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  #11  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JGlass View Post
I should have known better than to debate quality with a diehard TNA fan .

I suppose you're right. There will always be people who will laugh at something completely tasteless, and Bill Maher's joke in this case was just that: tasteless. It's not funny for a white guy to joke about being a slave. It would be like Queen Elizabeth making a joke about living in destitute poverty, or Louis CK knowing what it's like to be a black person in South Africa under Apartheid. There's just certain things you shouldn't joke about because it's completely classless, and this was one of them.
So humor is relegated to class, now? One must have to meet certain cultural requirements to be allowed to joke about topics? I suppose I need to have actually been a woman to joke about how much they like to shop? Better tell Dave Chapelle to apologize for all those bits impersonating and poking fun at white people. He's never been a white man before.

See my first post again. The proper, reasonable response to hearing something you don't like is not to listen to it.

What you call classless I call hilarious. You know who was the fucking King of this? Richard Pryor. And George Carlin.

Also, shouldn't you have been a die hard TNA fan to make fun of one? Stop appropriating my company!
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2017, 10:38 PM
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This is a lot to try and argue against. So I'm just going to summarize a response rather than make an out and out argument, and I ask your forgiveness ahead of time. But I think it's fair to point out that you didn't like Bill Maher to begin with. Maher's audience doesn't want him gone. There are a few mind you. But plenty of black people are giving him a pass and I doubt his ratings are going to take any kind of hit. Most of the people calling for him to be canceled already hate him. He has lost a guest and a small portion of his audience are probably flying the coop or they're just mad. Not everyone's cool with it, and I'm not in any real position to speak for the black community. But if you're already a Bill Maher fan, chances are you're used to him trying to be outrageous. Unllike Kathy, this was a joke that left his mouth unplanned. He wasn't trying to push an envelope. He was saying something he actually thought was funny. I did too. A lot of people laughed after they got over the shock of a white dude saying it. Bill waved off his fans because every week for the last 2 years he gets that reaction to any perceived offensive joke. Even jokes that are supporting a cause or making fun of someone who did something awful and are relatively tame with context. I honestly think Maher would have gotten away with this had he said it 4 years ago.
Fair enough, pardon me while I do the same thing.

Keep in mind that I'm not trying to speak on behalf of Black people, if every Black person gave Bill a pass for what he said then that really wouldn't matter to me. I condemn the use of that word on my own terms for my own reasons. To me; Bill has always been an arrogant dipshit and it's through that arrogance that he presents racism as poignant comedy, and anyone who would reward what he said with laughter has a really fucked up sense of humor.

I don't think that what he did was at all different from what Kathy did in terms of what the intention was. It doesn't matter what color you are, people of every creed like to occasionally express themselves in ways that test their social credibility. Kathy Griffin took a chance on becoming a hero unto people who hate the President, and Bill Maher took a chance on turning an innocent statement by Sen. Ben Sasse into a slavery reference that included the n-word. They're both fuckups, and they both apologized in their own ass ways for being fuckups. If you still like him for what he said, then he apologized on your behalf as well.

I'm pretty sure that Bill waved off crowd members who reacted with disgust because he thought he was cool enough to be able to do so. Egomaniacs will be egomaniacs. And no; Bill would not have gotten away with this four years ago, while the nation was still reeling from Trayvon Martin's death.

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Whether it's right or wrong isn't my place to say.
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But the reaction of black community is mixed and occasionally a bit hypocritical. My favorite tweet was a black guy saying that he always knew Maher was just a shifty Jew.
...............................................yea h, I'll be sure to come find you when I want to know how the Black community is doing.

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I don't know what your problem is with Religious. Back when it was made it was an eye opener for a lot of people. Especially living in the South where there is literally a church every few blocks. Pretty much everyone in the film deserved the shame they got.
You know what buddy? You're smart, most people on this forum are smart, that's why I come here. Unlike Bill Maher, I like to test my ideas with smart people and thereby not have to sift through so much bullshit in my attempt to better myself. Bill likes to take a page out of Dr. Phil's playbook and ridicule people who are obviously without shame in regard to their hypocrisy, which can be entertaining but does nothing to promote a positive change toward the oppression of others based on religious principles.

On top of chastising people who don't deserve anyone's consideration, Bill pushed the idea that Jesus and Horus had identical histories. That's complete bullshit, and any idiot can confirm that. I'm getting way off track here, but I've never seen anything good come from Bill Maher's influence.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by It's Damn Real! View Post
So humor is relegated to class, now? One must have to meet certain cultural requirements to be allowed to joke about topics? I suppose I need to have actually been a woman to joke about how much they like to shop? Better tell Dave Chapelle to apologize for all those bits impersonating and poking fun at white people. He's never been a white man before.
I don't know if you're being intentionally obtuse or just missing the point.

Comparing jokes about women loving shopping or white people being cavalier when being pulled over by police to people being held in slavery, tortured and murdered for fun is like comparing apples to getting kicked in the balls by an apple picker.

Joking about things that are painful for a large segment of the population when you are not part of that group is in bad taste. Even if you are in that group, it can be in bad taste, which is why you don't see many Jewish comics (and let's face it, there's like a billion of them) joking about the holocaust, and you really don't see too many black comedians joking about slavery either. So when Bill Maher makes a joke about being a slave, it's just in bad taste, not to mention complete nonsense.

Quote:
See my first post again. The proper, reasonable response to hearing something you don't like is not to listen to it.
You and I are on the same page here. I don't watch Bill Maher because, as I think Jack-Hammer pointed out, I find him to be unbearably arrogant, but I won't begrudge anyone deciding to return to watching the program or not based on this questionable joke and subsequent apology.

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What you call classless I call hilarious. You know who was the fucking King of this? Richard Pryor. And George Carlin.
Like I said, you'll always find someone who will laugh at something completely classless. It's why World Star Hip Hop is such a cultural phenomenon.

And you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Carlin fan than me. Well, that's probably not true, but he is my favorite standup of all time, but I can't think of a single joke of his that was as classless as Bill Maher calling himself a, "House nigger."

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Also, shouldn't you have been a die hard TNA fan to make fun of one? Stop appropriating my company!
Nah, it's okay to make fun of TNA fans because you made the choice to support that stuff. Laughing at the poor life decisions of others might not be the most classy thing to do, but it's more socially acceptable than a white man likening himself to a house slave because he doesn't like to do manual labor.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2017, 05:49 PM
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I don't know if you're being intentionally obtuse or just missing the point.

Comparing jokes about women loving shopping or white people being cavalier when being pulled over by police to people being held in slavery, tortured and murdered for fun is like comparing apples to getting kicked in the balls by an apple picker.

Joking about things that are painful for a large segment of the population when you are not part of that group is in bad taste. Even if you are in that group, it can be in bad taste, which is why you don't see many Jewish comics (and let's face it, there's like a billion of them) joking about the holocaust, and you really don't see too many black comedians joking about slavery either. So when Bill Maher makes a joke about being a slave, it's just in bad taste, not to mention complete nonsense.
Mike Epps, Leslie Jones, Byron Bowers, and others have all used slavery as the subject matter of their jokes. Chapelle had numerous skits on his Comedy Central show using it as comedic prose. I’m not going to sit here and link them all to prove a point. You can do your own leg work there.

The line between hilarity and offense is entirely subjective, because it’s different for everybody. I am close friends with numerous stand up comedians, one of which is black and is actually finding some success. If I asked them all where their lines are, I guarantee you none would agree. But they’d all agree that intent matters, and if the joke is funny, that’s all that matters.

This is why comics went to bat for Daniel Tosh over his rape joke in response to a heckler, for example, or why Louis CK, who is revered in the industry, is routinely defended by his peers when he, too, “crosses the line”.

Quote:
And you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Carlin fan than me. Well, that's probably not true, but he is my favorite standup of all time, but I can't think of a single joke of his that was as classless as Bill Maher calling himself a, "House nigger."
You missed the point of the joke if you think he was actually calling himself a house nigger. It was a retort to the invitation from Sasse to "work his fields".

As to Carlin, he's done jokes on mass murder/death (post-9/11), rape, and a slew of other "offensive" categories. As a self-described fan, you know this. I don't need to explain to you how he made his name household. But as a self-described "big" fan, I'd hope you'd realize that pushing and routinely crossing "the line" was his calling card.

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Nah, it's okay to make fun of TNA fans because you made the choice to support that stuff. Laughing at the poor life decisions of others might not be the most classy thing to do, but it's more socially acceptable than a white man likening himself to a house slave because he doesn't like to do manual labor.
Well played. I enjoyed this joke, even though it's offensive to me.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2017, 05:51 PM
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Meh, its live television, people fuck up. He acknowledged that it was wrong, and intends not to make that mistake again.

If playing fast and loose with the word becomes a habit, then HBO should move on. Not for one ad-libbed joke made in poor taste.
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:38 PM
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I saw a news story today that Caitlyn Jenner got a puppy. JGlass - I am not a transexual or a canine. I own a dog, watched the Price is Right, and had a vasectomy. Should I spend some time thinking up a joke about this news story or would that be crossing a line?
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:14 PM
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For me personally, it wasn't offensive and I wouldn't give it a second thought. I'm just realistic about the fact that the word in and of itself, when said by a white person, is always gonna piss off a whole lotta black folks and make a whole lotta white folks overreact with their own outrage or they'll be called racists. I'm also realistic about the fact that there's probably always, or at the very least during our lifetimes, gonna be a double standard when it comes to using race as part of a joke; it seems perfectly okay whenever someone of color uses a racial component in a joke, especially if it's to do with white people, but you'd think the sky was falling if a white man does it. Dave Chappelle dressing up as and putting make up on his face to make himself look like a white news anchor? He's a genius in the eyes of the black community. If Daniel Tosh dressed like and had his face made up to look like a Crip? The black community would want him crucified with Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson providing the hammer and nails. It sucks and is something that's a personal pet peeve of mine, but I also know that there's nothing that can be done about it.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:49 PM
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George Carlin had a joke where he literally called Richard Pryor a nigger. In context it isn't nearly as bad as it sounds but it appears that we're totally ignoring context here anyway so let's go dig him up and tar and feather his skeleton.

Classless and tasteless are words that mean absolutely nothing to me. Funny is funny. Hack is hack. These days Maher falls somewhere in the middle.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:47 PM
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Bill Maher and controversy go hand in hand and always will. I remember back when he made some outrageous statements after 9/11 about American soldiers being cowards, simply because they bombed their targets while sitting in planes. Statements like that and other's got his show cancelled on the Comedy Network and he soon resurfaced on HBO.

Then came the tirade's about Islam and the incest jokes about Ivanka and Donald Trump. Is anyone surprised to hear he is in the news again using a racial slur. I'm stunned that it hasn't happened sooner. Although didn't he once call Muslims "raghead's'. Yea Bill Maher always walks the line and occasionally falls off. He's a straight shooter who obviously doesn't give a rats ass who cares, he has a soapbox and he uses it.

Was he right, no, but again nothing will come of this, and next year we with have another thread with another Bill Maher controversy.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:32 PM
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Bill Maher and controversy go hand in hand and always will. I remember back when he made some outrageous statements after 9/11 about American soldiers being cowards, simply because they bombed their targets while sitting in planes. Statements like that and other's got his show cancelled on the Comedy Network and he soon resurfaced on HBO.
You've got this a little fuzzy. He said that the 9/11 hijackers were not cowards because they killed themselves to achieve their goal, and that the U.S. were, because they fire cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. He was also cancelled by ABC, not, what I presume you are confusing with Comedy Central.

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Then came the tirade's about Islam and the incest jokes about Ivanka and Donald Trump. Is anyone surprised to hear he is in the news again using a racial slur. I'm stunned that it hasn't happened sooner. Although didn't he once call Muslims "raghead's'. Yea Bill Maher always walks the line and occasionally falls off. He's a straight shooter who obviously doesn't give a rats ass who cares, he has a soapbox and he uses it.
No, I'm not surprised to hear that he's in the news, nor am I surprised that there's an audience outraged by what he has to say. This is what much of U.S. politics are these days outrage culture. We live to be offended, as if being offended is in and of itself an argument. It isn't. It's a guttural reaction that too many think is deserving of respect.

Maher is a political comedian and television host. It's his job to walk that tightrope. If he didn't, he'd be cancelled for banality, like Piers Morgan was (among other reasons).

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Was he right, no, but again nothing will come of this, and next year we with have another thread with another Bill Maher controversy.
And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I believe that his show helps to thrust conversations we need to be having into the public forum because he's one of a small group of media voices who are brave enough to broach them in the first place. I applaud him, for example, for his willingness to harshly criticize Islam. Though he was mostly a passenger during it, the confrontation between Sam Harris and Ben Affleck on his program a few years ago really helped to shine a light on how dishonestly the Left, largely, react to criticisms of the religion and the culture it prescribes. The string of Left-leaning articles that followed it calling Harris and Maher racists, bigots, and Islamaphobes actually stirred enough of a backlash from intellectuals who care about intellectual honesty that it spread enough runway for Dave Rubin, another comic turned host, to launch his now very popular "Rubin Report" YouTube series. Even though that was clearly not their intention.

Maher may be smarmy and a bit of a cunt, but neither are qualities worth dismissing the value of his program IMO. Even if they make it a bit difficult to sit through some nights.
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