WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > The WrestleZone Forum Archives > The Wrestling Archives
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-08-2011, 03:07 AM
ABMorales787's Avatar
ABMorales787 ABMorales787 is offline
WZCW Grand Slam and
ECW Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Locked Inside A Steel Cage
Age: 26
Posts: 3,677
ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...ABMorales787 is being held back by Triple H...
Default #1 Guy = World Champion

Seems to be the popular claim to defend Randy Orton's latest title win over Christian. Great and dandy. No, I'm not gonna talk about Orton being "boring" or the "overlooking" of Christian or all the stuff that's been repeated over the last few days. I'm gonna focus on the main issue. The alleged mentality that warranted this decision. It dictate's something really simple and straight forward. If you are the top draw on the program, if you are the one who makes the crowd yell the loudest cheers or boo's that not only makes you the most successful in your role, but also dictates you have to be World Champion. That makes sense. I mean, that's kinda how you build your stars and all, right? But somewhere down the line, you gotta wonder... Does that little line need to be taken so seriously that we skip storylines, ignore builds, play politics and just swap champions in a two day's notice? Is that how the system works? Sure, maybe there's more to it than a simple title change and suddenly the entire status quo of the show changes. Maybe there is in fact a method to the controversy. Maybe. Maybe.

But why in God's green earth is that the only thing that makes a decision seem good? I'm not talking about Orton. I'm not talking about Christian. I'm not talking about Mr. McMahon. I'm not talking about the old lady across the street who seems to hate me. I mean you. You, with your hands on the keyboard. Why do you claim this? You don't? Move then, so I can point at the guy who is. Is being the number one draw of the show really that big a deal? That we just bypass the status quo to get to our new point? But on occasion, we can call that off for the sake of testing the grounds with a rookie? Jack Swagger and Sheamus were never near the claim of being the top guys of their shows and they got a good time on the limelight. #1 guys to the side. No fuzz to it. "It's just a test run. Now he knows where he needs to improve." But what does that say about a Christian? Or a Dolph Ziggler? "They weren't ready. They aren't big draws yet and maybe never will".

Let me ask. How the fuck do you know?! Brock Lesnar was just given the ball one day and pretty much ran with the whole company. Then he took the ball to UFC and he's still dribbling the thing. A shit, he just served your dinner. Tell me. Did Vince see something in him? Did he see it on Sheamus too? Was it Triple H? Who saw what on Jack Swagger? What does anyone see in Michael Cole? What doesn't Christian have? Does Dolph Ziggler not have that either? I'm I ever gonna stop with the questions? Probably not.

I'll tell you one thing though. Being the top star does warrant the top item. But at the least, we should get other issues to the side first. Contrary to popular belief, the climax is not the end of a story. That would be a the conclusion. And I'm kinda expecting that "happily and ever after" line to be thrown. If a cliffhanger is left with no resolution and there's no sequel either, it's not a cliffhanger. It's an aborted storyline. And it seems to be what most people endorse.
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #2  
Old 05-08-2011, 03:53 AM
blackmetalbuick blackmetalbuick is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 155
blackmetalbuick is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I was thinking of starting a similar thread with all this talk lately about the number one guy needing to be the champion. WWE (or I guess the dirt sheets) are practically contradicting themselves from show to show. When they talk about Raw and the Miz, they talk about how he is still at the top, they still have huge plans for him, he still flies first class, is still one of the main faces of the WWE, etc, yet they don't need to have the belt on him right now. Then when we discuss SmackDown it's "Orton needs the belt because he is at the top!". Why can't we apply what is said about the Miz to Orton, why can't he still be a top guy and not need the belt? He's a much bigger star than the Miz, so if the Miz can remain afloat without the need of a title, Orton certainly can.

This logic is so flawed. Think back to when the WWE was good. Did guys like Austin and the Rock constantly have to have the belt on them? No way, and they were still at the top of the food chain and they were still generally the focal point of the program. The belt did a fair amount of moving around on the roster yet it still had meaning. These days they assume the only way to have the title mean something again is to have the same 3 guys hold it all the time. Maybe that's another belief that needs to be deconstructed along with the main one we're already discussing here; holding the title for a long time, or the same guys always holding it, does not give it value, as we can see happening these last few years. The titles mean less than ever despite only being held by a few guys.

Having your top guy NOT be champion makes for good TV as well. I'm not all wound up about Christian losing, but lets just take that for example. If Christian was still champ, would we really not still treat Orton like a huge star? Regardless of who has the belt, we know Orton is on SmackDown to be the new focal point.

If the rule is automatically top guy = champion then it really ruins all the enjoyment, it will always be stale and predictable. I'd rather watch a non-title mid card match where you don't know who they booked to win instead of watching a title match and knowing just because a certain guy is standing in one corner that he is likely to win. We should have underdog champions, we should have top guys without needing to have gold around their waist.

In the end it's just a continuation of WWE's tendency to insult our intelligence. Clearly we can't understand who might be important unless they have a flashy gold thing hanging off of them. Might as well not have guys compete for the title, just say whoever is at the top of the rankings is the champ since they're already treating it that way.

Maybe the same few guys only draw money because they are the only ones allowed to. They really don't think there's any money in leaving Christian as champion and keeping Edge involved on his behalf? If anyone can come up with catch phrases and pump out some merch, it's Edge and Christian. Not Orton with another viper shirt.

Oh well, we might as well stop caring. Just a few months ago we were seeing belts put on guys like Sheamus and Swagger, and now we're being told only the number 1 guy should have it. But I guess in WWE's defense, when we get new, unexpected champions, everyone complains about that too. So now they're sticking with safe bets.

Last edited by blackmetalbuick : 05-08-2011 at 03:56 AM.
sendpm.gif
  #3  
Old 05-08-2011, 04:15 AM
ipswichicon80 ipswichicon80 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 132
ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

My problem with Orton given the strap? When Christian won it it actually meant something to me.Imagine that,someone wins the title and it actually means something.Then two days later WWE takes it away and is amazed by the backlash?Why are they amazed?Because they are so out of touch with what the fan wants!"we are a global entertainment company" really? No your not your a wrestling company,you want proof? Everything you have tried to do outside of wrestling has absolutely positively sucked!Your ashamed to be associated with wrestling?Wrestling is ashamed of you!
sendpm.gif
  #4  
Old 05-08-2011, 04:44 AM
Azane Azane is offline
Registered User
WWF Hardcore Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,193
Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

I think Christian must be to the IWC what Cena is to the majority of WWE fans.

The reason Orton won the title from Christian is simply that the creative team at WWE decided it. Any reason people on the internet give is simply their speculations and opinions. There's no need for us to make excuses for things happening.
Being the #1 draw to a show is important, because the ENTIRE point of Smackdown or Raw is to build up ratings and eventually PPV buys, having the top guys hold the strap has always lead to bigger PPV buys. More people will watch Orton in a title match than Christian, saying "well the internet likes Christian more" isn't going to change that Orton's probably drawn more in half the time than Christian's drew in his career.
WWE is a business, keeping the majority of their audience happy is more important than a bunch of people who believe one of their favorites should hold gold.
Orton's name value is worth more than Christians; Inside, and outside of wrestling.

WWE is listening to it's fans, and just because some fans speak louder than other's, doesn't mean the quieter ones aren't as important.

Unfortunately to burst the bubble, Christian would of never held a world title if Edge hadn't retired.

Last edited by Azane : 05-08-2011 at 04:46 AM.
sendpm.gif
  #5  
Old 05-08-2011, 04:59 AM
ipswichicon80 ipswichicon80 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 132
ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Unfortunately to burst the bubble, Christian would of never held a world title if Edge hadn't retired.
True. The only correct thing in your post.Christian is over. What in 2 days he didn't sell PPV's and draw money?Like Orton draws money? Listen to the fans react to Christian.Then listen to how they react to Orton.Christian can draw money he just needs a chance.The problem is WWE nowadays is too spineless to take a chance.
sendpm.gif
  #6  
Old 05-08-2011, 05:01 AM
Big Nick Dudley's Avatar
Big Nick Dudley Big Nick Dudley is offline
Nick
WWE European Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,959
Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Nick Dudley is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

Orton is the face of Smackdown, just so that's clear. I think people thought room was being cleared for Christian to take Orton's spot, and that was never going to happen. Even if Christian had held the title for a few months, Smackdown isn't his show. It belongs to Orton. I know how painful that is to take in, but it's true. Just as painful for Orton fans to hear when people talk about Cena and Raw.

Orton is younger than Christian. Also, Orton was chosen by the fans. The fans turned him from a heel to a babyface. That didn't happen with Christian. In the end, fans have a choice to make here. If they choose to boo Orton from here on out, fine with me, I like him more as a heel anyhow. But, that didn't seem to be what happened on Friday night. The fans popped like crazy when the ref counted 1-2-3.

What this whole thing boils down to is Orton haters/Christian fans vs. Orton fans. The follow-up show hasn't even taken place yet, and people (Orton haters) are going absolutely insane. For some posters, this seems to be more about hating Orton than loving Christian. If I had to guess, I think most of them thought Christian could save them from Orton. They thought he could take over the show, be the #1 face, and Orton would fall from a 25-story building. Well, sorry to disappoint, but that's not happening. You people worked yourselves into an unrealistic state of mind, and that isn't Orton's fault. It's not Vince's fault either. You wanted something to happen that wasn't in the big plan.

As an Orton fan, don't you think I wanted to see Orton take Cena's spot on Raw? Of course I did. But, I never went nuts, and actually thought it was going to happen. I'm not a big enough mark to just ignore how important Cena is, and you guys should probably consider the same when talking about Orton (and no Killjoy, this comment wasn't directed at you, or anyone else in particular).

Plus, this thing is far from over. You have no idea what the future holds, so just calm down. Maybe the fans turn on Orton, and rebel in favor of Christian. Doubtful, but anything is possible. Maybe Christian turns heel, takes the belt back, and holds it for six months. Let this play out before drawing a final conclusion, that's all I'm getting at.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iron Sheik
Mayor Bloomberg intelligent Jew for not have the yokozuna size drink.the people need to drink the healthy or become king kong bundy class
sendpm.gif
  #7  
Old 05-08-2011, 05:03 AM
Lucid Lucid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 91
Lucid is looking to come up from OCW...Lucid is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

How many times can Christian "win the big one for Edge"? Doesn't that just make Christian worse in the long run? Oh look, Christian defeated the roster for Edge for the next four years! Awesome. Let's not have him do anything for, yanno...his own motivation or anything. The Edge thing has to end because yanno...he's not gonna wrestle anymore.
Secondly, if you don't enjoy children's television, don't watch children's television.
if you're somehow too smart or sophisticated to enjoy simple things, then get a new hobby deconstructing international politics or something.
No, you don't need your top draw to always carry a title. Cena didn't have it for half a year or whatever and "needed" to have it to tweak the Rock angle. Maybe he even won, because...yanno, he's "The Champ". So what?
Orton "needed" the WHC to say "look, Randy is the star over here on Smackdown."
So what?
Does that mean that those two guys will always be champion? NO.
You know why? They already haven't been champion the whole time.
They are multi-time guys because...they lose. Sure, Orton hasn't lost in a while but you can't really say he'd be the number one guy if he went to Smackdown losing five in a row now can you? As to Cena, he loses as well.
As for establishing new guys, you have the camp of Christian fought for 17 YEARS, but Mark Henry(15 years) blows ass mentality. What do you imagine the guys in the mid-card are trying to do right now? Are you just going to elevate everyone into the main event and make them World Champion...just because? What does that do for anyone? You can't push everyone. It's not rational, and you can't run an industry on what everyone else thinks.
As for boring, I see that a lot. Does anyone actually know what boring means anymore?
Boring means you're not connected and feel like you can't connect. Clearly, if you are bored then you have no interest in what's happening(and you're not posting about it...because...yanno...you're not interested). If you hate it, that's not bored, that's you hating it. That's connected.
The entire lead-in to Extreme Rules no-one had the WHC. That's the statis quo. Randy's build was "I'm gonna get my own show, so I gotta look like I'm capable or else Smackdown goes into the toilet of who-gives-a-fuck" Christian being "the guy" doesn't work on the entirety of his character and build to ER. Christian's build of "I'm a reliable guy winning one for my buddy and just kinda beat another mid-card guy who I beat a few other times in the last two months" doesn't scream number one guy on the show to me at all. Why do you need to establish(put the title on randy) right away? If you don't do that, then a lot of people will be like...ok, why bother bringing Orton over here if "you're just gonna keep him in some other guy's shadow".
Children's television isn't hard to understand. If you're better than watching it, don't.
If you want there to be more adult themes, like say...puppies, or a return to the blood, guts and guys killing themselves on tv then fine. Good for your side. Sex and violence, wooo.
sendpm.gif
  #8  
Old 05-08-2011, 05:03 AM
CitiBoy7's Avatar
CitiBoy7 CitiBoy7 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philly
Age: 26
Posts: 90
CitiBoy7 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Yeah so basically Cena and Orton are gonna hold the title for a long time. I don't understand why you think just because they are the biggest stars they have to cling on to the title so no one else can get a chance. I Understand why Cena is champ because raw and their heels but it was no reason why Orton had to become champ and I know he's replacing Edge but now their just over doing it. The real reason why Orton and Cena or champs is because it's what the kids want because you know if the kids favorites don't win the kids get mad and don't wanna watch anymore which would hurt wwe. Basically where stuck like this and maybe this is telling us wwe just isn't for us anymore.
sendpm.gif
  #9  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:07 AM
ipswichicon80 ipswichicon80 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 132
ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...ipswichicon80 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

#8
Today, 11:03 AM
Lucid
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Rep Power: 1


How many times can Christian "win the big one for Edge"? Doesn't that just make Christian worse in the long run? Oh look, Christian defeated the roster for Edge for the next four years! Awesome. Let's not have him do anything for, yanno...his own motivation or anything. The Edge thing has to end because yanno...he's not gonna wrestle anymore.
Secondly, if you don't enjoy children's television, don't watch children's television.
if you're somehow too smart or sophisticated to enjoy simple things, then get a new hobby deconstructing international politics or something.
No, you don't need your top draw to always carry a title. Cena didn't have it for half a year or whatever and "needed" to have it to tweak the Rock angle. Maybe he even won, because...yanno, he's "The Champ". So what?
Orton "needed" the WHC to say "look, Randy is the star over here on Smackdown."
So what?
Does that mean that those two guys will always be champion? NO.
You know why? They already haven't been champion the whole time.
They are multi-time guys because...they lose. Sure, Orton hasn't lost in a while but you can't really say he'd be the number one guy if he went to Smackdown losing five in a row now can you? As to Cena, he loses as well.
As for establishing new guys, you have the camp of Christian fought for 17 YEARS, but Mark Henry(15 years) blows ass mentality. What do you imagine the guys in the mid-card are trying to do right now? Are you just going to elevate everyone into the main event and make them World Champion...just because? What does that do for anyone? You can't push everyone. It's not rational, and you can't run an industry on what everyone else thinks.
As for boring, I see that a lot. Does anyone actually know what boring means anymore?
Boring means you're not connected and feel like you can't connect. Clearly, if you are bored then you have no interest in what's happening(and you're not posting about it...because...yanno...you're not interested). If you hate it, that's not bored, that's you hating it. That's connected.
The entire lead-in to Extreme Rules no-one had the WHC. That's the statis quo. Randy's build was "I'm gonna get my own show, so I gotta look like I'm capable or else Smackdown goes into the toilet of who-gives-a-fuck" Christian being "the guy" doesn't work on the entirety of his character and build to ER. Christian's build of "I'm a reliable guy winning one for my buddy and just kinda beat another mid-card guy who I beat a few other times in the last two months" doesn't scream number one guy on the show to me at all. Why do you need to establish(put the title on randy) right away? If you don't do that, then a lot of people will be like...ok, why bother bringing Orton over here if "you're just gonna keep him in some other guy's shadow".
Children's television isn't hard to understand. If you're better than watching it, don't.
If you want there to be more adult themes, like say...puppies, or a return to the blood, guts and guys killing themselves on tv then fine. Good for your side. Sex and violence, wooo.

Without a doubt the most arrogant full of shit post I've ever read!
You're comparing Christian to Mark henry? A guy who knows how to work a match,a guy who is over and your comparing him to a guy who despite his 17 years has never been over and has never had one memorable match?Is this "backlash" about the PG rating?No. Yet clearly you think it is. The backlash is because Christian has constantly had good matches since his return and has been over since his return.The fact WWE thinks fans want to see another Orton title run over,good god,a new guy in the ME scene is a sad indictment of how out of touch they are.WWE is making less money and selling less PPV's.Sure Mania bought in over a million buys but why? Because of the Rock and Austin. In the Monday night wars dvd WWE slated WCW for not putting people over and now WWE is making the same mistakes.Wrestlemania drew because of two guys who haven't wrestled in years. We now have Orton and Cena as the two main guys,like it's been for years!It is boring!
sendpm.gif
  #10  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:20 AM
Rayne Rayne is offline
Sally Section
Mr. Money in the Bank
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,162
Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

A climax is not the end of a forum post. That would be the conclusion, where you sum up your argument in the space of a couple of sentences, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has no idea what your point was.

Are you chastising fans for not having faith in the 'alternate' stars, like Sheamus and Jack Swagger? Are you trying to explain how a belt should travel in order to make it worthwhile? I'm not at all sure what the point you're trying to express is; it looks like you just took a bunch of random ideas and threw them together, praying that your audience would be able to extract what you were thinking from it.
sendpm.gif
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices