Ultimate Warrior's Best Match

[HBKistheHOF]

I'm pretty shocked too that you didn't include any Warrior/Rick Rude matches.

I have never liked the Ultimate Warrior but I loved both feuds for the IC & WWF titles with Rick Rude. They had some very memorable matches at Summerslam & Wrestlemania among others. And who can forget the Royal Rumble pose down?! Warriors feud with Rude REALLY excelled both men & was by far Warriors best feud ever IMO & a highlight of Rude's.

Also, while they never had a high-profile singles match I'm aware of, the only other person I loved seeing Warrior face was Mr. Perfect. The Perfect Team vs. The Ultimate Warriors at Survivor Series 1990 is one of my alltime favorite SS matchups & a highlight of Warriors somewhat limited career IMO.

But out of your two options, I gotta go with Savage. I'm partially biased cause I've never enjoyed Hogan & Savage is one of my all time favorites & can't have a bad match. But honestly besides the double clothesline & Edge sitting in the audience, I don't remember a single thing about Hogan/Warrior. Yeah it was an "epic" confrontation for it's time & the first time someone beat Hogan at Mania but the match itself kinda sucked. Savage & Warrior had a GREAT match & was a very emotional & memorable Mania bout.

[SinCityBlitz]

For me it was Hogan vs Warrior. A match this big between two top baby faces in the business didn't happen often at all. The build up was perfect and who would have thought that Hogan and Warrior could put on such a great match with each other?

I actually thought that Rude Vs Warrior was better than Savage vs Warrior. I love Savage his style didn't mesh well with Warrior.

Originally Posted by Steamboat Ricky

People really need to find Al Snow's shoot interview talking about what makes a wrestling match a "good" wrestling match.

Doesn't really matter what Al Snow thinks because this is a subjective subject. Not trying to sound like an ass.

Originally Posted by Steamboat Ricky

This picture captures what it would have been like if Warrior would have run down the aisle at full speed. Can't you see where a performer would feel uncomfortable doing that?

The aisle at Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas was a lot more narrow than that. He still ran down with no problems. This was when he was fighting Andre.

[ilapierre]

Steamboat Ricky: I'll give you one thing, good job on digging up the Hogan/Steamboat tag team match. But are you 26 years old? I don't know what I'm listed at here but I'm 31 in reality. I was 10 and you would have been 5 during WM7. How do you know for sure Savage and Warrior had no hype? I would have remembered that period of time better than you. Is it because you watch it on youtube now the crowd didn't pop like they did for Hogan/Slaughter or any other high profile Hogan match? America was at war, fans would have popped or marked out more visibly for Hacksaw Jim Duggan than they would have for either Warrior or Savage in a loser must retire match. I watched WM7 when it came out on video and I knew the ending but hadn't seen the match. I was on the edge of my seat hoping there'd be some loophole and neither would have to retire. I think when you look back at the video of this you see a lot of fans glued to their seats with their eyes on the ring but not really popping or booing. Savage was in the process of turning face and wasn't overly heel in the match. The fans were suppose to cheer Warrior and hate Savage but nobody was gonna pop to see two of the top three draws become instantly retired. This was a special match with much different circumstances than any high profile match ever. Like I said before, it'd be like if Rock was up against Stone Cold or Triple H on the grandest stage of them all back in 2000 and the loser had to retire in their prime when business was booming. Except by 2000 loser must retire matches didn't mean a whole lot anymore. Nowhere near what they meant in 1991. Anyway, the point here is that a loser must retire match between two of the top 3 stars in the company during a boom period wouldn't receive the same visible reaction as a straightforward face vs heel match.

Ok so supposing your facts are accurate, the buyrate of WM 6 would have been based on the Hogan vs Warrior main event. The rest of the card was not that spectacular. This match was absolutely huge. It put more butts in seats than anything besides Hogan/Andre or Hogan/Rock. I agree. So Warrior's best drawing match was his match vs Hogan. Anyone's best drawing match was their match against Hogan. According to you, WM 7 did 400,000 buys which is a bit less. The buys for that would have also been based on the main event which was Hogan vs Sgt Slaughter. So Hogan and Warrior outdrew Hogan/Slaughter. Savage vs Warrior wasn't part of a double main event. It was just the second biggest match on the card. Everyone expected it to be a better match than the main event but no one knew for sure what to expect. I don't think you can say the hype sucked or that people cared less about Savage vs Warrior because that Wrestlemania drew 150 000 less buys. 400,000 was still a lot of buys. What you could say though is fans cared considerably less about Hogan in the main event with Sgt. Slaugther.

Anyway, Savage vs Warrior was suppose to be the second big match but it exceeded expectations. It wasn't the second best match and it didn't have the obvious ending like the main event. It was an epic match and aftermath, it set the mood for the feel good vibe for the rest of the evening. Nobody who bought this PPV and no one in the audience knew how big this was going to be or how memorable this match was going to be. That was the true beauty of it. It was a gem overshadowed by a pretty lopsided main event. People didn't care as much going into the match as they ended up caring during of afterward. Should we say that Savage vs Steamboat sucked because everyone came to see Hulk vs Andre? Or could we say Savage vs Steamboat was an amazing match because it was in front of the largest wrestling audience of all time? That's flawed logic. So Warrior winning the world title from Hogan at WM 6 drew better and was better (should have been way better) from a career standpoint for the Ultimate Warrior. But Warrior vs Savage was a better match, had more emotion and stands the test of time better. When you look back at Hogan vs Warrior it's clear that this was only a temporary passing of the torch by Hogan as he was able to politic himself back into top spot within a year.

Anyway I'm not denying that anyone came close to outdrawing Hogan back in the day. Hogan was always my second favourite wrestler until Bret Hart got big. When Hogan turned heel and joined the NWO he became my second favourite wrestler all over again. His WCW days as leader of the NWO surpass for me the red, white and blue American hero days where no one could beat Hogan. I watched WCW and bought PPVs to see Hollywood Hogan. I'm never going to deny what Hogan did for wrestling or how high profile most of his matches were. I think his match with The Rock was way better than his Warrior match. Hogan vs Rock at WM18 may be my favourite match of all time because I did not expect to witness what I did coming into the match. Hogan's match with Andre is the most memorable one in the history of wrestling entertainment. All these matches included Hogan and were obvious draws because they were the main attractions. But Savage vs Warrior at WM 7 is one of very few high profile matches of the period which didn't include Hogan and wasn't the main event but completely blew people away. Had fans known how epic and memorable that match was going to be and had there been no Iraq war, this match would have completely overshadowed such a poor main event matchup.

As for Slaughter's half year of fabricated heat, you could have made Jim Powers an American turncoat and he could have main evented WM 7. He would have received just as many death threats. That's heat directed more at WWE for going ahead with that character and angle. Not so much the wrestling personality. Without the Iraq war, no one gave a shit about Sgt. Slaughter. He was always just one of those lower card guys before and that's where he ended up again after Summer Slam.

As for the poll, anyone who goes to this effort to complain about anybody with a differing opinion could also troll this site on secondary WZ accounts to vote for Hogan/Warrior in an effort strengthen his otherwise pretty weak argument. There are a lot more posters here who prefer Savage vs Warrior because they enjoyed the match and theatrics better. We're fans, the question was which Warrior match was the best not which match drew more PPV buys. You can't determine how good a match is by looking at the PPV buyrate. There could be a ton of other factors not related to either match as to why one PPV had a higher buyrate than another. Perhaps more fans tuned into WM 6 to see Dusty Rhodes and Sapphire kick Savage and Sherri's ass. Perhaps less fans didn't buy WM7 as much because Warrior wasn't champ anymore. You put too much stock in the buyrates. You could say that more fans were interested and anticipated an amazing Wrestlemania 6 and that the interest and anticipating was a little less for Wrestlemania 7. But that doesn't add or take away from the quality of the card or the main event matches. Drawing PPV buys determines which wrestlers and matches sold more. It does not determine who had the best matches. That would be determined after a qualitative analysis of the PPV. Had wrestling fans known that Hogan would leave the NWO and revert back to the red and yellow at Wrestlemania 18, then perhaps the buys would have been way better. The match means more looking back after the fact than it ever did going into Wrestlemania 18.

Savage was secondary to Hogan during this era and no one else. That's not a knock against Savage. Hogan is the most important wrestling entertainer of all time. Not the best, but definitely the best draw and biggest household name world wide. Saying Savage was a second rate wrestler is a bit ridiculous though. That's like saying that Lou Gehrig was second rate because he was overshadowed by Babe Ruth. Or Mario Lemieux was second rate because Wayne Gretzky was more important to hockey.

That's cool you own a Savage shirt. I never had a Savage one but I owned a Hogan beater. I saved it till 2003 when I marked out and ripped it up on national TV during a taping of Smackdown when Hogan came out as Mr. America. I was only there for Hogan. He drew me to the event. I definitely didn't come out to see Nash vs Triple H. But Hogan didn't come close to having the best match of the night. At least I can separate my subjective preference to watch Hogan from the fact Hogan doesn't usually give you the best match of the night.

And who gives a shit if Warrior walked to the ring or ran. The Warrior had never walked to the ring before. Perhaps it was because the aisle was too tight. So what? Warrior walked instead of running like a hyped up fool because this match meant more than any match before or after in his career. There was no room for error or overexerting himself (kayfabe). Warrior would have walked out had he been in the same kayfabe predicament at Trump Plaza or the Skydome.

For what it's worth, the Rick Rude/Warrior match was a pretty damn good match. From what I remember it was a better straightforward wrestling match than the other two and it's severely underrated. I think for match quality and overall effect though with careers on the line, with Warrior winning, kicking out of 5 big elbow drops and the whole aftermath that the WM7 match was Warrior's best.

[sanefan_har]

Steamboat Ricky I remember a jobber match I saw, it was the Warrior v Scott Colton. That aisle had to be one of the narrowest I've ever seen. Gorilla Monsoon on commentary noted that the hands of fans from both sides were touching each other. And bang comes Warrior running full speed. @WM7 Warrior was playing up the intensity of the match involved and hence he walked to the ring. And the fans tugging him, I watched the clip again. You were wrong, he was yet again playing up the intensity of the match by actually ignoring the fans and staring at Savage until he got to the ring apron. It(the entrance of Warrior) was all for storyline's sake and you're playing it up like some exclusive backstage report that never even happened (*cough*LaBar*cough*). And the isle was wide enough for Warrior to run through. Its just that booking decided it wouldn't be as noteworthy.

[Steamboat Ricky]

Originally Posted by sanefan_har

Steamboat Ricky I remember a jobber match I saw, it was the Warrior v Scott Colton. That aisle had to be one of the narrowest I've ever seen. Gorilla Monsoon on commentary noted that the hands of fans from both sides were touching each other. And bang comes Warrior running full speed. @WM7 Warrior was playing up the intensity of the match involved and hence he walked to the ring. And the fans tugging him, I watched the clip again. You were wrong, he was yet again playing up the intensity of the match by actually ignoring the fans and staring at Savage until he got to the ring apron. It(the entrance of Warrior) was all for storyline's sake and you're playing it up like some exclusive backstage report that never even happened (*cough*LaBar*cough*). And the isle was wide enough for Warrior to run through. Its just that booking decided it wouldn't be as noteworthy.

Ok, I'll ignore the fact that he was shrugging fans off of him and telling them to get off of him. Hogan/Warrior was intense with a lot on the line...Warrior ran. Same thing here. Warrior looked irritated walking down the ramp. Warrior has been known to do things not according to plan (no-showing events, wearing a baseball hat during a promo with King, etc); seems like a pretty reasonable hypothesis. I'll leave it at that.

[Just Do It]

The Mania 7 match was his best ever. Told a great story from his slow walk to the ring, the iconagraphy on his trunks, his comeback from certain defeat then all of the aftermath - it was one of wrestlings greatets moments frankly, from an entertainment point of view. There was no way they were beating that the following Summer...

[HBsam31]

Not that Warrior/Savage wasn't a great match, but what made that match so epic was what happened after the match. It's not to often where you get tears out of a live crowd. Hell even Bobby Heenan acknowledged what a moment it was. I will never forget him saying "this is sick' as the Savage and Liz kissed. What I remember more is The Brain selling the fact that they must have really loved each other. The point I am trying to make is the match was great, but ask anyone what they remember and they will tell you Savage and Liz reuniting. Hogan/Warrior to me is the no brainer. It may not have been a technical master piece, but come on, who here can tell me those two didn't have us hanging on every move they made. I was 10 and a Hogan fanatic, and I don't think I sat down the whole time. My parents who weren't even wrestling fan were barely able to keep still. It was just one of those special matches. My cousin, who watched it with us, was a lifelong Hogan fan who converted to Warriors side. That was a trend happening a lot as Warrior popularity was rivaling that of Hogan's. It was something that we had never seen before, and that just added to the epicness of the whole match. The match it self told a great story in that Warrior just matched everything Hogan tried to do to him, and when Hogan Hulked up the fan in me was begging for Hogan to finished him off, and when Warrior got out of the way of the leg drop and splashed Hogan for the pin it was just an unreal moment. As a kid I don't think I ever saw Hogan get pinned clean. I am not saying Warrior/Savage wasn't a great match, but as far as total packages go it has to be Warrior/Hogan.

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Well I think the one match that hasn't been mentioned yet was the rematch between Macho Man Randy Savage and the Ultimate Warrior at Summerslam 92. That match is largely forgotten thanks to that same ppv featuring probably one of the top 5 greatest matches in WWE history between Bret Hart and the British Bulldog. But the 2nd Warrior/Savage match was a great match too. IT wasn't as good as the first one because it didn't have as much on the line, didn't feel as epic, and it didn't tell as good a story (the who will Flair side with angle was kind of messed up).

But nonetheless, the Brain definitely picked the only real two contenders of what was truly the Warrior's greatest WWE matches, that being against Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania VI and against Macho Man at Wrestlemania VII. To me nothing else in his career comes close. Sure the Rick Rude matches were good and beneficial to both, but they just didn't have near the epic feel of the Wrestlemania matches. Heck the Summerslam 90 match was about half as long as the two Wrestlemania matches.

But anywho's, picking between the two, I have to go with Savage/Warrior. I've read all the defenses of Warrior/Hogan, and I completely agree with them. I won't fault anyone for picking Hogan/Warrior at all. I won't argue with you. But for me, personally, I just feel Savage/Warrior was an absolute masterpiece of a pro wrestling match.

From the beginning to end, there was a story being told. The opening moments where Warrior walks out instead of doing his usual running set the stage for one of the most masterfully told stories in wrestling history. Yes, Warrior walking out signified that this was the most important match in Warrior's career. He took this so serious that he was cautiously walking. That was the whole point of it. I can't believe that anyone doesn't get that. Then as the match builds and builds. Everyone points out Savage's five elbow drops and Warrior kicking out, but remember there was a moment in the match where Warrior did one of his finishers on Randy Savage, and Savage kicked out. That's the moment when Warrior almost walks out on the match (kayfabe) questioning whether he could defeat him. This was a vulnerable moment for the Warrior character which was brilliant to see. To me that made Savage look like a million bucks. Then in return, we get the memorable spot of Savage hitting his five elbow drops with Warrior kicking out, in return making Warrior look like a million bucks. This scenario was meant to portray that Warrior and Savage will put everything on the line for their careers.

It amazes me that people are criticizing this part of the match, when most likely those are the same people that praise the recent Undertaker Wrestlemania matches, as that's the exact same thing that happens in those matches. HBK and Triple H kicking out of the tombstone, Taker kicking out of the Pedigree and Sweet Chin Music. Heck, throughout the Attitude Era, every main event match featured guys hitting their finishers on each other and kicking out repeatedly (from Stone Cold, the Rock, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Taker, Big Show, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, etc.) This spot of kicking out of each other's finishers was groundbreaking and paved the way for the later WWE main event style of working a match. Making the matches more epic in the process. So the Warrior/Savage match not only told a great story, was technically sound, was an epic match, etc. But it was also groundbreaking and influential on the style of working in the coming years (just as Savage/Steamboat was).

Then we finally get Warrior coming back and ultimately defeating Savage with the one foot on the chest. This was maybe the one flaw of the match. I think it would've been better for Warrior to his his running splash maybe 2-3 times just as Savage had hit his best move multiple times, and then have Warrior put away Savage. That moment plus the match not being for the title along with the career is probably what prevents me from giving the match 5 stars (I gave 4 and 3/4 stars when I made my 50 Greatest Wrestlemania matches list awhile back). But it's still an amazing match.

Then we get the memorable, emotional ending with Randy and Liz reuniting. This match had everything, psychology, a great story, good wrestling, drama, and emotion of the highest order. It was close to a perfect match as you can get.


Hogan and Warrior was great and was done perfectly too. For the people that say the match wasn't technical enough, then you don't get the point of Hogan and Warrior. Hogan and Warrior weren't HBK and Bret Hart. They were the two most dominant powerhouses and forces in the WWE. They should've done double clotheslines and epic tests of strength rather than armdrags and dropkicks. And I definitely agree that for Warrior's career, the Hogan match was more important and beneficial. Hogan's match put Warrior on top. The Savage match was gonna result in Warrior having mid card feuds (Taker, and then Jake Roberts had he not left).

So for what mattered for Warrior's career the most, then it's definitely the Hogan match. It was peak moment of his wrestling career. But as far as just a flat out wrestling match goes, his match with Savage at Wrestlemania VII is his finest moment.

[sanefan_har]

Steamboat Ricky : Dude the "not doing things according to plan" phase was during the 1996 stint he had. Until Summerslam of 1991 Warrior was on good terms with Vince. Its then he started being a d**k because he felt he was owed more money. So again, your point is rendered invalid. And for the record, Warrior always looked pissed and intense coming to the ring. I've never seen him with a smile on his face.

To quote dd23beatlesfan1 : Yes, Warrior walking out signified that this was the most important match in Warrior's career. He took this so serious that he was cautiously walking. That was the whole point of it. I can't believe that anyone doesn't get that.

Especially you Steamboat. Especially you.