WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > The WrestleZone Forum Archives > The Wrestling Archives > Wrestlezolympics '10
Register FAQForum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Kenta Kobashi vs Shawn Michaels, Ironman Match
Kenta Kobashi 46 48.94%
Shawn Michaels 48 51.06%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-30-2010, 01:23 PM
Mr. Truth's Avatar
Mr. Truth Mr. Truth is offline
Real American Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 176
Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I originally had a rather lengthy post but I accidently hit the back button on my mouse and it got deleted. To sum it up, I've watched some Kobashi matches (the on posted against Vader, against Dr. Death in '93, and against Jun Akiyama in '04) since I wasn't that familiar with how he actually worked in the ring. After watching them, I concluded the guy can take a beating. Granted, he did lose two of the matches, but both were against bigger men who imposed their size advantage. Shawn Michaels doesn't have that advantage. Since Kobashi can take a beating, it would take more then a Sweet Chin Music to get a pin, and Kobashi has numerous moves that could probably score a pin. So I'm going to go with Kobashi, although narrowly. This would be one hell of a match that I would pay to see.
__________________

You too can have a bad but not funny bad sig too. Just ask me for one.
sendpm.gif
  #52  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:22 PM
HeartBreak King's Avatar
HeartBreak King HeartBreak King is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle Georgia
Age: 31
Posts: 3
HeartBreak King is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

i think people are seriously underestimating shawn michaels in this match. are we forgetting that this is The Showstopper, The Main Event, Mr. Wrestlemania we are talking about here. titles like that dont get handed out to just any ole slouch. HBK is widely considered one of the best in the WORLD, yet here he is being brushed off in a match against someone whom ive never even heard of until this tournament was announced. If kobashi is soooo good, how come he has never wrestled for any of the big companies over here in the US? if you pride yourself on being a great wrestler, shouldnt you want to bring your game to the highest level i.e. WWE or even the minor leagues i.e. TNA? Yet while HBK is wrestling in MOTY contests and headlining the biggest ppv's, kobashi is where...?
sendpm.gif
  #53  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:38 PM
Cena's Little Helper's Avatar
Cena's Little Helper Cena's Little Helper is offline
Registered User
WWE European Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The DMV
Posts: 1,889
Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...Cena's Little Helper is an Intercontinental Champion...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartBreak King View Post
i think people are seriously underestimating shawn michaels in this match. are we forgetting that this is The Showstopper, The Main Event, Mr. Wrestlemania we are talking about here. titles like that dont get handed out to just any ole slouch. HBK is widely considered one of the best in the WORLD, yet here he is being brushed off in a match against someone whom ive never even heard of until this tournament was announced. If kobashi is soooo good, how come he has never wrestled for any of the big companies over here in the US? if you pride yourself on being a great wrestler, shouldnt you want to bring your game to the highest level i.e. WWE or even the minor leagues i.e. TNA? Yet while HBK is wrestling in MOTY contests and headlining the biggest ppv's, kobashi is where...?
You want some too? I thought you said you wanted us to take it easy on you? Obviously, this isn't the case...

Firstly, I just want to say that you are either a troll, have a severe case of ADHD, or are just plain stupid. Where does it say in any of our posts that we consider Michaels a slouch? As we have said time and time again (here's how I know that you're one of the three things I just listed), it's not that Michaels is bad; rather, Kobashi is just flat-out better than him.

Also, with you throwing around your "match of the year" comments, I assume that you've been exposed to either Pro Wrestling Illustrated or The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, which are both publications that take Kobashi dick-sucking to a level that even xfearbefore (Mr. Eko) and myself can't take it to. Of course, I assume wrong here, as you probably just read wrestling forums and take keywords to insert into your posts to make yourself come off as intelligent (it has failed here big time, by the way).

Finally, as for why Kobashi has never wrestled in the US for any of the national promotions: why would he have to? He's one of Japan's five biggest wrestling stars ever, where he more than likely makes over a million US dollars a year wrestling for NOAH. Ultimately, that's the one thing WWE has over most other promotions: a bigger payday. But, why go there when you can get a huge paycheck and work in your own country?
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #54  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:57 PM
X's Avatar
X X is offline
RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM
Undisputed WWE Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 5,960
X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...X is a WWE Champion...
Send a message via AIM to X Send a message via MSN to X
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartBreak King View Post
i think people are seriously underestimating shawn michaels in this match.
Not at all. It's more like people (like you) CLEARLY know absolutely nothing about Kenta Kobashi.

Quote:
are we forgetting that this is The Showstopper, The Main Event, Mr. Wrestlemania we are talking about here. titles like that dont get handed out to just any ole slouch.
Uhh, what's your point here? He has nicknames? How is that relevant? Kobashi has plenty of nicknames as well. HBK is simply not even half of the worker that Kobashi is, and that's no disrespect to Shawn.

Quote:
HBK is widely considered one of the best in the WORLD, yet here he is being brushed off in a match against someone whom ive never even heard of until this tournament was announced.
Oh, cool, so then you ADMIT you're fucking clueless and don't know what the fuck you're talking about. That's nice. Kind of my point here.

Quote:
If kobashi is soooo good, how come he has never wrestled for any of the big companies over here in the US?
Umm, because why the fuck would he want to or need to? He's made a total of MAYBE a dozen appearances in the US in his entire career because he has no need to come over here when he's making millions of dollars wrestling in his own country, in front of more people, and gaining more respect for doing so.

Quote:
if you pride yourself on being a great wrestler, shouldnt you want to bring your game to the highest level i.e. WWE or even the minor leagues i.e. TNA?
Lol, such a stupid fucking attitude. Congratulations for exemplifying a little something known as "ethnocentrism", or the belief that your culture is superior to all others. How is the WWE the biggest level? You realize companies like AJPW, NJPW, and NOAH pull in an absolutely unfathomable amount of money in Japan, right?

Quote:
Yet while HBK is wrestling in MOTY contests and headlining the biggest ppv's, kobashi is where...?
Wrestling far more MOTY contests, at a more consistent level, headlining in front of larger crowds than Shawn Michaels has ever seen. That's where he was.

Feel free at any time to even attempt to know what the fuck you're talking about.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty NorCal View Post
Whenever something bad takes place in the world, the Rougeau's theme music starts playing and me and Xfear appear and beat people up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman Sam View Post
Women crying with blood all over them. Just how I like them.
sendpm.gif
  #55  
Old 02-02-2010, 05:01 PM
Mr. Truth's Avatar
Mr. Truth Mr. Truth is offline
Real American Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 176
Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

It's a damn shame that Shawn Michaels won and just goes to show you how too many people around here vote based on popularity and name value. The evidence put forth in this thread shows clearly that Kobashi should be the winner of this match. Oh well, guess that's how the cookie crumbles, so to speak.
__________________

You too can have a bad but not funny bad sig too. Just ask me for one.
sendpm.gif
  #56  
Old 02-03-2010, 02:17 AM
Dagger Dias's Avatar
Dagger Dias Dagger Dias is offline
Natural 20 G-Mod
Wrestlezone Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lorule
Age: 32
Posts: 8,861
Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...Dagger Dias is a WWE Champion...
Send a message via ICQ to Dagger Dias Send a message via AIM to Dagger Dias Send a message via MSN to Dagger Dias Send a message via Yahoo to Dagger Dias Send a message via Skype™ to Dagger Dias
Default

I'm getting a little tired of seeing "you guys know nothing about Kobashi!" being one of the main reasons for being upset that HBK won this match. I understand that you guys want the better man to win, but this whole issue of us Michaels fans not knowing enough about Kobashi isn't going to help. If Kobashi really was that awesome then how come some of us had to look him up on wikipedia just to know who he even is? I'm not saying that "more famous = better" because that's not entirely the case, but we're talking about Shawn Michaels here, he's a legend. He works for the #1 federation in the world and is recognized by millions worldwide. It would take someone as talented AND as well known in order for HBK to not deserve the win here because he's one of the best at what he does AND one of the most recognized stars in history.

This happens all the time in all sorts of discussions over whether something is better than something else. If someone likes one choice better than another, they are going to go with the one they picked. Shawn Michaels is one of my favorite wrestlers, so I voted for him. Sure, I was asked to vote for him, but I still looked up Kobashi and did some research to find out more about him. That didn't change my mind and I voted for HBK.

Whether you agree with me or not, HBK has won this match and I think we shouldn't make this big a deal out of it. More people picked HBK, so he wins. That's how winning by majority works. Sometimes your choice wins, sometimes they lose.
__________________
Come join the best section on the forum WrestleZone Championship Wrestling! You know you want to!



"And that's the bottom line, because DAGGER DIAS said so!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernkastel View Post
Dagger is the John Cena of this site.

Last edited by Dagger Dias : 02-03-2010 at 02:36 AM. Reason: typo
sendpm.gif
  #57  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:58 AM
Shadowmancer's Avatar
Shadowmancer Shadowmancer is offline
I am The Last Baron
ECW Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Strummerville
Age: 30
Posts: 3,533
Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...Shadowmancer is getting phone calls from TNA...
Default

And you fall straight into your own trap, WWE is the most well known product in the world. And is therefore in an almost monopoly situation when it comes to the world of Professional Wrestling, Kobashi does not fit the model of a WWE superstar, he is a Professional Wrestler. He entertains via wrestling his brand of Kings High Road style. There is a belief that is held that Wrestlers that are older, or did not wrestle in the United States are inferior to those which are wrestling in the United States now. Giant Fallacy and it is shown up here. It is a thirty minute Iron Man match and I can think of one thing here, Shawn Michaels doesn't win, he draws. case in point the last one I can think of was his 30 minute Iron Man Match against Kurt Angle. He drew. Kobashi on the other hand lost for two years straight when he was starting out. He is still a bigger draw than shawn michaels. And this was during a very competitive period between NJPW and AJPW.

I know the results are over but should not the alts that voted havebeen removed due to them being against the rules.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me To Mr Wrestling 3:I have called you the Last Great Journeyman Champion. Would you consider that a fair assessment, since it puts you in with the Likes of Brody, Race, Rhodes, Nature Boy and Thesz.
I would but on a very different level. While I spent years traveling the world as both the AWA and NWA World champion I never had the chance to draw the numbers that these guys did. Would I have been able to draw in the 60's and 70's? Maybe now in my 2008 shape and wrestling style but remember those guys worked 380 shots a year.
sendpm.gif
  #58  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:18 AM
Mr. Truth's Avatar
Mr. Truth Mr. Truth is offline
Real American Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 176
Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...Mr. Truth is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
If Kobashi really was that awesome then how come some of us had to look him up on wikipedia just to know who he even is?
Because the man doesn't wrestle outside of Japan. If you didn't wrestle in the US, chances are American wrestling fans don't know of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
Sure, I was asked to vote for him, but I still looked up Kobashi and did some research to find out more about him. That didn't change my mind and I voted for HBK.
And I thank you for doing that. If I just went with who I knew more of, I would have obviously gone with Shawn Michaels, but my research led me to believe that Kobashi would win. Unfortunately, I have this feeling that well over of the people (or people's alts, but that's another problem all together that I'll address briefly in a minute) who voted for Michaels either A) didn't do any research or B) didn't give it any thought nor read through the thread and said "Oh it's Mr. Wrestlemania vs some Japanese dude, wonder who'll win that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
More people picked HBK, so he wins. That's how winning by majority works.
Maybe in the future, matches should require a super majority ala the Senate does for preventing a filibuster. If that majority can't be achieved, either A) both advance, or B) a rematch should be held. In addition, it's quite possible that less people picked HBK to win, but had alternate accounts (and it is also possible that people did the same for Kobashi) so maybe the next time someone on WZ holds one of these, there can be a way to eliminate accounts with less then X number of posts or something of the like. Anyway, my rant is done, and I'm not upset with HBK winning, just the fact that most likely a lot of his supporters didn't give Kobashi a chance.
__________________

You too can have a bad but not funny bad sig too. Just ask me for one.
sendpm.gif
  #59  
Old 03-01-2010, 10:17 AM
TimtheKabim TimtheKabim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3
TimtheKabim is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

You guys here are pathetic! Really pathetic. I dont think anybody here knows anything about the business.

First of all, im a worker, so i know a thing or two more than anybody

My trainer is Don Callis, who is a good friend of Chris Jericho, and Don isnt the greatest guy.
Callis was only in wwf and ecw and a lot of indies, only travelled the world as IWA champ and produced some international TV, who would ever want to get trained by someonme like that (sarcasim)...
Later Don transitioned from being a worker to being on the writing staff (at the time like 3 guys, before they started hiring TV writers and it started sucking) then we burnt out (cause with vince and the writing staff its like a 24-7 job) and then went to ECW as cyrus (during that time is when he started training) and because I got trained by a name I got to meet and work with other names he knew (rhino, kurragan, road warriors, etc...), I lucked out in that sense..


Second.


You guys are insulting us trained professionals with this rhetoric you guys spew. And I could care less if you believe me or not, I got trained by a former WWF guy and head writer and actually pursued it and worked in a ring with some big names before getting out and focusing on school, I didn't sit on the sidelines.
And before you guys starting acting like you know so much, get in the ring and work a few years, and have a few shoot- matches.

Third


I worked for 7 years and my best friend is the hottest Indy-worker in the world, wrestlet in Japan, ROH, JAPW, and worked for WWE before asking for his release, so I know a thing or two. Everything you said is wrong.
My bf was in WWE, a friend who I trained with for Wrestling but in the last 3 years he made the transition is in MMA and goes to Japan a few times a year, but Im not bringing them into this.


If you guys wanna respond do it with knowlegde, not stupid fanboy ranting shit.
HBK is one of the greatest Mainstream Pro-wrestler of all time. He can make one kip-up more dramatic than a technical guy hitting 5 German suplexes in a row. He knows how to 'work' the audience.. and that is why he was so innovative in so many gimmick matches (ladder, HITC) as well... he used psychology to emphasis the importance of the gimmick. HBK is more versiltle than most of the guys, and i dont think you guys give HBK the credit he deserves, just because hes a Mainstream Wrestler.

Hell there are plently of wrestling who in North America who are better than HBK technically. But from an in-ring performance based on drama, drawing a crowd in and telling a compelling story then HBK is one of the best. His WM matches alone are becoming unique selling points yearly based on their high standards.




You cant really compare Puro with Mainstream.
Japanese wrestling is a different beast to mainstream so in some ways it is difficult to compare. Its far stiffer etc....






In the end Kobashi is lightyears better than HBK.
Kobashis Wrestling-abillity was and still is just awesome, and you cant compare it to many wrestlers.

Watch every match of Kobashi in the 90s and tell me that he dindt told the best Story in every single damn match! Kobashi is a better In-Ring performer than HBK ever was, and his skills are nearly unmatches. I personally, as a Worker would rank him in Top 5 easily. Hell easily Top 3. Kobashi is the best puro ever, thats not a strecht, not at all.
Michaels never was better than Kobashi, not in the 90s, and not today( And Michaels is still great today, but Kobashi is still better!! )


Kobashi beats HBK in every way when it comes to ringwork, period.

If someone heres a legit Worker, im sure they agree with me..

If someone votes HBK here, they never seen Kobashi wrestle and are pathetic WWE-marks.


WWE-fanboys need to watch Kenta Kobashi matches in a locked room clockwork orange-style for 48 hours -then they will see what a Pro-wrestler is suppose to be.



And yes, I'm in the know, I was fortunate enough to work with some names and took the opportunity to learn from them, problem is we don't have the territories really anymore, you have cookie cutter developmental systems that produce crap (Cena, goldberg, most of the guys coming out now...my friend was so miserable there he left the fed, thats saying something for how bad its gotten!) and are taught by guys who suck (Hugh Morris, 'Sarge')

Last edited by TimtheKabim : 03-01-2010 at 10:52 AM.
sendpm.gif
  #60  
Old 03-01-2010, 02:06 PM
TheThirdHebner's Avatar
TheThirdHebner TheThirdHebner is offline
Future Endeavored
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 29
TheThirdHebner is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I think the right guy won here. Kobashi is an amazing wrestler, and he's fun to watch, but HBK is a better worker. Puro is just an easier style to do. To me, the art in professional wrestling is to make it look like you're hurting someone and hitting them while doing as little actual damage as possible. Working stiff is a shortcut. The Japanese style is centered around being stiff, and, to me, it's easy to look like you're hitting someone when you're, you know, actually hitting them.

By the same token, HBK, for all of his faults (and I don't like the guy at all), is a very safe worker by all accounts, and you barely feel it when he's on the offensive, including his very well done superkick finisher.

From a kayfabe perspective, it's pretty much even in my mind. Both guys were very good, championship-caliber guys. Neither was overly dominant, they both won and lost often. So I broke kayfabe and went with the better worker. Both are very good workers, very good at what they do...in my mind, Shawn's got a higher level of difficulty, and looks just as good, so I would have voted for him.
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices