. Hennig, Bret, Shawn, or to establish guys like Razor or Diesel having both the I-C and US titles would be worthless.

Quote:
Irony is WWE tried the same tactic with Davey Boy and the European title - promised him a World run, didn't deliver and tried to appease with their own title, only to take it from them quickly. Only difference is the European actually had prestige and enhanced Davey for the time he had it and many others after... The Million Dollar killed DiBiase as a legit character, as much as Makavelli doesn't want to agree... he had to go into Money Inc. with the tag titles to get his cred back...
Really? They promised Davey Boy Smith a run with the World title and instead gave him the European title? Did you read this in WWF magazine also? Let's see. I'm betting he would've got the title over Bret? No? Diesel, maybe? Hmmm no I don't think so. Oh! I know! He would have gotten it over Shawn!!! Again, a bunch of non-sense coming out of your mouth the same non-sense like Rude supposedly getting the title over Hogan.

Quote:
The Million Dollar killed DiBiase as a legit character, as much as Makavelli doesn't want to agree... he had to go into Money Inc. with the tag titles to get his cred back...
His cred back?!? LOL!! This a good one. DiBiase was much more credible as a singles wrestler. The guy was one the top heels in the company. He drew money with Virgil for God's sake. If you can't see that I can't help you. If you know the backstory DiBiase was having marital problems and was headed to divorce. He requested less days on the road to be with his wife hence the tag team situation with IRS who was much more buttoned down and less of a party guy. He could keep DiBiase on a straight path. It had nothing to do with credibility. That was from DiBiase's own book.

Quote:
Had they actually said "Whoever wins this belt wins a million... but if you lose you have to pay DiBiase a Million... or work as his "slave" to pay off your debt like Virgil" the angle could have worked... they tried it later with Nikolai, but it was too little too late.
LOL pay DiBiase a million dollars? Right, that's really realistic. I'm sure everybody had a million dollars just sitting in the bank account and they already did the "slave" angle with Hercules.

Last edited by Makaveli31 : 06-29-2017 at 02:24 PM.
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  #45  
Old 06-29-2017, 02:05 PM
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Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
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I like the work it off angle. Could have led to some good moments. But yeah, what you said is right. If they really wanted to invent a new title that would have had credibility, they should have put it on Barbarian.
Right!! Because he can "STRIVE" for the title and maybe JUST maybe if he put extra time in the gym he could actually WIN the WORLD title!! LOL
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  #46  
Old 06-29-2017, 03:12 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
No they don't "strive" for titles unless they are a "mark." Scott Hall said "beat me every night, but you have pay me." They strive to get their character over with the fans and as a result move up on the card and maybe they are handed the title. They don't "win it on their own." It does not matter which title. Any spot on a supercard means a substantial payday and a chance to get over with the fans. That's what they are there for. I would rather make $500,000 a year as a non-title guy vs $400,000 as the World Champion. It's simple as that.

I don't delve into the world of "fiction." You might believe every "character" strives for the title in the make believe fantasy world of pro wrestling but the REALITY is there can only be one and for guys like Ted DiBiase, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts they were not getting the ball. They were not supplanting Hogan, Warrior, or Savage. So Vince had to create angles, storylines, and different ways to get these guys over and "The Million Dollar Championship was one way. And it worked. They had a memorable feud over the "insignificant" championship in the lead up to WrestleMania 6. There is nothing "insignificant" about that.
I love--LOVE--when you argue your own point with...yourself. Who said "win it on their own"? And they don't strive for the title, but try to get over with the fans to make more money, by being given the title. Great point!! ...????

There can only be one? I guess you mean one at a time, which is so obvious, I am not sure why you would mention that. Virgil also had a memorable match with Nailz, right? Because, according to whatever is misfiring in your head, anything that we remember is memorable. That is what most people mean when they say memorable, right? ANYTHING that they remember.

Thanks for the Scott Hall quote. It has everything to do with the conversation we're having and really bolstered the debate.
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  #47  
Old 06-29-2017, 03:19 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
Right!! Because he can "STRIVE" for the title and maybe JUST maybe if he put extra time in the gym he could actually WIN the WORLD title!! LOL
Another great job not missing the point!

You are really hung up on the word "strive". You are clearly jobless. So is "strive" one of the buzzwords people threw at you, along with "no passion" and "waste"? Is this why it set you off?

Nobody reading this thread thinks I am under the impression that the outcomes aren't predetermined. That is understood by all, so you continually going back to it is truly--truly--sad. But to try to convince us--or yourself, pathetically--that these guys don't want all that comes with the top spot is incredibly...well, nave is an understatement...it's dumb, man. I know you need to get the last word in and think you win every argument, but take a break and regroup. Maybe take 10 minutes, watch every memorable Warlord and Barbarian match, then use the other 8 minutes to gather your thoughts. And by gather, I mean come up with a few.

Again, I know your ego (how can you have one with nothing going for you in life?) will make you fire back at me. But don't spend too much time there, as it is for you only. Try, instead, to make a good wrestling-related point.

Gee, I hate arguing with you because, unlike the memorable Barbarian and Warlord feuds, this is going nowhere.
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  #48  
Old 06-29-2017, 04:06 PM
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Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
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Another great job not missing the point!

You are really hung up on the word "strive". You are clearly jobless. So is "strive" one of the buzzwords people threw at you, along with "no passion" and "waste"? Is this why it set you off?
You said it not me. You said

Quote:
Also, no one strived to win that belt.
First of all, no one wins a belt. They are given the belt by Vince McMahon. Again, you said it not me. And missing the point? Just like you keep bring up Warlord and Barbarian and weaving them into an argument about the impact of "transitional title reigns" by the Iron Sheik and Sgt. Slaughter? Like that missing the point?

Quote:
Nobody reading this thread thinks I am under the impression that the outcomes aren't predetermined
I think that's debatable at this point. I mean you did say no one "strove" to "win" the Million Dollar belt. That's pretty markish if you ask me.

Quote:
that these guys don't want all that comes with the top spot is incredibly.
Of course they want it but they all can't have it. There is only one top spot so others have to adjust. You missed that point completely. But again, you don't seem the have a grasp on reality and you think people actually "win" belts.

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Again, I know your ego (how can you have one with nothing going for you in life?) will make you fire back at me. But don't spend too much time there, as it is for you only. Try, instead, to make a good wrestling-related point.
Coming from someone who posts just as much as I do? You must not have a life either.

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Gee, I hate arguing with you because, unlike the memorable Barbarian and Warlord feuds, this is going nowhere.
Right they probably should've spent more time in the gym training to "win" that top spot.

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to make a good wrestling-related point
Funny, I seem the debate THTRobTaylor just fine. He makes good, solid points and we have a spirited back and forth unlike you who continues to spew non-sense and show a lack of any intelligence whatsoever.
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  #49  
Old 06-29-2017, 05:30 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
First of all, no one wins a belt. They are given the belt by Vince McMahon.
This sums you up perfectly. This is absolutely ridiculous. So I am in the minority, who thinks people win belts? I mean, I know you're not smart, but this goes beyond. Come on, man. So Undetaker's WrestleMania record is 0 wins, 0 losses and twenty something Vince McMahon decisions? Hahaha. Yeah, your logic is right where it should be. Wow man...
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  #50  
Old 06-29-2017, 08:07 PM
Wildcat66 Wildcat66 is offline
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
First of all, no one wins a belt. They are given the belt by Vince McMahon. Again, you said it not me. And missing the point? Just like you keep bring up Warlord and Barbarian and weaving them into an argument about the impact of "transitional title reigns" by the Iron Sheik and Sgt. Slaughter? Like that missing the point?
Alright, I don't really have an opinion on the Million Dollar Belt per-say; but this I think should be addressed.

No one wins a belt...are you sure about that? Last I checked, if someone was booked in a title match and they were booked to win the belt, then for all intensive purposes; you win said belt. That's not striving for anything, that's wrestling 101. It's one of the easiest tricks in the book.
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