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Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Who Was The Wrestler Of The Year?
Daniel Bryan 20 30.77%
Roman Reigns 2 3.08%
Randy Orton 4 6.15%
John Cena 6 9.23%
Cesaro 4 6.15%
Brock Lesnar 13 20.00%
AJ Styles 16 24.62%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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  #71  
Old 12-16-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Killjoy View Post
See, this is where what you do gets you so much heat. You, in all your self belief, actually think the IWGP title is more valuable than the WWE title. If you can't find what's wrong with that, there's no point in talking to you because you're more stubborn than a fundamentalist Christian.
Explain to me how it's not. I also asked you to debate with me who you think has had as many good matches as AJ Styles has had this year and you have just decided not to retort. Its been in existence 27 years, some of the best pro-wrestlers of all-time have held it in those 27 years, it has been defended in-front of 70,000 people at one point, as much as a WrestleMania. And the big reason, as I mentioned, I think it's either on par or maybe a little bit more prestiged than the WWE title, is the way they treat it.

Often, in WWE, the title comes across as a mere prop. You don't get that from the IWGP Heavyweight title. When you watch a NJPW event you sense how important it is, their guys talk about dying for it. But hey, Brock Lesnar's defended the WWE title once in four months so you know, guess it wins.

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I already said what I thought about Zayn and Owens. It can be argued what Daniel did in those 4 months was far more than what AJ did in his full year in NJPW. Which is why he's inching away with the poll. But I know you're just gonna retort with AJ being IWGP Champion.
If you really think that and like throwing around the word "insane", turn to the nearest mirror and say it three times. Look what's staring back at you. You'll have an answer. What Bryan did in four months isn't comparable to what Styles did in 2014.

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Has anyone mentioned his rash of Styles Clash botches this year? Not his fault, I know.
Nope, but funny you mention that. I haven't heard the audio yet, haven't had a chance, but Styles spoke to the Observer yesterday for an interview and spoke about the Styles Clash and how three of the four people this year who have taken bad Styles Clashes have apologized after to him and taken responsibility for the botch. Except for one. Lionheart. And AJ knows that the reason hes made such a fuss about it is, he's a nobody, really. Not Styles' words but it's what he meant. He's just a wrestler from the UK who nobody not from England probably ever heard of, and he knew it was a way for him to create some buzz and play the victim, but Yoshi Tatsu came to AJ in Japan and told him to not stop using the Styles Clash because it wasn't his fault, it was Yoshi's.

Not related to who the best wrestler is, but interesting nonetheless. Remix will love to read it I'm sure.
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  #72  
Old 12-16-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dragon Saga View Post
You have literally not provided one single example of any criticism you have had of AJ Styles.
Really?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
He starts off all his matches slowly boring me to tears, he hits his stupid looking moves like the Styles Clash and he can't cut a decent promo to save his life.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
And you think, what? That AJ's year was better because he showed up at NJPW, winning the title, competing in about 10 matches, then putting on a lame telegraphed spot-after-spot match with Tanahashi where he drops the title??
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
I saw his matches with Tanahashi, Kyle O'Reilly, Adam Cole, etc. They're okay. Some of them are even boring.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
AJ Styles showed up to NJPW and was given the title in his first match. The match wasn't stellar, the guy gets the title and then that's it.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
AJ has never had a good promo. Honestly, he has the charisma of a loaf of bread. That also comes off in his matches. He can pull off some good chain-wrestling, but he doesn't really have the screen presence to tell an amazing story
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
And like I said above, it also doesn't help that the Styles Clash looks absolutely stupid for both the guy taking it and the guy delivering it.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
I definitely need to check out some of the matches on your list, but one that stands out is the title match with Tanahashi which I found particularly boring.It's one of the overrated matches of the year. Starts off very slow and then they telegraph every spot. Of the ones I've seen, I think the Triple Threat is probably the best, but I still don't think it holds a candle to the Fatal 4 Way at NXT Takeover.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
Maybe if he trained in NXT and improved on promos, facial expressions and ring psychology like Sami has, AJ might have been as good as Sami has been this year.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
He has no charisma, his promos suck whether you want to say otherwise, and his matches are telegraphed movements with lots of spots that don't make any sense in the context of the match. And I can's stress this enough, but some of his moves just look stupid.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
AJ Styles reminds me of Gregory Helms. Solid wrestler who can not only put on good matches, but carry awful opponents to good matches as well. But has anyone ever called Gregory the Best in the World? No. He would need a hell of a lot of work to be the Top wrestler in the world, and while AJ is being booked like it, it doesn't mean it's true. Jeff Jarrett booked himself into 12 world title reigns. That doesn't make him the Best wrestler in the world.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
I said it in a post above and you didn't address it, but just because AJ Styles is treated like a big deal doesn't mean he is. He's definitely not as good as he says he is and he's not as good as the hype he gets.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
A lot of his moves are awkward, his ring psychology is no good, and yeah, his promos especially suck. None of his promos this year have been good either.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
You're confusing what is an increased sense of confidence on the microphone (which is evident in NJPW), with actual talent. Is he better because he stutters less? No, that doesn't mean anything. He can't act worth a dime, and his promos come off as a someone faking his way through a character. His promos range from bland to boring to terrible. How you could sit there and type that he has done entertaining promos is beyond me.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
I watched more of those videos you posted and some of them were too boring to finish through. AJ Styles comes off as entertaining as a doorknob and he almost always has. WWE recognizes it and that's why he's never been the big deal he wants. AJ Styles isn't worth it. He's all hype. He's basically Jeff Jarrett. Someone who got to be World Champion among a roster of "new guys", and after establishing himself as a veteran, he got to ride that hype until forever. Now he's in Japan where he didn't have to do anything to get a push.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
He's not even the best wrestler in NJPW, let alone best wrestler of the year.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
In 2014, you're posting up a match like AJ vs. O'Reilly and saying that's one of his highlights of the year. Really?? That average match is what you consider one of the best of the year? The only way AJ can telegraph his moves more is with a giant teleprompter facing the camera telling him what to do.
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Originally Posted by NegativeFeedback View Post
Well, I had already watched some of those matches, and watched a few more, and they only confirmed what I was already thinking. AJ's moves are all telegraphed, they don't always make sense with what he's doing, he doesn't take account what offense he's already done when performing other moves, etc. He's not a story-teller. He's a guy who can hit individual moves very well, but struggles in setting up a coherent story unless put across another masterful storyteller. But of course, there's a lot of people who enjoy that type of wrestling. Just move after move and as long as it looks pretty, it's okay, but that's not my cup of tea.
If you can read through all 5-or-6 of my posts including all the quotes above and say with a straight face that I "literally haven't provided a SINGLE example of criticism" than you're obviously just being a troll.

As for Sami Zayn, like I also said below, splashing like a magikarp is exactly the type of thing he had to GET RID OF to become as good as he is now. Saying that he doesn't flail like a fish anymore isn't a criticism, it's a good thing. He's learning in NXT how to work matches that make sense, where each spot flows into the next one in a way that makes sense and helps suspend disbelief. His style was more comical, and now he's much more credible as a serious top guy. AJ Styles however sucks at that, and after each spot, he slows down with an implicit period of "And now for my next trick, I'm gonna..." and then he performs his next move. It's insulting to a viewer like me who wants to see a fight that isn't so obviously fake.

AJ Styles is good, but not great. And there are plenty of great wrestlers who deserve to be nominated at the top. Just because he got paid good money to beat a bunch of better and more entertaining wrestlers doesn't make him the best wrestler in the world.
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  #73  
Old 12-16-2014, 02:28 PM
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What makes the "Wrestler Of The Year" the "Wrestler Of The Year"? Titles? Performances? PPV Buy Rates / Ratings? Heat? Booking? Push? The federation? Promos? Complete package?

Basically, it comes down to your own personal preference. I can't be arsed with this whole "My preference is greater than your preference!" BS running this thread at the moment.

I'll simply say I've given my vote to Cesaro for providing quality bouts and receiving great heat despite some extremely ill advised booking AND inconsistent push. While Lesnar, Styles and Zayn have claims to this crown - all have received very strong pushes and booking... would anyone say the same for Cesaro?

On a side note, I agree that both Rollins and Ambrose deserve to be on this list... I also believe that both Lashley (for his TNA WHC run) and Ziggler (still trying to work out the Nickelback level disrespect he regularly gets about here) had strong claims for nomination.
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  #74  
Old 12-16-2014, 02:38 PM
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Really?
If you can read through all 5-or-6 of my posts including all the quotes above and say with a straight face that I "literally haven't provided a SINGLE example of criticism" than you're obviously just being a troll.
I think the point is that when your criticisms are asinine as:

AJ Styles is "boring", his matches are "boring", and he shows "no charisma" in the ring, he has "no psychology", his matches are a series of "telegraphed spots", he needs to "improve his facial expressions", AJ versus O'Reilly was "average", he's "not a storyteller", etc. etc. Yada, yada, bullshit, stupidity, etc.

Then no one is going to take your criticisms seriously and they are just gonna gloss right over them. Because literally everything you just quoted yourself saying is individually one of the dumbest things spoken on this board, and all taken as a group show you to be either ignorant, clueless, or both.

Dragon Saga may be unintentionally trolling, but you on the other hand are either intentionally trolling and believe none of the objectively false shit you're spewing about Styles or you're an absolute idiot who has no clue whatsoever what it is he is watching. I hope for your sake it's the former, because if its the latter then please give up on this sport because its way over your head.
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  #75  
Old 12-16-2014, 03:40 PM
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If you can read through all 5-or-6 of my posts including all the quotes above and say with a straight face that I "literally haven't provided a SINGLE example of criticism" than you're obviously just being a troll.
It's all the exact same thing over and over again. You aren't providing examples, you aren't providing anything credible. You're just saying generic keyboard warrior lingo that wrestling fans use to criticize a wrestlers in-ring performance. So, try again. Try harder. Just try.

Quote:
AJ Styles however sucks at that, and after each spot, he slows down with an implicit period of "And now for my next trick, I'm gonna..." and then he performs his next move. It's insulting to a viewer like me who wants to see a fight that isn't so obviously fake.
You've never actually seen an AJ Styles match, have you? Are you confusing him with The Young Bucks? The Young Bucks are two guys and AJ Styles is one. It's a pretty hard mistake to make mate. Maybe get your eyes checked out.

Quote:
AJ Styles is good, but not great.
Well 15 people voted for him here and Zayn wasn't even nominated so, I'm going to say he's pretty great.

Quote:
A And there are plenty of great wrestlers who deserve to be nominated at the top. Just because he got paid good money to beat a bunch of better and more entertaining wrestlers doesn't make him the best wrestler in the world.
Actually it kind of does. I don't think you completely understand wrestling :/

But nevertheless, AJ Styles is the best wrestler in the world because of his talent, because of his pacing, because of his diversity, understanding of what makes a good, compelling wrestling match as well as his presence in the ring and how despite his lack of ability to speak he is able to convey his feelings through his movements in the ring. He has several great matches this year, as I have stated before, none of which have been matched by a match involving Sami Zayn. I'd say the weakest of the best matches Styles has had this year was vs. Adam Cole at All Star Extravaganza VI and even that is on-par with Zayn vs. Cesaro, 2 out of 3 falls. Hes won a much more important title than Zayn, he did it immediately showing how well he was viewed by the bookers, he was the first gaijin to win the title in nine years and the person to do it before him was Brock Lesnar. He went from being hated by the Japanese audience to being loved due to his quality and talent. He drew more people to larger arenas on bigger shows and he is ending 2014 as the face of NJPW's first North American PPV, and has been labeled by Jim Ross, "the biggest mistake I ever made as the head of talent relations".

If this was a boxing match, I'd have had you KO'd in the first second of the first round by whistling in your direction.
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  #76  
Old 12-16-2014, 10:44 PM
NegativeFeedback NegativeFeedback is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dragon Saga View Post
It's all the exact same thing over and over again. You aren't providing examples, you aren't providing anything credible. You're just saying generic keyboard warrior lingo that wrestling fans use to criticize a wrestlers in-ring performance. So, try again. Try harder. Just try.



You've never actually seen an AJ Styles match, have you? Are you confusing him with The Young Bucks? The Young Bucks are two guys and AJ Styles is one. It's a pretty hard mistake to make mate. Maybe get your eyes checked out.



Well 15 people voted for him here and Zayn wasn't even nominated so, I'm going to say he's pretty great.



Actually it kind of does. I don't think you completely understand wrestling :/

But nevertheless, AJ Styles is the best wrestler in the world because of his talent, because of his pacing, because of his diversity, understanding of what makes a good, compelling wrestling match as well as his presence in the ring and how despite his lack of ability to speak he is able to convey his feelings through his movements in the ring. He has several great matches this year, as I have stated before, none of which have been matched by a match involving Sami Zayn. I'd say the weakest of the best matches Styles has had this year was vs. Adam Cole at All Star Extravaganza VI and even that is on-par with Zayn vs. Cesaro, 2 out of 3 falls. Hes won a much more important title than Zayn, he did it immediately showing how well he was viewed by the bookers, he was the first gaijin to win the title in nine years and the person to do it before him was Brock Lesnar. He went from being hated by the Japanese audience to being loved due to his quality and talent. He drew more people to larger arenas on bigger shows and he is ending 2014 as the face of NJPW's first North American PPV, and has been labeled by Jim Ross, "the biggest mistake I ever made as the head of talent relations".

If this was a boxing match, I'd have had you KO'd in the first second of the first round by whistling in your direction.
So basically you're dismissing my criticisms because you think they aren't genuine. Well, there's not much I can do about you putting fingers to your ear and going Na na na. If you enjoy AJ's strengths enough to overlook his flaws, that's fair, but to say they don't exist is just idiotic.

Like with O'Reilly, there's a point where AJ takes his time going to the top rope in the middle of the match while Kyle crawls to the center of the ring. Kyle looks back to see if AJ is in position, and AJ cues Kyle to stand up, Kyle stands up and AJ then hits his crossbody. This whole moment takes like 30 seconds. So when he's lying next to Kyle, goes up, and cues him to move, this is the period of "And for my next trick" that I was talking about. There's also the front missle dropick Kyle hits to AJ on the outside of the ring. AJ flies out of the ring, and says "Welp, Kyle needs to hit me with the signature, so let me crawl and sit in this chair for no fucking reason, except to let Kyle hit his move". It's kinda bullshit how Rey Mysterio always gets his opponents into the 2nd rope for the 619, but it's fine when those guys make sure they end up their in a logical way by stumbling into it from a move or something. AJ just decides that it's time to sit in the chair and throw ring psychology out the window. I don't know man, almost all of AJ's matches go like that. He hits a pretty move or two, then takes a breather for a few seconds to set up the next spot, and then telegraphs the next move. It's not easy to suspend disbelief with him when he's so determined to remind everybody that this isn't real.

If you want to make believe AJ Styles is the greatest wrestler in the world and can use no improvement, that's fine. I bet AJ believes the same thing. Meanwhile, a guy like El Generico who was similarly confident, sucked it up, moved to NXT, improved on literally every level, be it promos, facial expressions, selling realistically, telling the story of a match, working the bodyparts, etc. And now Sami Zayn is on a weekly program showing the entire world he's the best wrestler in the world while AJ is doing the same ol' stuff he's always done and relying on keyboard warriors like yourself to say "he's the best wrestler because he has great matches.. and his matches are great because he's such a great wrestler!"

Last edited by NegativeFeedback : 12-16-2014 at 10:47 PM.
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  #77  
Old 12-17-2014, 01:43 AM
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So basically you're dismissing my criticisms because you think they aren't genuine. Well, there's not much I can do about you putting fingers to your ear and going Na na na. If you enjoy AJ's strengths enough to overlook his flaws, that's fair, but to say they don't exist is just idiotic.

Like with O'Reilly, there's a point where AJ takes his time going to the top rope in the middle of the match while Kyle crawls to the center of the ring. Kyle looks back to see if AJ is in position, and AJ cues Kyle to stand up, Kyle stands up and AJ then hits his crossbody. This whole moment takes like 30 seconds. So when he's lying next to Kyle, goes up, and cues him to move, this is the period of "And for my next trick" that I was talking about. There's also the front missle dropick Kyle hits to AJ on the outside of the ring. AJ flies out of the ring, and says "Welp, Kyle needs to hit me with the signature, so let me crawl and sit in this chair for no fucking reason, except to let Kyle hit his move". It's kinda bullshit how Rey Mysterio always gets his opponents into the 2nd rope for the 619, but it's fine when those guys make sure they end up their in a logical way by stumbling into it from a move or something. AJ just decides that it's time to sit in the chair and throw ring psychology out the window. I don't know man, almost all of AJ's matches go like that. He hits a pretty move or two, then takes a breather for a few seconds to set up the next spot, and then telegraphs the next move. It's not easy to suspend disbelief with him when he's so determined to remind everybody that this isn't real.

If you want to make believe AJ Styles is the greatest wrestler in the world and can use no improvement, that's fine. I bet AJ believes the same thing. Meanwhile, a guy like El Generico who was similarly confident, sucked it up, moved to NXT, improved on literally every level, be it promos, facial expressions, selling realistically, telling the story of a match, working the bodyparts, etc. And now Sami Zayn is on a weekly program showing the entire world he's the best wrestler in the world while AJ is doing the same ol' stuff he's always done and relying on keyboard warriors like yourself to say "he's the best wrestler because he has great matches.. and his matches are great because he's such a great wrestler!"
What the fuck man? I am sorry, but you're making yourself look like an idiot in this thread. You're over looking professional wrestling, you're complaining that in a 20+ minute match, one of the guys gives cues to the other and it takes a 30 second to get it going (which by the way is accepted, because the point you're making is at the 16 minutes of a match and the chair thing was just a confused wrestler, hell, he could've been standing and it would've been the same fucking thing). Also you clearly don't understand in-ring psychology outside of the WWE world - I'll give you some fresh news for you -

There's a reason for people to talk about "WWE Style" of wrestling, there's a reason why a veteran like freaking Prince Devitt needed to go to WWE's Developmental Center. It's not to learn how to wrestle, hell, he's been in my wet dreams for two years now, but to adapt to a different style.

LOOK AT THIS FREAKING THING:



You ever wondered why you've never seen something like that in a WWE ring? Those are two guys, in practice, not selling to forearms to the head at the 20 minute mark of a match. So they suck? Or are they just telling a different story in an environment where this is accepted? This is professional wrestling, a staged fight, so I am not expecting it to be like a "REAL FIGHT", I may be wrong but this is puroresu, the strong style as many like to call it and it's been made famous by the japanese community of wrestling. So, what, can't a wrestler be the best at one genre and be considered the best in the world?

Nobody here is saying that AJ Styles is perfect, specially not inside the WWE World of mainstream television and where your character means more than your talent (eg: Rusev). But in the world he's been so good that when you compare, and I watch WWE, ROH and New Japan, so I am talking as a fan, and I clearly get more entertained by what AJ Styles is bringing than what someone like Brock Lesnar is bringing or Sami Zayn for that matter (even though I also think Sami's been great and should have been nominated instead of Cesaro or Roman Reigns)...

I loved watching Lesnar break the streak, it made my jaw beat the ground, but I "wowed" a lot too whenever AJ Styles got into a ring this year, and I always thought that the guy was overrated as shit in TNA. It just happens that he's nearly perfect for the scenario he's been put into this year - he does not need to talk much and his story is told inside the ring and not on promos against Dixie Carter. That's being a great professional wrestling.

From this list, nobody even comes close. I get it why some people are voting for Lesnar and Daniel Bryan, but this should be a no contest. Both these guys had 3 or 4 PPV matches this year, and while Bryan was awesome, Lesnar was not. AJ had three times more the amount of BIG MATCHES than those two and delivered in every single on of them.

EDIT: I've found the match that NegativeFeedback is talking about on YouTube and I dare anyone to watch it and say it was mediocre. It was not, it was a good match and it was not AJ Styles best match of 2014, hell, I could go on a limp and say it wasn't even the best of that said month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-imDgphK4
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Last edited by Hard Hit Prince : 12-17-2014 at 01:47 AM.
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  #78  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:25 AM
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That above me is the written version of an RKO out of nowhere.

Good job History.

Now, back to the point of the thread. Daniel Bryan has the lead, he shouldn't, but he does. That said, at this juncture even if AJ Styles loses I feel this is still a victory, he is still neck-and-neck with Daniel Bryan and Brock Lesnar. If you're yet to vote, read through the thread before you do because if you came into this thinking you shouldn't vote AJ Styles, between myself, History and JMT I think we'll convince you otherwise.

AJ Styles is the best wrestler of 2014. Beleedat!

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  #79  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:44 AM
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AJ Styles has been real sick all year. A lot of good 4 and 5-star performances between ROH and NJPW. Sure, Lesnar ended The Streak and destroyed Cena. But that is it. Bryan had a incredible four months to sadly end his career. He is not coming back. Reigns is a joke. Cesaro is a sailboat without a sail or rudder. Orton has been just, well, there. Cena would have been booked strong if he fought Mighty Joe Young and King Kong in a handicap match. His booking has become laughable. So, AJ wins it by the process of elimination. And, the fact that he just had a great year compared to the others in this poll.
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:19 PM
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Bryan had a incredible four months to sadly end his career. He is not coming back.
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