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Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Who Wins This Match?
Undertaker 30 57.69%
Lou Thesz 22 42.31%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 04-14-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Spidey 2 Tidy View Post
Still doesn't make his era part of real wrestling.
Fans believed it was real. They believed the action was real and they believed the drama was real. Today everything is a show and we know that everything is staged.

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Swallow his pride by facing a wrestler who doesn't even use hocus pocus when he fights? Not exactly offensive stuff here, even for a purist that he seems to be.
The arguments presented in this thread were that Undertaker could summon lightning as a way to psyche Lou out. That wouldn't fly.

Quote:
What, is he so adamant about gimmicks that he would refuse to show up? If so, another point for Taker.
Now you are just making stuff up. Show me an instance where Lou Thesz refused to fight a wrestler because they had a gimmick he didn't like.

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I've already argued Biker Taker could still win, so no. Though I do believe American Badass Undertaker was not his prime, but that is entirely subjective and has no real bearing in this discussion.
Taker could win, but is he likely too? No. He has a losing record against the top stars of his era: Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Lesnar. Lou Thesz was the Hogan of his era. In this match, it's going to be his name on the marquee drawing in fans; not Taker's.

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I'd argue his prime was as the satanic Lord of Darkness when the commentary team was even going on about how Mark Calloway honestly believed he was a sorcerer.
No comment.

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But if you believe he had multiple primes, then I don't see how that is a negative for Undertaker. So...another reason to vote for him?
Lou had multiple primes too. He was a huge star in wrestling consistently for 40 years. Twice as long as Taker.

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1. You're arguing real world issues, not the kayfabe one Thesz claimed happened. My argument has been solely on what makes for Thesz's character. If you have to go dig it up online to see what happened in reality, then it's not pro wrestling anymore. It's biographical research.

2. He still forfeited in a match that is pretty much this one, but not juiced up.
So? There's no set criteria for arguments here. You could have voted for Undertaker simply because you liked him more. The reality behind his forfeit was politically based. The kayfabe outcome of the match was completely ignored anyways. I don't have proof, but the injury was likely fabricated as a way to write Thesz off to the media so that they didn't follow him to Japan.

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What's the point of carrying over damage, then? One can argue that, while not as grueling as working day in day out, Taker came from a time where busting your head open was considered the norm. When do we draw the line on how much a wrestler is hurt if they won a match here by ONE VOTE?
I never said damage wouldn't carry over. I said that Lou wouldn't be as damaged as you were trying to make him out to be. Lou was used to working a grueling schedule. I said that despite it all he was able to endure it and still win 99% of the time. There's your kayfabe argument.

7 years undefeated. 936 consecutive victories to his name.

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Is that what played out on radio/TV/at the arena? Or was it real, which again, pro wrestling isn't.
The kayfabe of him "quitting due to injury" wasn't even recognized by the NWA. He still remained champion. By that logic, Lou Thesz quits this match and gets a free bye because the NWA doesn't recognize Taker as a legitimate competitor to Thesz. This 2/3 falls match would be buried in history.
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Bernkastel you have successfully trolled me for a long time.. just wanna tell you that you are a VERY good troll. You made me wanna punch you in the face and strangle you
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  #22  
Old 04-14-2017, 08:26 PM
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This match is so close I feel I need to get my written vote in for Lou Thesz and a big reason for that is the gimmick of the match.

As is stated above Thesz is one of the best shooters in the business and while i don't want to say Undertaker was all gimmick it was something he relied heavily on. Based on actual in ring talent Thesz would take this with Speed and Agility.

For me they would split the first 2 falls with Taker winning the street fight and Thesz managing the ladder match making it all come down to the cage match. By this time Undertaker would be completely gassed and while Thesz would be winded he was used to going as long as this match would probably take. In the Cage I see Thesz using that shoot style on 'Taker's already beat up legs to keep him from being able to walk or do much of anything and he would walk out for the win.
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:53 AM
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Voted Taker. Thanks Spidey.


When Taker hits the ring, Thesz is gonna be thrown off. Having never seen anything like this before, he will keep hammering in disbelief as Taker does his deadman thing and puts Lou down for the first fall. The mental game and Taker being a force makes it a good bet.

Second round Thesz regroups and gets a better plan going. The advantage here is going to be Lou having more speed/stamina while Taker starts to lose gas. Taker sits up just as Lou gets to the top of the ladder, but it is too late.

Third fall is where Thesz finds out who Taker really is. The guy has a mystique of indestructible resilience that is legendary. Comes back from the dead, buried alive, etc. Besides the paranormal kayfabe stuff, how many times has the guy been beaten dead to rights, yet he still won? Thesz would have the same struggle. After a huge old west gunfight of a match, Taker drops him with the second Tombstone in a row & its over.
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  #24  
Old 04-15-2017, 09:28 AM
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I think Lou Thesz has both the mental toughness and the stamina to win this match. Tough enough to hang in early doors, Undertaker has shown his vulnerability in a ladder match when Jeff Hardy, who was losing handicap matches at that point, almost beat him for the World Heavyweight Championship in one, and he lost to Edge in one, despite beating him in just about every other scenario.

Thesz would win the Ladder match. By the time we get to the cage, they will have been wrestling for a lot longer, and Thesz would be able to have the survivor and the staying power to beat Undertaker. Taker has shown with Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley and Shane McMahon that despite being able to dominate opponents for a long time, it takes a long time for him to put them away. If he doesn't put Thesz away quickly, and the evidence is that he wouldn't, then it becomes more likely that Thesz will win. For me, Thesz wins this.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:41 AM
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If you want to look for modern in ring comparables to Thesz, look to Angle or Lesnar. if Lou Thesz wrestled in modern times, that's a cross of who he'd be in the ring.

Angle had Undertaker's number in big matches. Lesnar ended the streak.

If you want to compare what each meant to their respective era's? Both were probably the most respected of their times. Undertaker was always ONE OF the top wrestlers of his era.

Thesz was THE top wrestler of his era. And the era right after his era too!

Thesz always has trouble going as far as he should in this tournament because too many people have a hard time looking past the black and white photography and overcoming recency bias. The truth is, when you are talking about Lou Thesz, you are talking about one of the most important figures in wrestling history. You absolutely cannot name another name that isn't as important as Thesz, and if he'd never gone into wrestling... the sport that you all watch today would be VERY different.

Lou Thesz was a bigger deal than the Undertaker... and that is NOT a knock on the Undertaker.

Thesz should win.
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