WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > Old School Wrestling
Register FAQForum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-28-2018, 08:36 AM
enviousdominous's Avatar
enviousdominous enviousdominous is offline
Behold my diction
WWE European Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,849
enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...enviousdominous is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

I'm not a big fan of either man, so pardon my bluntness. The big question being; who did more?

Hogan filled the cliché role of a Rocky clone with an extensive shirt budget. He was phenomenal in that role, but he was Vince's pick for that role before he ever started working for him. Hogan followed his script, he did some leg drops, and he worked out with Mr. T.

Austin didn't fill a role at all, he became the hero that the WWE needed most by accident. Austin fought tooth and nail to be seen as the best in a world championship field where there was virtually no room for an up and comer. The WWE gave him a platform, he used it to create a cultural phenomenon. The Stone Cold Steve Austin character was huge because he made it huge.

I'm not going to speculate on whose contributions accumulated the most ticket sales. Steve Austin did more to ensure that the WWF would survive.
__________________
There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - Hamlet
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:49 AM
FromGlasgow's Avatar
FromGlasgow FromGlasgow is offline
Registered User
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 695
FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
It would be nice if people answered the question that was asked instead of who was a bigger star. That is not what was asked. Who prevented WWF from going under? You can choose either for any number of reasons, but answer the question. And that “without Vince” answer by Glasgow or whatever was pathetic. You can end any debate by giving Vince the credit. Such a lame response. Horrible.
Wow you sound like a fun guy HeenanGorilla by reading all your previous posts.
It wasn't even you who asked the question but I'm guessing you must be using some sort of fake name.
I hate those who act like the big man insulting people and knocking everyones answers like a little troll behind the safety of their computer screen, Someone like you would never say these things in person to someones face.
Disagree with my answers all you want no need for the insults though.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:30 AM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 525
HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FromGlasgow View Post
Wow you sound like a fun guy HeenanGorilla by reading all your previous posts.
It wasn't even you who asked the question but I'm guessing you must be using some sort of fake name.
I hate those who act like the big man insulting people and knocking everyones answers like a little troll behind the safety of their computer screen, Someone like you would never say these things in person to someones face.
Disagree with my answers all you want no need for the insults though.
The OP's question was an either/or. If you feel neither, why respond? To answer a "Hogan or Austin?" question with 'If there was no Vince McMahon there would be no Hogan or Austin" is lame. No shit. Why have any wrestling debates if the acceptable answer is 'If there was no Vince McMahon there would be no Hogan or Austin". Who was a better IC champ? Tito Santana or HBK? "My answer is neither one would have been IC champ if not for Vince McMahon." Great insight! A nice obvious blanket statement that doesn't address the question asked.

As far as hiding behind my keyboard, I'm sorry. Is there a live WrestleZone forum arena? I don't believe there is. Using my keyboard doesn't mean I'm hiding behind it. Would I say it to your face if such an arena existed? No, because I can't imagine the gaggle of jerkoffs that would be in attendance. But if I ever find out you're in front of me, I'll be sure to say "Your response was lame" to your face, because that is how I can prove I am not...afraid of you? Haha, I can't...I tried to play along, but the only thing sillier than your Vince answer to a Hogan or Austin question is your generic troll behind a keyboard response that has been used a billion times and doesn't apply here. Question: How are you responding to these posts? Behind a keyboard is the only way I know how, but would love to learn a new method. Respond whenever you get a chance, I'll be here wetting my pants hoping you never find me in the meantime.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-28-2018, 12:34 PM
George Steele's Barber's Avatar
George Steele's Barber George Steele's Barber is offline
Advertise Here $9.95/month
Intercontinental Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,886
George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
I used to post here as HeenanGorilla and had my name changed to Shrubbery by an admin. I think it was my disapproval of his PPV reviews that broke the camel's back, but I'm not sure. Regardless, the reason for me not being able to post elsewhere within this forum isn't why I am writing today.

I am writing to an unknown, and possibly non-existent, WrestleZone forum reader or readers. I foolishly took anger and disappointment in certain things in my life and brought them to something that brought me a lot of joy as a kid--pro wrestling, more specifically a forum on a website devoted to pro wrestling.

My memories of wrestling are some of my most cherished. Not only the wrestlers and the matches, but all that came with being a fan back then: LJN figures, WWF Magazine, trading cards, ice cream bars, Saturday morning TV shows and heavily-hyped and equally-anticipated PPVs 3 or 4 times a year.

I was a diehard fan from the age of 7 to about 13. Sarcasm aside, I truly don't know if it was the New Generation Era or the fact that I was entering my teens that took my interests away from wrestling. I was familiar with the goings on for a few years, though not a "fan", and then came back pretty attentively during the Monday Night Wars. Since then, I watch the occasional PPV and check sites like this one for potential interviews from guys who wrestled back in that era. I will also occasionally put on RAW for a segment or two or read results of a recent event and am glad to see that WWE seems to at least be trying to right some recent wrongs with their product. Interest in the current product seems to be high, which I am glad to see...not glad for myself, but for today's fans.

For whatever reason, a lot of my posts on here would quickly go from a memory of something I enjoyed as a kid to personal shots at another poster who didn't agree with me or didn't seem to understand things in the right context. I don't mean to say they didn't "understand" in a derogatory way. I should have realized that a lot of wrestling fans of today weren't around when these things were happening. They have to depend on edited recordings or word of mouth to learn the history of certain wrestlers or angles or promotions. I've even seen some wrestling biographies, either intentionally or not, try to re-write history.

Anyway, the reason I am writing today is to apologize for those posts. I would really lay into some people and judge them for committing so much of their adult life to pro wrestling or chanting "What?" or buying/wearing merchandise. I had no right to judge these people. I see nowadays how people attack others online whether through comment sections or forums or whatever else. There's bullying and all kinds of ugliness out there. I realized that I was no better by going after some guy on here because he didn't know how to spell or got his historical facts mixed up.

This isn't a plea to get out of "prison". I will occasionally see a topic I would like to comment on and it's a shame that I can't, but that isn't this issue here. I have just read and seen so many stories of people taking great offense to what is said to them online, by strangers or people they know, that I figured if there was a chance I offended someone and they might see this post, it was worth writing it.

I hope that people enjoy wrestling anywhere near the amount I did back then. If so, good for you! It was aimed at kids back then and apparently it is aimed at kids again now...but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with all people finding entertainment in it. Enjoy the show!
Vagina

I don't know who was more integral but I would guess Austin. Sounds like WWE was in worse shape at that time and Austin, the person, had more influence over his success than Hogan did. But who really knows, I just came here to say vagina.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-28-2018, 01:41 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 525
HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Steele's Barber View Post
Vagina

I don't know who was more integral but I would guess Austin. Sounds like WWE was in worse shape at that time and Austin, the person, had more influence over his success than Hogan did. But who really knows, I just came here to say vagina.
You go back and dig up an old post from a different thread, post it here, call me a vagina, admit that is the only reason you came here...and I am the one with the problem? Get a life, man.

I have every right to point out when someone's response is off topic. I do not have to agree with everyone's opinion and I don't want everyone to agree with mine. That would be incredibly boring. But when the question asked is in reference to WWF going out of business and the only options given for this particular debate are Austin and Hogan, answers that refer to Vince or answers that address a different Hogan/Austin argument altogether are out of place and irrelevant to this thread. I am not trolling, I am not picking fights. If someone feels bad that I pointed out their foolishness, maybe they should try to make more sense. It's not like I'm in favor of Hogan or Austin and am bashing anyone who picked the other one. I'm simply pointing out that a question was posed and most of the responses don't answer it.

If I were to, for example, point out that your Manny from Modern Family/Samoa Joe joke is not only unfunny, but has been there for far too long, THAT would be douchey. But to ask that the responses answer the question that was asked, that is completely reasonable.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-28-2018, 06:07 PM
FromGlasgow's Avatar
FromGlasgow FromGlasgow is offline
Registered User
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 695
FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...FromGlasgow is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
You go back and dig up an old post from a different thread, post it here, call me a vagina, admit that is the only reason you came here...and I am the one with the problem? Get a life, man.

I have every right to point out when someone's response is off topic. I do not have to agree with everyone's opinion and I don't want everyone to agree with mine. That would be incredibly boring. But when the question asked is in reference to WWF going out of business and the only options given for this particular debate are Austin and Hogan, answers that refer to Vince or answers that address a different Hogan/Austin argument altogether are out of place and irrelevant to this thread. I am not trolling, I am not picking fights. If someone feels bad that I pointed out their foolishness, maybe they should try to make more sense. It's not like I'm in favor of Hogan or Austin and am bashing anyone who picked the other one. I'm simply pointing out that a question was posed and most of the responses don't answer it.

If I were to, for example, point out that your Manny from Modern Family/Samoa Joe joke is not only unfunny, but has been there for far too long, THAT would be douchey. But to ask that the responses answer the question that was asked, that is completely reasonable.
This is worse than I thought thanks to George Steele's message you just sound completely insane HeenanGorilla. I'm not trying to be harsh but reading this you sound mentally unstable.
I hate bullies and I'm not letting a little troll like you talk down to me like you do with others on here.
I like when people don't agree with me and debating our opinions but no need for the personal insults not just to me but all the others you insult, Thats including all the fake names or personalities you come on this message board with, you freaking schitzo.

Last edited by FromGlasgow : 03-28-2018 at 06:11 PM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:34 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 525
HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...HeenanGorilla worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FromGlasgow View Post
This is worse than I thought thanks to George Steele's message you just sound completely insane HeenanGorilla. I'm not trying to be harsh but reading this you sound mentally unstable.
I hate bullies and I'm not letting a little troll like you talk down to me like you do with others on here.
I like when people don't agree with me and debating our opinions but no need for the personal insults not just to me but all the others you insult, Thats including all the fake names or personalities you come on this message board with, you freaking schitzo.
Just the one name, pal. I’m not surprised your read of the situation is so off. Since this is our last time speaking, I’d like to leave you with some life advice. Just keep in mind, when life presents you with a fork in the road and your choices are Hogan or Austin, remember to use all of the intelligence in your brain and choose Vince McMahon.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:58 AM
MrMojoRisin MrMojoRisin is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 965
MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
WWWF was renamed WWF in 1979, well before Rocky III and WrestleMania. If you're going to speak so definitively, you should do some more homework.

While I will always agree that Hogan was MUCH more important to the history of the company than Austin was, I'm not sure he is the definitive answer to this particular question.

A lot of the responses point to Hogan saving Vince's "all-in" gamble with the inaugural WrestleMania. But, Mania wasn't this going-out-of-business clearance sale where Hogan just luckily popped up and saved the day. The entire event was an investment based on Hogan's popularity. Yes, the company was apparently putting all of its eggs in that basket, but to say Hogan saved WWF is painting an inaccurate portrait of the situation.

I don't think Austin single-handedly saved WWF either. As others have said, although Austin was the biggest name of the Attitude Era, there was plenty there to pick up the slack had he been lifted out of the equation. Austin was huge, but nowhere near the level of Hogan.

However, to answer the question of the OP, I would have to say Austin prevented the company from going under more than Hogan did. Again, he was not the ONLY reason WWF turned things around in the Monday Night Wars. But, 1985 WWF was not in the pickle late 90s WWF was...so Austin is the answer by default. Hogan can't have saved a company from peril, when the whole reason the company was in any danger in the first place was this strategic investment made in Hogan. A fireman can't light a building on fire, put the fire out and then be called a hero for extinguishing it. There was no fire here until Vince decided to bet heavy on the rising star of Hulkamania. To imply that WWF was in trouble and needed WrestleMania to bail it out is misleading. WWF was fine, but Vince wasn't fine with fine. He CHOSE to go for broke and it paid off because of Hogan. But, again, to say Hogan saved this company--when he was the reason for the gamble in the first place--is incorrect.

So, disqualifying Hogan makes Austin the answer to this question.
In Bret Hart's book, he mentions the first time he met Vince McMahon.

It was at a NWA board of governors conference. Stu invited Bret to come down with him for the conference that year for a few reasons. A nice father/son trip. A good chance to show Bret off to the type of people that could help both his career, and Stu's own business. A chance to teach Bret more about the family business.

It was also the first one after Vince had purchased the WWF from his dad. This was significant because the rumblings were already out there that he didn't plan on respecting the traditional boundaries and the old promoters that made up the NWA board of governors weren't going to put up with that.

They all sat down and laid out how things weren't going to change, how New York was going to respect the traditions, what would happen otherwise. And McMahon listened to it all, then stood up and walked out of the room.

That was in 1982. Years before Wrestlemania. Back when Hulk Hogan wasn't Hulk Hogan. He was just an up and coming heel. It was still another year before Thunderlips and Rocky 3. He hadn't gone to the AWA yet to fight Bockwinkel and show how over he could get as a good guy. Hulkamania didn't exist.

And still Vince McMahon was planning his great expansion. He didn't have his foundation yet, but he was still starting to build.

McMahon was going to go for it with or without Hogan. He didn't even know a Hogan existed when he made that decision. Without Hogan? The entire thing never stands a chance and they fail.

In the 90's with Austin, I have a couple problems.

First one is that I think it's been overstated how dire the WWF's situation was before Stone Cold broke through and captured the public's conscious. We know what he told Bret Hart when he wanted to break his contract. But then very shortly after, they were still able to pay millions to Mike Tyson on what was really a massive gamble. I don't think they were in great shape, but I don't think they were as bad as they told Bret they were. That was just an excuse to get him to leave because they'd made up their minds to back Shawn Michaels over him.

The second one, is that Austin himself got the chance to break through because of Hogan and the NWO. They were the ones that got people interested in wrestling again. Before Hogan and the NWO, public interest in wrestling was at a very low point. Without Hogan reigniting that public interest, does anyone other than the die hards who never stopped watching even notice Stone Cold Steve Austin? That's actually debatable.

Sure Mike Tyson helped in this regard, but in January 1998, Mike Tyson was turning people off. He was a convicted rapist. His boxing license had been revoked. He was a side show. If casuals had already not started watching wrestling again to some degree (because of Hogan), then it's hard to say that Tyson would have been able to give Austin a big enough stage to make the same mark that he did.

This is taking absolutely nothing away from Steve Austin. He was incredible, and absolutely brought the WWF to new heights, and ushered in a new golden era for that company.

But the question who was more integral to the WWE not going under? The answer is Hulk Hogan.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:48 AM
oneguy oneguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 24
oneguy is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I would have to go with Austin. While there is no denying that Hogan made WWE what it is today, and it can be argued that it never would have gotten as big in the 80's without Hogan, WWE was never under threat. All of the wrestling promotions at that time, save NWA, were still territories. They didn't have the money to seriously challenge WWE, and they didn't.
Fast forward to the 90's and WCW came along. And they did have the money to challenge WWE. And they did challenge WWE. So much in fact that they beat WWE for 86 straight weeks or something like that. What's more, they were able to take superstars away from WWE much like WWE did to other promotions. Things were looking dire for them, but then Austin was an integral part in turning things around. He helped reverse the trend. So yeah. I would definitely go with Austin. Like you said, it's not based on who was more popular, because I believe Hogan was. But WWE was never really under threat when Hogan took the reigns.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:37 PM
Wolf Pac's Avatar
Wolf Pac Wolf Pac is offline
Registered User
ROH Pure Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,472
Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...Wolf Pac is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
While I will always agree that Hogan was MUCH more important to the history of the company than Austin was.

I don't think Austin single-handedly saved WWF either. As others have said, although Austin was the biggest name of the Attitude Era, there was plenty there to pick up the slack had he been lifted out of the equation. Austin was huge, but nowhere near the level of Hogan.
LMAO, coming from someone named "HeenanGorilla", I'm not surprised your biased ass would say something so ignorant like this and then you have the nerve to complain, asking people not to talk about who is more popular when you just did it yourself.

Not only was Austin on Hogan's level and just as important to the business as he was, if not more important to the business than Hogan was, he surpassed Hogan and was more popular & got bigger pops than he did. Now feel free to cry some more.

As for the answer to this question, it's Austin, hands down.

Without Austin, pro-wrestling is dead and buried today along with its history. Wouldn't even be a memory and some of you wouldn't be on this forum today spewing your ignorant garbage in this thread about how Hogan was more intergral or popular or whatever. Fact is had Austin not been there to save the WWF from WCW, the WWF would've gone under and WCW would've eventually gone under too from their own fuck ups and Turner pulling the plug on them. Austin made more money for the WWF than Hogan, took it global and to bigger heights where it became a public company, when Austin started the second boom for the WWF in the US, he also made wrestling a mainstream pop culture phenomenon over in the UK as WCW never did anything for the UK or any country outside of the US. Wrestling also got big in other countries during the Attitude Era.

As for the other ignorant comment that Austin had others to help him, do you really think anybody else could've replaced Austin in that feud with McMahon? Do you think it would've been the same with another person in Austin's role? Austin was the perfect character and guy to be feuding with McMahon, no one could have pulled it off the way he did. Not Rock, not Mankind, not Undertaker, not Triple H, not anybody. Someone said Mankind vs. Rock on January 4th but what was the feud interwined with Mankind vs. Rock to help it put WCW in the grave, Austin vs. McMahon. Who got the WWF to that point where that show/match could take place and put WCW in it's grave? Austin. Austin saved the WWF, built momentum and got it to a point where it would do absolutely fine in his absence and do bigger numbers as the years went on. Austin beat NWO, Sting, Goldberg and by 2000, the WWF was beating some of wrestling's greatest blunders. Without Austin, WWF might not have even lasted to 2000. Wrestlemania 14 was do or die for them and without Austin there, it fails and WWF dies along with the rest of wrestling.

Last edited by Wolf Pac : 03-29-2018 at 06:06 PM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices