Is CM Punk Right?

[mojmass]

Come on, the fans!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????
Do they really matter????
of course not, each single person in wwe is there to both have fun and make a lot of money by deceiving us and make our pocket empty to fill their own and everyone is included in this example more than all Vince mcMahon. when I say everyone I mean it. It is The Rock, John Cena, CM Punk, and every other assholes in wwe and I don't care if any of you are a fanatic fan of those who I named but you have to face it and that is the TRUTH.
And I don't know what the hell is wrong with us and why we keep watching wwe when we know it is all fake. Maybe because we love action movie so much or we just like being fooled.

[THE Great GAMMA]

Ok i think some folks are missing the point of the CM Punk “shoot”. And on most points i agree with what he is saying

Lets break it down shall we:

“The truth about WWE is it doesn’t matter if you’re the best wrestler or best talker because there’s a glass ceiling and nobody is allowed to break. The more popular you are the more money you can make. Why do you think John Cena is getting title shot after title shot?”

That’s fair enough and understandable and completely true. If you do not draw or sell then you wont be in the main event. But you cant draw or sell if the company does have faith in you. In the case of John Cena even though he has not lost to Cena on PPV in nearly two years the WWE has a storyline where Punk has to validate his title reign by beating Cena again instead of the pushing Punk to be a top guy he still had to be in cena’s shadow. Even after out selling him merchandise wise for a couple of months.

This leads to the second bit

He wondered why Daniel Bryan puts a smile on his face to spout catchphrase. He wondered why a 400 pounder like Brodus Clay would rather play with kids. He then talked about how Little Jimmy is better positioned than a workhorse like Tyson Kidd. The crowd cheered, so he said the crowd was doing it now. He called it like a circus.

This i agree with too. You see the crowed can pop or cheer all they want when someone is mentioned, or they can scream out YES!!! all they want but the fact remains they wont buy the merchandise of these guys they would more than likely buy Cena’s. They can cheer all they want and scream all they want and even if they do if the company doesn’t believe in you then you get ignored (enter zack riders career here). It can be compared to stories about the games at the colloseum in ancient rome. Where a gladiator would be the equivalent of Massivley over with the crowed but when it came time for the crowd to make a choice between that guys life or death invariably they would pick death.

Next:
He said he’s the most dominant champion of all time, not just of the modern era. He said he wrestled so many demanding matches on television for one year that it’s more difficult than the schedule that guys like Bruno Sammartino & Hulk Hogan had.

I agree about the schedule and matches (probably) the most dominant....not so much. Quality of work yes he is up there as for being dominant i don’t really think so.

Standards compared to then and now..a lot higher (the modern audience is a lot harder to please than in the past because we have seen it all). Level of censorship and politically correctness in the product between now and then. A lot tighter. You think that Piper and the WWE could of ever gotten away with the coconut thing today?
There is an article up about Billy Graham moaning about what punk said about Bruno Sanmartino here it is: (sorry about the copy paste)


"IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR CM PUNK

I watch the last hour of WWE Raw last night. It was the worst excuse for a show I have ever seen! My agent Scott is tight with legendary World Champion Bruno Sammartino. Scott has told me that WWE has been calling Brunno regularly begging him to go into the Hall of Fame. Bruno has been polite but has always said no thank you.

Tonight on RAW for the last 45 minutes of the show all they did was have CM PUNK talk, talk and more talk! The killer line came when Vince had Punk putting over his 314 straight days as world champ and then said and I quote, ” you had people like Burno Sammartino , only wrestled in Madison Square Garden only wrestled one a month.”

This was by far the biggest put down of Bruno ever. Why would WWE have Punk say that about someone they have been begging to go into the Hall of Fame for untold years? When that teenager looking CM Punk made that statement he was also talking about me, Ivan Koloff , Stan Hanson etc. Find the re run and listen closely and answer me this my Facebook friends – How can they justify putting down a real icon like this, and not get called out on it?

Any news sites can quote me on my statement below:

CM Punk, I have lost all respect for you for nor saying no to the writers of the WWE for saying Bruno Sammartino only wrestled once a month in Madison Square Garden. You talk about one of the greatest icons ever in pro wrestling like he was a JOBBER??? You should be ashamed of yourself for not having the self-dignity to say NO to the writers on that line. That line you delivered indicates that I am a big loser like Bruno as well and insults me as I wrestled in the same era as Bruno. This only confirms more that I want my name out of the WWE Hall of Fame.

How many monthly sell outs have you yourself drawn at Madison Square Garden? Not a PPV or the Raw TV show. Quit talking trash about Bruno. It’s an insult to him and all the wrestlers of his era including myself!

Superstar Billy Graham"

Chances are if you add up the amount of times Punk has wrestled in the past year compared to the guys of that era then Punk is right. Punk has probably had more title matches in the past year than those guys would have had total matches in the same period. So take what Billy is saying with a grain of salt.

Punk made fun of others saying “let’s hear it for Tampa, Florida” and like dummies they cheered. Punk said he saw Roddy Piper crack a coconut over Jimmy Snuka’s head and that inspired him. CM Punk brought up how guys like Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels and Edge all said they competed for the fans. Punk said he’s not weak or dishonest. He said he’s the best in the world. Punk said there are winners and losers – guess which one the fans are? Punk said they’re born to see champions like him. He’s never done this for any of the fans.

What he is saying is true. Just ask Mic Foley hell even the Rock does it. The cheap pop is part of wrestling no doubt. The rest is done for heel heat so thats not really a point to comment on.

Ok so thats basically the only points that we needed to agree with. Like i said the rest was just heel heat as we have become accustomed to.

Now something else that has come up in this thread was that guys are upset backstage about the Rock getting a title shot.

What I would think pisses they guys in the back off is that this match was made 8 months ago. The same with Cena vs The Rock that was made a Year in advance and was already decided to be the Closing match of Wrestlemania. Now in any profession. If there is supposed to be a motivator for you and someone comes in and tells you well you can work all you want but in 8 months the bosses have decided that i get what you have been working for and i only have to pitch up 20 days before then to get it. That would upset anyone.

But anyway to the point:

I agree with most of what Punk had to say.

[TheHorndogSays]

I feel it's for the fans and also for his enjoyment. Guys like Rock and Jericho get a LOT of heat for switching back and forth from Wrestling to Hollywood and Music. People can have multiple passions in life. Plus when you consider Rock realizes he can make a LOT more money doing a big action movie opposed to Wrestling all over the world with wear and tear on the body. Maybe Rock felt his body needed some rest. After all "wear and tear on wrestler bodies" is the number one reason why so many on this very forum seem to be so in favor of a wrestling off-season. On the other hand, while I'm not talking from experience, I've read lots of stories/reports that there is nothing like getting that immediate feedback from the fans for a big spot or great match.

To those who say Rock wouldn't do this for free, they are right that he wouldn't BUT he is taking a HUGE paycut to do so. I don't think people realize just how much money A-list movie stars make (and yes Rock is in that category now IMO) so for everyone complaining "Rock is only doing this to make a million dollars for 4 months of work" he could EASILY be making 10 million in that same 4 months shooting another movie.

[CrucifiedRaven]

Originally Posted by ECW Sandman

So here's my question to everyone


Of what CM Punk said on RAW Do YOU Feel that The Rock is there really for the fans Or is he just back to get a paycheck and to boost his ego.

Of course CM Punk is right. It's a semi-shoot. They're ALL only there to get a paycheck.

The Rock especially knows that he can work a very limited schedule and cash in on a BIG pay day at WrestleMania. Of course that's the only reason he's back. And Vince pays him because Vince knows that he can use The Rock to get over a million buys for Mania 29.

It's all business. Vince pushes the guy and will put the title on the guy who makes him the most money. It's been that way since the beginning of pro wrestling.

[jacdnwarrior]

WWE reached out to the Rock, because they needed him. They needed him because the company was losing money. With the main event stars, they had they were losing money. Rock didn't have to return, he could have said, 'you want me to come back to save your ass, and screw up my promising Hollywood career ? You want me to come back to less money and harder work ? Fuck no. Get out of your mess on your own.' What would the lockerroom have said then ? Many would have cursed the Rock for not returning.

Rock says, sure I'll put my career on hold to help the company that made me a household name and take far less money to do so. The lockerroom, or those in the lockerroom who are pissed about the Rock returning, just don't get it. It's not the Rock who came back to mess them up, it's the Rock who came back to save their company. It's not Rock who failed to create stars who could carry the company forward, Rock didn't fail to keep talent that could have helped the talent progress, it was Vince or the people who are surrounding him giving him these failed ideas on who to push, release and so on. The lockerroom's anger (if it's there) is horribly misplaced.

[JustAnotherJames]

The Rock didn't have to come back but he did. As a fan from the Attitude Era I welcome the Rocks return. However I can understand where CM Punk is coming from...

The Rumble Match between Punk and The Rock is going to be a great match non the less even if it is set up for the Rock to win.

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Maybe he was right.Maybe The Rock came back for the BIG paycheck.Maybe The Rock came back only for himself.So,what's the big deal?The Rock draws twice the ratings and buyrates than your heroes Punk and Cena would ever do.Tyson Kidd is a workhorse?Good for him,but he,himself can't deny the fact that he ain't a draw.Bryan in the next 3-4 years will be main eventing shows for the company,and you know what will get him there?These comedy skits which got him over to be in the ME.WWE is a business company.They will feature the guys who draw.Rock draws,Cena draws,Punk to an extent draws.That's why love them or hate them,they will be getting titles and airtime more than anyone else.Punk,himself knows that.So right or wrong,Rock should be and will be getting title matches because he draws.

[Brahma_Bull9]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz

Punk has some valid points, but he is also a guy who is very much in his own world.

Punk is currently my #1 guy, I love watching him and I love listening to him, but he isn't perfect, and neither are his opinions. One of the biggest issues is the company Punk works for. This isn't a knock on the WWE, but what Punk and many IWC fans consider pro wrestling and what the WWE considers pro wrestling are two different things. IWC guys are geared more toward move counting and great technical displays. The WWE is geared more toward sports entertainment.

Does a guy like Tyson Kidd deserve recognition? Oh hell yes he does. He is very talented and works hard. However he isn't great on the mic, and while he may be able to pull of thirty or forty different moves a match, is he telling a compelling story? I honestly don't know because I can't remember the last time I saw a Tyson Kidd match that was long enough to tell a story.

In Punk's world, in his head, he truly is the best in the world. He cares about wrestling, it is probably the most important thing in his life. He is dedicated to it. However, his opinion on what wrestling should be isn't the same opinion as the company he works for. You can call a guy like The Rock or Cena out for kissing the WWE fans asses or kissing Vince's ass, but isn't Punk kissing IWC ass each time he "shoot" in one of his promos.

Plus, as sad as it is, not everyone can be world champion. Look at Tyson Kidd, then look at Ryback. Look at Daniel Bryan and then look at John Cena. Based on looks alone who would win a fight? It may be part of backwards thinking, and I don't agree with it, but it still exists. Having "the look" is a huge part of being a pro wrestler, just like it is a part of being any entertainer, which in the end is what pro wrestlers are, entertainers.

I don't understand Punk fans. Do you guys seriously take every word he says as if he means it? He is a character like everyone else, and like all the real successful gimmicks in the WWE part of that character is rooted in who he is as a person which gives him the ability to take it to another level.

It was all show, some of it is rooted in some grain of truth. Most of it omitting the fact that heels work in the same way, the more heat you draw the more you win. It isn't just popularity and Punk knows that, that's his current position. However, he can't just say I come out here and talk out my ass half the time just to get under your skin so I stay relevant. Now if he did that too it'd be shoot promo.

So in my opinion their isn't a right or wrong, it's a fucking angle. I can't believe I've read 5 pages of people actually deliberating over a kayfabe story line as if it were the words of a prophet.