WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > The WrestleZone Forum Archives > The Wrestling Archives
Register FAQForum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 05-13-2012, 01:13 PM
ultramattman ultramattman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 186
ultramattman is looking to come up from OCW...ultramattman is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Again, no idea why so many people want to eliminate a perfectly good World Heavyweight Championship just to elevate the midcard titles. Why bother? Isn't the WHC good enough as a #2 belt? It's certainly a hell of a lot more credible than the current limp version of the IC or US titles. So why are THOSE the ones you want to keep? Rather than sacrifice a strong belt to elevate a weak one, why not just keep the strong belt???

I'd unify the midcard belts, if anything. Eliminate the beyond-pointless U.S. Title and have a midcard champion that floats between brands like the tag champs do. Keep WWE and WHC titles to drive their respective shows.
sendpm.gif
  #22  
Old 05-14-2012, 03:17 AM
Why Always Me's Avatar
Why Always Me Why Always Me is offline
WWF Champion
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 330
Why Always Me is looking to come up from OCW...Why Always Me is looking to come up from OCW...Why Always Me is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKO920 View Post
Let's start with Wrestlemania 6, yes the main event had the IC Title in it but it was Ultimate Warrior (IC Champ) vs Hulk Hogan (WWE Champ) Title vs Title so while it was part of the match the grand prize was the WWE Title. Warrior didn't even keep the IC Title after he won the WWE Title. Summerslam 92 I will give you the title did main event that particular card, but only because Davy Boy Smith was in his home country taking on Bret Hart, if that match happened anywhere else in the world it would not have been the main event. It still would have been a great match but it wouldn't have had the same effect if it was in Newark, NJ as it did in England.

Ziggler may be the number 3 worker in ring in the WWE right now behind Punk and Bryan, he's great on the mic, and gets a reaction every time. I would much rather see him in the title picture over a guy like Del Rio or even Sheamus, who I do like but Ziggler has been around and taken the road to stardom.

Sure in the Attitude Era there were the main guys that all went after the WWE title, but that was a different time. When WCW was purchased and ECW was absorbed the roster became huge, in comparison to the Attitude Era it is still a very large roster. You need the second show and a second title to showcase all of these superstars. While the World Heavyweight Title may be considered the "B" title look at those who held it and tell me they are "B" superstars. Guys like Edge, Undertaker, Batista, Triple H, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, and Randy Orton all have been World Heavyweight Champion. During a lot of those World Heavyweight Championship runs look who was WWE Champion. Guys like Eddie Guerrero, JBL, and Rob Van Dam. If there is no second title great wrestlers such as these do not even sniff the title picture and are stuck being midcarders for life and we may not speak of how great Eddie Guerrero was or how JBL had a long title run on Smackdown.

So while you may not like having a two title system in the long run it has helped build a lot of stars who otherwise may have never been heard from or if they did maybe years after their prime and missed out on some great matches.
The point I was trying to make was that the Intercontinental title should be the stepping stone to being a WWE Champion. Having the World title has a stepping stone devalues the World title.

The World title should be the top prize in a company, not the joint top prize or a stepping stone to the WWE title. Once again, 12 years ago people were not saying lets create a second WWF World title so that Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero and CHris Benoit could become World champions. No, The Rock, Triple H and Stone Cold were WWF champin whilst Jericho, Angle, Guerrero and Benoit were fighting over the Intercontinental title and even the European title. Guys do not need to to be rushed into a World title reign, Scott Hall, Mr Perfect, Rick Rude and Roddy Piper were IC champions and yet were massive parts of the WWF back in the day.

Everyone nowadays sees someone with a bit of potential and then wants them to be a World champion straight away. Surely if Dolph Ziggler won the WWE championship it would mean more if there was only one version of a WWE World title. With a lot of people on here, we may as well bring back the ECW title so that Rhodes, Ziggler and Christain can ALL be champion.

Quote from Ric Flair, one great company, one great champion.

Quote from Stone Cold Steve Austin, if you are not hear to be the champion, then you got no business being here.

Two of the best ever hammering home the importance of being champion and having just one World title. Both titles now do not mean as much as they should, when was the last time a ppv was main evented by a title match? October? Two of the last 3 Wrestlemania's have had a non title match close the show, the last 2 manias have had a World title match open the show, meaning winning the Royal Rumble means jack now.

People have had 2 World titles in the WWE for ten years now, and think its an easy way to get **INSERT FAVOURITE WRESTLER** as a World champion. Like I have said, Ziggler and Rhodes are not yet ready to be champions, this is why the Intercontinental title is there, it should be used to make guys ready for the WWE Title, like it was for Bret Hart, Stone Cold, Triple H, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels etc.

Like I said, ANYONE on here who wants to debate this with me, bring it on
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The S#cial Sector View Post
What in the world were you smoking? I need some, like yesterday.
sendpm.gif
  #23  
Old 05-14-2012, 07:43 AM
theBec2101 theBec2101 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 509
theBec2101 is looking to come up from OCW...theBec2101 is looking to come up from OCW...theBec2101 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Its funny how people say it wont work or its a bad idea. It worked well in the attitude era. They has more stars then to. I think it would work and then a littlel down the road bring another title back. Kinda switch it up. I honestly would of liked the idea of jericho comming back and fueding with both Punk and Bryan, stating in the video packages that either of them wernt worthy. And at WrestleMania they would of had a triple threat for the Unification of the title. Wouldnt of really cared who would of won it. I think it would of been a 100% better then Bryan jobbing out in 18 sec. Then somewhere down the line in another storyline bring back. They could of had Punk win at mania for the unify belts and they want a rematch at a ppv and Jericho does the Walls and DB does the Yes-lock at the sametime and Punk taps out and they split the titles caus there was no clear cut winner. If only creative would do somework, and develope better storylines.
sendpm.gif
  #24  
Old 05-14-2012, 11:45 AM
ultramattman ultramattman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 186
ultramattman is looking to come up from OCW...ultramattman is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Always Me View Post
Like I said, ANYONE on here who wants to debate this with me, bring it on
All right, I'll bite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Always Me View Post
The point I was trying to make was that the Intercontinental title should be the stepping stone to being a WWE Champion. Having the World title has a stepping stone devalues the World title.

The World title should be the top prize in a company, not the joint top prize or a stepping stone to the WWE title.
- It does devalue the WHC somewhat, insofar as it's clearly a step below the WWE title. The WHC is definitely no longer the top prize. But is that a reason to just toss out the title entirely? The WHC is devalued slightly when compared to the WWE title, but it's still a very strong belt and a HELL of a lot stronger than the IC and US belts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Always Me View Post
The Rock, Triple H and Stone Cold were WWF champin whilst Jericho, Angle, Guerrero and Benoit were fighting over the Intercontinental title and even the European title. Guys do not need to to be rushed into a World title reign, Scott Hall, Mr Perfect, Rick Rude and Roddy Piper were IC champions and yet were massive parts of the WWF back in the day.
And nowadays, the exact same thing happens, except with the WHC instead of the IC title. So again, what's the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Always Me View Post
Both titles now do not mean as much as they should, when was the last time a ppv was main evented by a title match? October? Two of the last 3 Wrestlemania's have had a non title match close the show, the last 2 manias have had a World title match open the show, meaning winning the Royal Rumble means jack now.
I'm in a STRONG minority here, but I have no problem with the WHC match opening Wrestlemania. Why is opening Wrestlemania an insult? Strikes me as one of the most important matches on the card. Now if the WHC was routinely opening PPV's, I'd have a problem. Wrestlemania is different.

As for the Royal Rumble, just because the winner has opened the last two Manias doesn't mean next year's has to. Winning the Royal Rumble will ALWAYS be prestigious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Always Me View Post
Like I have said, Ziggler and Rhodes are not yet ready to be champions, this is why the Intercontinental title is there, it should be used to make guys ready for the WWE Title, like it was for Bret Hart, Stone Cold, Triple H, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels etc.
Cody Rhodes has not yet held the WHC. Neither did Dolph, really. Both held the IC title for long runs. But again, what does it matter if the WHC or IC titles are used for this 'stepping stone' purpose? Why is the IC the 'right' belt to use as a stepping stone? Couldn't either belt do the job just as well?

My overall point is that the WHC, these days, is an elevated version of the old IC belt. It's the #2, but it's a stronger #2 than the IC when it was #2, if that makes sense. Personally, I think this is great. Why wouldn't you want your #2 to be as strong as possible? People should be clamoring to unify the midcard titles, not the world titles.
sendpm.gif
  #25  
Old 05-14-2012, 10:03 PM
RKO920 RKO920 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 141
RKO920 is looking to come up from OCW...RKO920 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Always Me View Post
The point I was trying to make was that the Intercontinental title should be the stepping stone to being a WWE Champion. Having the World title has a stepping stone devalues the World title.

The World title should be the top prize in a company, not the joint top prize or a stepping stone to the WWE title. Once again, 12 years ago people were not saying lets create a second WWF World title so that Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero and CHris Benoit could become World champions. No, The Rock, Triple H and Stone Cold were WWF champin whilst Jericho, Angle, Guerrero and Benoit were fighting over the Intercontinental title and even the European title. Guys do not need to to be rushed into a World title reign, Scott Hall, Mr Perfect, Rick Rude and Roddy Piper were IC champions and yet were massive parts of the WWF back in the day.

Everyone nowadays sees someone with a bit of potential and then wants them to be a World champion straight away. Surely if Dolph Ziggler won the WWE championship it would mean more if there was only one version of a WWE World title. With a lot of people on here, we may as well bring back the ECW title so that Rhodes, Ziggler and Christain can ALL be champion.

Quote from Ric Flair, one great company, one great champion.

Quote from Stone Cold Steve Austin, if you are not hear to be the champion, then you got no business being here.

Two of the best ever hammering home the importance of being champion and having just one World title. Both titles now do not mean as much as they should, when was the last time a ppv was main evented by a title match? October? Two of the last 3 Wrestlemania's have had a non title match close the show, the last 2 manias have had a World title match open the show, meaning winning the Royal Rumble means jack now.

People have had 2 World titles in the WWE for ten years now, and think its an easy way to get **INSERT FAVOURITE WRESTLER** as a World champion. Like I have said, Ziggler and Rhodes are not yet ready to be champions, this is why the Intercontinental title is there, it should be used to make guys ready for the WWE Title, like it was for Bret Hart, Stone Cold, Triple H, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels etc.

Like I said, ANYONE on here who wants to debate this with me, bring it on
Sure, 12 years ago it was a completely different company with a SMALLER roster. Once the purchase of WCW was complete and the takeover of ECW and you now had this huge roster of talent, what else are you supposed to do? There had to be a roster split and there had to be 2 world titles, of course the WWE Title is more important, it's Vince's title, the WHC was handed to him so it is always going to be secondary. Just like Smackdown is the secondary show to Raw. 12 years ago yes you had some amazing talent on the roster; Austin, Rock, (full time) Undertaker, (full time) Triple H, Kurt Angle, just to name a few. The guys who were capable or even believable to be in the title picture 12 years ago was very small, maybe 7-8 guys. Fast forward 12 years and now you have CM Punk, John Cena, Sheamus, Randy Orton, Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, Daniel Bryan, Chris Jericho, Mark Henry, now even a Lord Tensai who will be in the title picture along with others. The roster is deep and right now given the right story sure I could absolutely believe Dolph Ziggler as a title holder, Cody Rhodes I will give you needs just a little more polishing but he will hold the WHC sometime in 2012.

It's a completely new generation. Razor, Piper, Perfect, and Rick Rude in this generation would have been champions, WHC or WWE Champions? Who knows but they would have been champions because with this roster the cream rises to the top, the guys who work the best and those who kiss ass get rewarded. The IC and US titles now are given to those who are up and coming as their first taste of what it is like in the big time to see if they can carry the load. Gone are the days where the IC title went to the guy who was "next in line" or the guy who "would steal the show."

I watched the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart Rivals DVD, in it they both talked about the importance of winning the IC title. But that was the 90's this is 2012. You are given a chance if you win the IC title or US title then handed the ball with the WHC and then when you can carry the company on your back you become WWE champion.
sendpm.gif
  #26  
Old 05-14-2012, 10:47 PM
MWRedskins MWRedskins is offline
Registered User
WWF Hardcore Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,176
MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...MWRedskins worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

i still like having BOTH titles. sure the shows are more combined now, BUT with two titles it means more main event players which is the key reason i like two titles. with two titles, we can have guys like both Seamus and Punk hold top titles.
sendpm.gif
  #27  
Old 05-15-2012, 03:34 AM
tripleddd tripleddd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 192
tripleddd is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

This is my favourite old chestnut of all time! First things first - Unify the WWE and the WHC belt to create wwe undisputed champion. Why ? I beleive the WWE is slowly heading back towards the attitude era although I dont believe it will do all the way.Two champions devalues both titles - it also led to Super Cena Super Edge and Super Orton winning the titles 5 million times and also kept giving us repetative matches Cena vs Orton, Edge vs Orton Cena vs Edge - this made it all very stale. Ive read the comments the WHC title is a stepping stone to the WWE title - thats nonsense the WHC is a top title too.The IC title or the US title should be the stepping stone. Not everybody has to be WWE or WHC title holders there are plenty of excellent wrestlers who only get to be IC champion. Sheamus for instance has now been champion 3 times but can you honestly say you can remember the two previous runs I cant because it wasn't his time - this run gives him more kudos. It also brings in matches like no 1 contenders matches remember them - plenty of storylines and sub plots can be added. One company - one main title. Oddly enough if ECW was still around I would have bought into that - but thats for another day.
How when and whom? Well i think the belt needs to be unified at the Night of Champions - a bit like they done before WWE holder vs no 1 contender & WHC holder vs No 1 contender - the respective winners go on to Unify the belts that night.At the moment Punk,Sheamus , Bryan and Y2J all being invovled - my winner would be Y2J as it was before when he defeated both The Rock and Austin in one night. It would be a fitting reward for Chris. This story could be built up in the predeceeding weeks with a series of tag team matches/ singles matches between these characters.
Doing this also leaves alot of other wrestlers to start building on other title chases and could do the Tag Team titles the world of good by pairing wrestlers up for a short time.
Finally can you imagine Y2J just being crowned undisputed champion and Brock Lesnar or randy Orton then step into the ring F5 or RKO him ???????????
sendpm.gif
  #28  
Old 05-15-2012, 03:51 AM
s77's Avatar
s77 s77 is offline
Jericho fan
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 9
s77 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I disagree with the idea of unification, mainly because it wouldn't give opportunity to most of the superstars to get a major title.
sendpm.gif
  #29  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:21 AM
tripleddd tripleddd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 192
tripleddd is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s77 View Post
I disagree with the idea of unification, mainly because it wouldn't give opportunity to most of the superstars to get a major title.
I think that is the point every superstar can not or does not need to have a title - it devalues the titles and the superstars
sendpm.gif
  #30  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:42 AM
Davi323's Avatar
Davi323 Davi323 is offline
semi-retired from WZ
ECW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: near Grand Rapids, Michigan
Age: 43
Posts: 2,281
Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...Davi323 scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great White Sam View Post
I have a question. A maths question.

Which is greater - one world champion or two world champions?
Depends on how you look at it. If you treat the belt as a legit championship, signifying the best of the best on the roster, than one championship is clearly better than two. One champion out of a roster of 60 is more important/meaningful than two champions each representing a roster of 30. With one title, each championship run is more meaningful, because there will be less of them to spread around.

However, if you view the championships as TV props, then it makes far more sense to have two, so that you can have a top level title on both shows without stretching out a single title holder. One champion spread out between both shows has to work harder than two champions, one show each. From a logistical standpoint, it's easier to write your storylines for each show when you don't have to worry about rushing the Smackdown angles to play off of Raw. Each show's creative team can plan their own storylines for the title without having to constantly reference what the other show is doing. Because the WWE uses a separate team of writers to plan out each show, it makes more sense to have two titles.

If the WWE were to combine everything and formally terminate the brand extension, then it would make more sense to unify the belts. The NFL doesn't have two Super Bowl champions each year, only one team is given the Stanley Cup, two racers don't win the Sprint championship, etc. Basically, with brand extension in place, you need two titles. Without brand extension, you only need one.
__________________
Why is it that the people who know the least know it the loudest?
sendpm.gif
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices