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  #11  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:05 AM
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The main thing was that by that time Russo wasn't booking the show anymore which made a huge difference in the product. When you look at the year 2000 for WCW you had a couple of era's aas far as booking was concern. You had the kevin sullivan era which lasted until a think end of march first week of april, Then Russo and bischoff up until bash at the beach, which is we're Bischoff quit after the whole russo double crossing Hogan thing, then for a few months after that Russo was in charge by himself, i think he left or quit around october and then you had whoever was in charge after Russo which right now i could tell you who it was. That's kinda that period we're it felt like they finally had a long term plan for creative and we're able execute it better without russo trying to do his bullshit crash tv stuff every week.

The problem was that by that time, WCW future was already determine because the executive at turner never saw the company as something valuable for them and only saw them as a tv show so they wanted to cancel WCW and close it down. So everything they we'Re doing lead to nothing because of it.

We can blame who we want for WCW demise but in the end, we all know that the turner executive are the real reason WCW died and even if they would have had the greatest product on TV back in 2000 and into 2001, They would still have close it down because they didn't need it anymore.
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
The problem was that by that time, WCW future was already determine because the executive at turner never saw the company as something valuable for them and only saw them as a tv show so they wanted to cancel WCW and close it down. So everything they we'Re doing lead to nothing because of it.

We can blame who we want for WCW demise but in the end, we all know that the turner executive are the real reason WCW died and even if they would have had the greatest product on TV back in 2000 and into 2001, They would still have close it down because they didn't need it anymore.
Oh yes, this had nothing to do at all with the company losing millions and millions of dollars (including $60 million or so in ONE YEAR). With the company being in a sustained downward spiral. With the company unable to pull in max ad revenue. Take off the blinders, WCW deserved to die. No company is supposed to operate while losing that much money.

By the way, it still sucked at the end of 2000 and into 01. Try watching the build for Starrcade. It is awful.
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by therockiswwf View Post
Oh yes, this had nothing to do at all with the company losing millions and millions of dollars (including $60 million or so in ONE YEAR). With the company being in a sustained downward spiral. With the company unable to pull in max ad revenue. Take off the blinders, WCW deserved to die. No company is supposed to operate while losing that much money.

By the way, it still sucked at the end of 2000 and into 01. Try watching the build for Starrcade. It is awful.
If you listen to Eric bischoff's podcast, he went in great detail as to why they lost $60 millions in one year. It had nothing to do with the product. WCW was categorize as other within the Turner broadcasting listing and for the last few year of the company, they would put some of the deficit from other company on the other budget which lead directly into WCW budget which meant that most of that deficit wasn't from WCW itself but from other company and was past on as WCW deficit.

Turner broadcasting never saw WCW as a wrestling company, for them it was just another tv show they use to try and get ratings for they're network. When they started to see that they didn't want to keep the company and That's was around 1998 if I'm not mistaken, they did everything in they're power to killed it.

And on a side note, everything that was reported about WCW by Meltzer, Alvarez or any other dirt sheet writers was proven to be false and their wasn't a shred of truth in anything that was reported by them.
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
If you listen to Eric bischoff's podcast, he went in great detail as to why they lost $60 millions in one year.
While your point about being very cautious about what any dirt sheet writers say about the demise of WCW is well taken, the same level of caution should be exhibited about anything said by Bischoff (or Russo, for that matter) on the topic.
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2018, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
If you listen to Eric bischoff's podcast, he went in great detail as to why they lost $60 millions in one year. It had nothing to do with the product. WCW was categorize as other within the Turner broadcasting listing and for the last few year of the company, they would put some of the deficit from other company on the other budget which lead directly into WCW budget which meant that most of that deficit wasn't from WCW itself but from other company and was past on as WCW deficit.

Turner broadcasting never saw WCW as a wrestling company, for them it was just another tv show they use to try and get ratings for they're network. When they started to see that they didn't want to keep the company and That's was around 1998 if I'm not mistaken, they did everything in they're power to killed it.

And on a side note, everything that was reported about WCW by Meltzer, Alvarez or any other dirt sheet writers was proven to be false and their wasn't a shred of truth in anything that was reported by them.
I'm pretty sure Bischoff said it was like that the entire time. So that means if that is true, they never actually made or lost the amount of money reported. But you can look at it this way:
When they were popular, the reported profit was high.
When they weren't, the reported profit went down.

Let's look at WCW figures to see if the company was in a downward spiral:

Total PPV Buys:
1998 (12) - 4,290,000
2000-2001 (15) - 1,145,000
WWE - Last time they had under 2 million PPV buys was in 97 (site may not have counted IYH, so it may have been even further back).

TV Ratings:
1998 - 4.37
2000-2001 - 2.63
This happened to WWE too. Except instead of it occurring in two years during a boom period, it took 14 years (01-15). Also add in the internet, large amount of channels/entertainment options, WWE's ratings fall isn't nearly as bad.

Average House Show Attendance:
1998 - 8,029
2000-2001 - 2,677
As of 2016, WWE has not dipped below 3000 (not 100% on this).

WCW also cut back to two hours in 2000. Meaning loss of 3rd hour ad revenue (millions). Meltzer reported it wasn't a growth in expenses that hurt WCW but a collapse in revenue. That seems accurate as WCW obviously cut back on production and had attendance collapse. Ad revenue collapsed. TV ratings collapsed. PPV buys collapsed.

WCW's collapse was truly astounding. It was gushing blood and it was only getting worse. With 3 years of bleeding and no end in sight, it only made sense for WCW to die.
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2018, 11:29 PM
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WCW some of the highest ratings on TNT or TBS at that time though, I can see wanting to sell the company to stop the bleeding but I cant see wanting to boot it off of the network unless there was another agenda going on
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2018, 11:35 PM
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WCW some of the highest ratings on TNT or TBS at that time though, I can see wanting to sell the company to stop the bleeding but I cant see wanting to boot it off of the network unless there was another agenda going on
Misleading. They were getting high ratings but they were not pulling in full ad revenue. Wrestling has a problem with ads. The stigma of wrestling added with the low income of average wrestling fans makes advertisers shy away from them (I can go into a lot more detail here). Basically they could replace WCW with a lower rated show but make more money off of ads.

There was a reason no other network wanted to take on a TV show with high ratings.
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2018, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therockiswwf View Post
I'm pretty sure Bischoff said it was like that the entire time. So that means if that is true, they never actually made or lost the amount of money reported. But you can look at it this way:
When they were popular, the reported profit was high.
When they weren't, the reported profit went down.

Let's look at WCW figures to see if the company was in a downward spiral:

Total PPV Buys:
1998 (12) - 4,290,000
2000-2001 (15) - 1,145,000
WWE - Last time they had under 2 million PPV buys was in 97 (site may not have counted IYH, so it may have been even further back).

TV Ratings:
1998 - 4.37
2000-2001 - 2.63
This happened to WWE too. Except instead of it occurring in two years during a boom period, it took 14 years (01-15). Also add in the internet, large amount of channels/entertainment options, WWE's ratings fall isn't nearly as bad.

Average House Show Attendance:
1998 - 8,029
2000-2001 - 2,677
As of 2016, WWE has not dipped below 3000 (not 100% on this).

WCW also cut back to two hours in 2000. Meaning loss of 3rd hour ad revenue (millions). Meltzer reported it wasn't a growth in expenses that hurt WCW but a collapse in revenue. That seems accurate as WCW obviously cut back on production and had attendance collapse. Ad revenue collapsed. TV ratings collapsed. PPV buys collapsed.

WCW's collapse was truly astounding. It was gushing blood and it was only getting worse. With 3 years of bleeding and no end in sight, it only made sense for WCW to die.
I get your point but my problem with this is that you're using Meltzer as a source for all of this and we all know how reliable a Meltzer report is as far as financial is concern. It worth almost nothing because Meltzer base is report on third hand source and doesn't know what's really going on within the company.

He did that for years with wcw and He's still doing it to this day with WWE. The rest I can believe since this was release when WCW went out of business and they we're force to release some of this info. But again, the only person that really knows what really happen with wcw is those that worked in wcw at the time. WCW was always treated as a afterthought by Turner executive even when they turned a profit. That's sad but It's true, they never cared about wrestling and the only reason it lasted as long as it did was because of Ted Turner. When Turner got ousted, wcw died.
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2018, 03:27 PM
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I was never a WCW fan when they were on but just watched Spring Stampede 2000 last week for the first time and I really enjoyed it. Now I pretty much watched that show in a vacuum, so I'm sure in the context of more Russo booking it might have been much worse. That being said, the only thing I didn't like was that the finish to almost every match was the same but by the end I honestly was still very entertained with the end result.

It honestly made me want to watch the rest of 2000 to see what happens with the New Blood
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:12 AM
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The $63M loss suffered in 2000 by WCW would have been much higher had the company not made cut backs in the 2nd half of the year. The company were at least trying to put things right albeit to no avail.
After BATB Hogan was gone, by the autumn Scot Hall was (finally) fired, the incapacitated Bret Harts contract expired… other high earners such as Savage, Piper, Curt Hening were gone.
So it did finally give WCW some fresh blood to push into the main event- though Booker and even Steiner may have been considered midcard material up to that point, it was step in the right direction for WCW…. Booker being the hero, and Steiner cutting the best promos of his career had a real menacing aura about him (probably as he had the same conduct backstage!).

But it came too late…. The ship was almost sunk. WCW had kept the old guys on top for so long to justify paying them such high contracts…. Had they not been tied down to such long term/guaranteed money deals, and had WCW been able to get rid of most of them in 1999- pushing the younger guys a year earlier, then maybe…. maybe there would have been a life line.
Removing some of the big names may have hurt revenue to an extent… but saved massively on costs.

Vince Russo accelerated the decline with his nonsense booking (that was alien to the loyal NWA/WCW die hard fans who watched WCW because it was an alternative to the WWE). Russo was ousted not long after BATB so he would have been out of the picture too by the autumn/winter and allow a new booker to focus on wrestling over OTT storylines.

Building the company around Booker, Steiner, Goldberg (upon him returning) you still having marquee WCW names like Sting, Flair, Nash, Luger, DDP and an able supporting cast of Jarrett, Lance Storm, Bigelow, Douglas and young upcomers- Kidman, Mysterio, Chavo, Helms, Palumbo, O’Haire.
It clearly lacks the name power of the mid-late 90s when Bischoff brought in the big WWF stars…. But really no worse (in terms of name value) than it has been in 1991 or 1992 when WCW was a clear 2nd to the WWE.

Had the costs not been so great- and WCW had the opportunity to rebuild on its late 2000 roster, it was certainly improving in terms of match quality and the potential to find a new identity. They shouldn’t have tried to compete with WWE- Just offer an alternative and focus on wrestling as an in-ring product (as the NWA had) as opposed to the soap storylines of the WWE. That would have at least catered for the die hard WCW fans who loved the product before it became a poor mans WWE.

The problem being that by the time WCW was trying to put things right most people had already switched off after the ridiculous 18 months that preceded it.

The TV execs had wanted to get rid of WCW for a while and the huge financial losses was all they needed to pull the plug
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