How Far Could Art Barr Have Gone?

[The Brain]

Sorry guys, this isn’t going to be like my usual threads. You know the kind. I give you the enthralling history lesson, followed by my insightful opinions, and argue with those that disagree with me. Not this time. I know very little about the subject at hand so I created this thread to see if anyone else has some insight. I’ll tell you what little I do know and maybe someone can fill us in on some more.

In the mid 90s Art Barr was making a name for himself wrestling in Mexico as the American Love Machine. He was a hated villain and eventually formed a team with Eddie Guerrero. They won the AAA tag team titles. The two earned a lot of attention with their tag match against El Hijo del Santo and Octagon at the When Worlds Collide pay per view in 1994. Around this time WWF, WCW, ECW, and New Japan were all expressing interest in the team. Sadly only two weeks after the pay per view Art Barr passed away just as his career appeared to be on the verge of a major breakthrough.

Again, I know very little about Art Barr. I’d like to give you all my opinions and tell you he would have been a huge star if not for his untimely death. I just don’t have enough information to back that up. Given his partnership with Guerrero (by the way, Guerrero adopted the frog splash as a tribute to Barr) I can picture Barr taking a similar path as Eddie, Benoit, and Jericho. Barr seemed like the type that would go to Japan for a while before establishing himself in the states in ECW before getting the big break with either WCW or WWF. Who knows, maybe Art Barr could have been involved in some kind of feel good title win at WrestleMania XX. If there is anyone out there who can tell me a little more about Art Barr and what kind of success you think he could have had I’d love to read it.

[Vintage]

Wasn't Art Barr the Juicer from WCW? If so, I remember he had a cool cruiser weight style that might have been slightly ahead of its time. He didn't many appearances but he stood out to me as a kid.

[SinCityBlitz]

As much as I would want to say that there is no way he would main event I look at Guerrero and Benoit and realize he just might have. He was just as talented as they were.

The guy had a charisma that could make you hate him VERY much. Very, very underrated. But his drug use was a major problem and ultimately cost him his life.

Plus he was a rapist. He admitted that a girl he had sex with did not consent and plea-bargained down to first degree sexual assault. That right there made it very hard for me to like him. Be a man and take responsibility for the shit that you do.

Overall a very underrated talent who did some major screwed up things. So while it wasn't easy for him to get a legit shot in the WWF or WCW(Juicer is not a legit shot and the name was a lot closer to what he was doing)he didn't do himself any favors with drugs and the rape charge. Of course others have been major druggies and made it so eventually I think he might have been a big player. I think his best shot would have been in ECW and WCW when Bischoff first took over.

[THTRobtaylor]

His team with Eddie G. was perhaps his best shot of mainstream success - had Los Gringos Locos headed to either WWF or WCW then they could have had some element of success. We're not talking titles here, but as a Rockers/Freebirds style team that became part of the furniture, then have the singles feud etc. WCW would have been the better fit, as the WWF would have made them stereotypical ala the Rougeaus/Bushwhackers/Headshrinkers and they might have lost their edge. Also if the bigger teams like LOD didn't want to work the Rockers, Barr and Eddie had no shot.

As many have alluded to Barr was basically a very damaged guy from an early point in his career - while I didn't expressly know of the rape charge, I can imagine that kind of thing putting the mockers on a WWF run during their "PG" era as they had enough scandal of their own to hold down.

I think the best source I have read on it was in Jericho's book, where they became friends but he acknowledged he was "unique" and they didn't even get on to begin with. Wrestlers all say the man had talent, perhaps enough to have been someone but the cliche of "great talent/power comes responsibility" comes into play.

Potential is just that unless you know you have it and harness it. It's how guys like Eddie, Benoit, Jericho and their like rose steadily, even if they made mistakes cos they saw the bigger picture, the next step, "this hit could be bad for my career so I won't do it".

Barr clearly lived for the moment and didn't know he had what his peers believed he did, had he done so then he might have protected it better. But even then, guys like Gino Hernandez proved you can know you're good and still get in fatal trouble.

It's also easy for wrestlers and by extension fans to canonise someone who dies young so there may be an element of over-ratedness, after all no wrestler wants people to say they were crap in the ring and the shits as a man when they die, and very few ever do even if it was true.

For me, Barr goes into the same category as Louie Spicolli and Rick McGraw - guys who had potential but couldn't see past the indulgence so they were nowhere near the loss to the business that a David Von Erich or Gino Hernandez were.

[Caitiff]

Art Barr plead guilty to sexual assault in the late 80s. I don't think that he would have gone any higher than the low-mid card, because that's publicity that nobody wants.

Seriously, would you really want headlines reading "Rapist wins WWE Championship?" I certainly wouldn't.

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't think Barr would have gone very far in the grand scheme of things, certainly not to the man event.

As has already been mentioned, Barr plead guilty to first-degree sexual abuse. In the summer of 1989, charges were filed by a 19 year old woman in Oregon saying that he'd raped her. About a year into the investigation, Barr took a lie detector test and he admitted, during the test, that the girl had not consented to sex with him. He was sentenced to a $1,000 fine, I think about 200 hours of community service, probation for a couple of years and no jail time. Barr would maintain that he thought he could have beaten the case if it went to trial, but he took a plea because his attorney informed him that there'd be no jail time. This was in the late 1980s where rape just wasn't taken nearly as serious as it is today and should have been in those days. He got off pretty light. Eventually, Barr's license to wrestle in Oregon wasn't renewed because it was discovered that he'd been convicted on charges of possession of Cocaine and didn't disclose that information.

I remember reading that Barr was signed to WCW in 1990 but nothing came of it. I the woman Barr admitted to sexually assaulting began a campaign via fax machines and he quickly lost support in WCW and was released not too long after that.

For all intents & purposes, Barr was a rapist who had a life long problems with the law and drugs. If Barr had been born 20 years earlier, he may have become a pretty big star in the territory days.

[klunderbunker]

Barr was quite good but I'm not sure how far he could have gone. He was from a wrestling family (his dad was a promoter in the northwest and his brother was better known as Jimmy Jack Funk in late 80s WWF) and had decent skills, but as was argued by WCW back in the day, he was a small guy in a big man's wrestling world. That's why being in Mexico was probably the best thing for him as size was nowhere near as much of a factor there as it was in America.

He did indeed have a lot of potential, but the problem is almost no one knows anything of him other than one major match. Speaking of which, here's the (LONG) review of said match:

Click for Spoiler:

Los Gringos Locos vs. Octagon/El Hijo Del Santo

Oh here it is. THIS is the reason this show is famous and it's one of the best matches of the 90s according to almost every reviewer. There is all kinds of backstory here. First of all: Los Gringos Locos are Eddie Guerrero and Love Machine Art Barr (just called Love Machine) and they are HATED. Barr makes swimming motions at the crowd as they come in, which is about as racist as you can get.

Both of them (plus their lackey Louis Spicolli) are in clothes so American flagged themed that Jack Swagger and Kurt Angle and the Patriot would tell them to tone it down. There are others in the stable with them including non-Americans like Konnan but you get the idea. The story here is that Eddie was in a team with El Hijo Del Santo but turned on him. This was due to their fathers being a big team (Gory Guerrero and El Santo, El Santo being the undisputed biggest name ever in Mexican wrestling) and Gory being overshaddowed. The idea was Eddie wouldn't let it happen so he beat up El Hijo to take fame for himself.

On top of that, Los Gringos beat Octagon/El Hijo Del Santo for the AAA tag titles in Chicago a few months before this with the help of a fast count from a paid off referee. This is a mask vs. hair match though, which is the mother of all gimmick matches in Mexico and it's also 2/3 falls. However since this is Mexico, for a fall to count, both members of a team have to be defeated. I'll try to keep track of that as we go.

Got all that? Good.

Eddie vs. Santo (his name is El Hijo Del Santo and Santo is a different wrestler, but for the sake of not having to type that every time I'll be calling him Santo. I'm aware of the difference) starts us off and the fans couldn't be more behind the masked team. There's only one referee in here and if you go to the floor it doesn't mean the other guy can come in so it's a more traditional tag match.

Off to Barr and Octagon but Eddie cheats like only he can. They set for a Doomsday Rana but Eddie botches slightly, basically dropping Santo on his head. Since he's practically dead, that's good for the first pin. Remember that doesn't count as a fall though, but rather just half a fall. A superplex by Eddie and a frog splash by Barr (he invented it, Eddie copied it) ends Octagon so we're at 1-0 Gringos very early.

Barr does the swimming thing again during the break between falls. Eddie starts with Santo again and Santo is in trouble. Off to Octagon and he's an idiot apparently as Eddie begs off and Octagon lets him have a break. Off to Barr who likes to do jumping jacks. Eddie comes back in via a slingshot hilo and Santo is like screw this and pounds on Eddie a bit. Barr takes a senton backsplash and everything breaks down.

Out to the floor and the Mexicans dive onto Los Gringos in a huge crash. Back to Eddie vs. Santo in the ring which is what the original match was going to be. Eddie snaps off a rana off the top and gets a quick pin on Santo but we're not done yet. Santo can't interfere here either. The Gringos double team Octagon but he escapes, hooking a rana on Eddie for a quick pin and then a freaky looking neck lock on Barr for the tap and a POP.

Now we get down to the real stuff as those first ten minutes were just a warmup. Back to Eddie vs. Santo to get us started as Barr chants for Proposition 187, which would be a very tough anti-immigration law up for a vote in California. See why he's so hated? Santo hooks a camel clutch but Barr superkicks him in the head to take over. Octagon comes in to break up a submission hold but stops to kick Barr a little while he's in there.

Octagon kicks away even more but Eddie saves and tries the Gory Stretch. Eddie goes up but gets caught in an electric chair drop for two. Now Los Gringos try the double suicide dives but Eddie's foot gets caught on the middle rope so he lands on his head. They head back to the ring where Eddie gets powerbombed to the floor. Barr tombstones Octagon (HUGE thing as that move paralyzed a guy shortly before this) and gets the pin to put them a fall away from winning. The crowd is reaching ONS 06 levels of hate now.

Eddie grabs a German on Santo for two and there's the PowerPlex again but it only gets two here, drawing an ERUPTION from the crowd. Octagon is being stretchered out and it's heel miscommunication time. Santo dives onto Eddie and Blue Panther (Santo/Octagon's second) piledrives Barr to make it 1-1. So in essence it's Guerrero vs. Santo now and Eddie hits a Batista Bomb for two. A belly to belly superplex gets two for Eddie as does a rana off the top. Dragon suplex gets two as Barr is waking up again. Santo grabs a rollup out of nowhere and keeps the masks as he gets the pin.

Rating: A-. I don't know if it's the lack of context but I didn't see this as being the perfect match that it's built up as. Then again I almost always rate tag matches lower than most people do so that probably has something to do with it. That being said though the crowd was electric for this and the whole thing worked very well. Great match and worth seeing for history if nothing else.

Octagon is taken into an ambulance. Barr cuts Eddie's hair and cries over having to do it. Barr gets his cut now and looks like he's about to cry.

Barr would be dead in 17 days. He had a ton of potential too.

As you can see if you read that, he was definitely good and amazing at drawing heat from a crowd, but the problem was the kind of head he was doing wasn't going to work for another few years in mainstream wrestling. Barr did have potential, but he probably wasn't going to be a huge star in America because of all the problems he had working against him, in addition to all of his personal problems. He did have a wicked Frog Splash though which looked more like a high powered Low Down.

[vampxx24]

Originally Posted by klunderbunker

Barr was quite good but I'm not sure how far he could have gone. He was from a wrestling family (his dad was a promoter in the northwest and his brother was better known as Jimmy Jack Funk in late 80s WWF) and had decent skills, but as was argued by WCW back in the day, he was a small guy in a big man's wrestling world. That's why being in Mexico was probably the best thing for him as size was nowhere near as much of a factor there as it was in America.

He did indeed have a lot of potential, but the problem is almost no one knows anything of him other than one major match. Speaking of which, here's the (LONG) review of said match:

Click for Spoiler:

Los Gringos Locos vs. Octagon/El Hijo Del Santo

Oh here it is. THIS is the reason this show is famous and it's one of the best matches of the 90s according to almost every reviewer. There is all kinds of backstory here. First of all: Los Gringos Locos are Eddie Guerrero and Love Machine Art Barr (just called Love Machine) and they are HATED. Barr makes swimming motions at the crowd as they come in, which is about as racist as you can get.

Both of them (plus their lackey Louis Spicolli) are in clothes so American flagged themed that Jack Swagger and Kurt Angle and the Patriot would tell them to tone it down. There are others in the stable with them including non-Americans like Konnan but you get the idea. The story here is that Eddie was in a team with El Hijo Del Santo but turned on him. This was due to their fathers being a big team (Gory Guerrero and El Santo, El Santo being the undisputed biggest name ever in Mexican wrestling) and Gory being overshaddowed. The idea was Eddie wouldn't let it happen so he beat up El Hijo to take fame for himself.

On top of that, Los Gringos beat Octagon/El Hijo Del Santo for the AAA tag titles in Chicago a few months before this with the help of a fast count from a paid off referee. This is a mask vs. hair match though, which is the mother of all gimmick matches in Mexico and it's also 2/3 falls. However since this is Mexico, for a fall to count, both members of a team have to be defeated. I'll try to keep track of that as we go.

Got all that? Good.

Eddie vs. Santo (his name is El Hijo Del Santo and Santo is a different wrestler, but for the sake of not having to type that every time I'll be calling him Santo. I'm aware of the difference) starts us off and the fans couldn't be more behind the masked team. There's only one referee in here and if you go to the floor it doesn't mean the other guy can come in so it's a more traditional tag match.

Off to Barr and Octagon but Eddie cheats like only he can. They set for a Doomsday Rana but Eddie botches slightly, basically dropping Santo on his head. Since he's practically dead, that's good for the first pin. Remember that doesn't count as a fall though, but rather just half a fall. A superplex by Eddie and a frog splash by Barr (he invented it, Eddie copied it) ends Octagon so we're at 1-0 Gringos very early.

Barr does the swimming thing again during the break between falls. Eddie starts with Santo again and Santo is in trouble. Off to Octagon and he's an idiot apparently as Eddie begs off and Octagon lets him have a break. Off to Barr who likes to do jumping jacks. Eddie comes back in via a slingshot hilo and Santo is like screw this and pounds on Eddie a bit. Barr takes a senton backsplash and everything breaks down.

Out to the floor and the Mexicans dive onto Los Gringos in a huge crash. Back to Eddie vs. Santo in the ring which is what the original match was going to be. Eddie snaps off a rana off the top and gets a quick pin on Santo but we're not done yet. Santo can't interfere here either. The Gringos double team Octagon but he escapes, hooking a rana on Eddie for a quick pin and then a freaky looking neck lock on Barr for the tap and a POP.

Now we get down to the real stuff as those first ten minutes were just a warmup. Back to Eddie vs. Santo to get us started as Barr chants for Proposition 187, which would be a very tough anti-immigration law up for a vote in California. See why he's so hated? Santo hooks a camel clutch but Barr superkicks him in the head to take over. Octagon comes in to break up a submission hold but stops to kick Barr a little while he's in there.

Octagon kicks away even more but Eddie saves and tries the Gory Stretch. Eddie goes up but gets caught in an electric chair drop for two. Now Los Gringos try the double suicide dives but Eddie's foot gets caught on the middle rope so he lands on his head. They head back to the ring where Eddie gets powerbombed to the floor. Barr tombstones Octagon (HUGE thing as that move paralyzed a guy shortly before this) and gets the pin to put them a fall away from winning. The crowd is reaching ONS 06 levels of hate now.

Eddie grabs a German on Santo for two and there's the PowerPlex again but it only gets two here, drawing an ERUPTION from the crowd. Octagon is being stretchered out and it's heel miscommunication time. Santo dives onto Eddie and Blue Panther (Santo/Octagon's second) piledrives Barr to make it 1-1. So in essence it's Guerrero vs. Santo now and Eddie hits a Batista Bomb for two. A belly to belly superplex gets two for Eddie as does a rana off the top. Dragon suplex gets two as Barr is waking up again. Santo grabs a rollup out of nowhere and keeps the masks as he gets the pin.

Rating: A-. I don't know if it's the lack of context but I didn't see this as being the perfect match that it's built up as. Then again I almost always rate tag matches lower than most people do so that probably has something to do with it. That being said though the crowd was electric for this and the whole thing worked very well. Great match and worth seeing for history if nothing else.

Octagon is taken into an ambulance. Barr cuts Eddie's hair and cries over having to do it. Barr gets his cut now and looks like he's about to cry.

Barr would be dead in 17 days. He had a ton of potential too.

As you can see if you read that, he was definitely good and amazing at drawing heat from a crowd, but the problem was the kind of head he was doing wasn't going to work for another few years in mainstream wrestling. Barr did have potential, but he probably wasn't going to be a huge star in America because of all the problems he had working against him, in addition to all of his personal problems. He did have a wicked Frog Splash though which looked more like a high powered Low Down.

i actually ordered and taped this ppv, it was AAA vs ?iwa? being produced by wcw...this was the ppv that pretty much got eddie,art, konnan, benoit(he was prev in as david benoit), rey into wcw. to simply put the eddie/art vs santo and octogon match is still as of today one of my favorite tag matchs of all time...

its really hard to say what would of happened... because you also have to think about the fact it very much would of impacted eddies career path as well..... they could of prob went down as one of the greatest teams ever, but as you see that wouldnt of lasted in todays world, and again would def effect eddies career and doubtful any of his wwe would of happend the way it did.

[MrMojoRisin]

I think you just have to look at the career of Eddie Guerrero to get an idea of how far Art Barr would have gone. Eddie learned so much from Art, and used what he learned to become what he eventually did.

The guy was an absolute phenomenon. He could work. He could draw heat. You would pay money just to see him get his ass kicked. He'd been blocked from working in the States because Ole Anderson didn't care to give him a chance, and the rape charge had been following him around... but that wasn't going to last forever. He wouldn't have been held down forever, and when he got his chance, he would have been huge.

I don't know that he even would have gone the WCW route though. Heyman had contacted both Barr and Guerrero about joining ECW starting in 1995. The one thing about ECW, like it or hate it, was that they were a promotion that would give guys a chance where no one else would. I see Los Gringos Locos going to ECW and having the best matches on the show. Guerrero eventually goes to WCW like he did, and Barr decides to take the opportunity to transform into a major singles star by staying in ECW. He would have been absolutely huge there too. By the time his run with ECW was done, he would have been big enough that any previous issues holding him back wouldn't have mattered anymore.

It's a shame. We all lost out when he died, and most people don't even realize it.