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Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Who Wins This Match
Edge 52 50.49%
Eddie Guerrero 51 49.51%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
Alright, there are multiple issues I have here - the first among those is the fact that you're lying.

You said Edge has not made anyone submit, outside of McIntyre recently. That is largely incorrect, and had you of done your homework properly you'd know that he made William Regal submit on an episode of Monday Night Raw - which ultimately ended their feud.

Now then, the other issue I have is this..
I don't remember this quite well and I could not find it on Youtube. But assuming this is true...

What is William Regal? A glorified midcard jobber at best. Yet somehow are making a huge deal of this victory over him which is totally unjustified. Almost everyone who has faced William Regal has beaten William Regal. He may have great technical skills but they have never gotten him any significant victories in the WWE.


Quote:
This is a submission match. You JUST stated that neither individual has been largely successful in submission type styles, and that Eddie (in your mind) has only made Mysterio submit. Whereas Edge has actually made the likes of McIntyre and Regal submit - both guys with larger body types than that of Mysterio, and equal to those of Guerrero's.
Yes Edge, the main eventer, made McIntyre a lower midcarder submit. I am still not sold on Regal till you show video evidence but I am guessing that it happened sometime in 2002. At that point Edge was very hot and was even defeating the likes of Kurt Angle and Regal as I have already mentioned is just another midcard jobber.

Eddie was a midcarder when he made Mysterio, another midcarder submit. Hell I'll argue that Mysterio at that point( mid 2003) was a bigger star than either McIntyre or Regal has ever been. So Eddie has made the bigger star submit

Quote:
So, why should Eddie win - when the only type of guy he can force into a submissive state is that of a cruiserweight? Edge is a heavyweight, in every shape of the term. Edge isn't small, he isn't weak, and he can not be forced down by Eddie.

On the other hand, Edge has forced Regal and McIntyre both to submit. Both are of similar size and weight to Eddie.
Mysterio is small but in no sense of the word is he weak. Very few people have got a submission victory over Mysterio and despite his size Mysterio has a better win/ loss record against most guys. So claiming that Eddie made some weakling submit is totally false.

However if you are talking about weaklings, let us talk about McIntyre and Regal: two guys who have never mattered an iota within the WWE. That is the type of guys Edge has forced into submission( according to you)


Quote:
If you're going to base your keys to victory off nothing more than saying someone should win, because they have submission holds within their moveset - you should stop to question why almost none of them (outside of one - on a cruiserweight, according to you) have worked when he's applied them. Perhaps it's because he was a huge failure at forcing a submission out of people??

You're absolutely correct in understanding that Edge doesn't use submission based wrestling. Why? Because he has never had to. He has enough power to weaken his opponents that should he need a submission, he only needs one. Not several smaller versions of holds that OTHERS have made famous - to soften his opponents up for something else entirely.
Yes but you cannot deny that if you have a lot of submission moves in your arsenal they can be used to repeatedly weaken a body part and ultimately setup the big submission move that Eddie has. What will Edge do? Just keep trying to lock in the Edgecator from the first moment, a move that Eddie will be well prepared for?

Eddie can surprise Edge by busting out moves that Edge might not expect out of Eddie and he may not be able to counter it. Edge does not hold that element of surprise over Eddie.

Quote:
I pointed out one extra guy that's submitted to Edge, than you have that's done the same to Guerrero. If anything, that makes Edge more of a master of forcing submissions out of guys than Eddie.
Yes well making two guys submit does not make him a master at submission wrestling. Especially if both guys are weaklings like Regal and McIntyre.

Quote:
When the hell did they have a ladder match?! As I recall, they had two regular matches, and an anything goes match that largely focused on a ladder being involved. Nothing else.

Edge and Eddie split the single's victories, (Edge first, then Eddie second) and Edge won the anything goes/ladder involved final match between them.

Edge didn't lose a ladder match to Guerrero, and until you find me proof of this mysterious contest I'm going to continue saying you're coming up with largely inaccurate thoughts and boldly made lies.
Meh, looks like I got confused with the NO DQ match. Anyhow as you can see both guys are equally matched at singles matches. The NODQ match is Edge's yard and that is why he got a victory. A submission match is well again Eddie's domain due to his background. There is no reason why Eddie cannot force a victory in that match.


Quote:
1. Why does this matter, when Edge holds more victories over Eddie himself.
A 2-1 advantage when the WWE was pushing Edge hard and Eddie had just returned from rehab. If anyone was in their prime, it was Edge. Yet they traded victories and Edge only won because the match type suited him.

And niether guy won any match by submission. So why is this coming up for discussion anyway?

Quote:
3. Edge may not have any victories over Malenko, but the same can be said in return of Malenko over Edge. Why? Because they merely never met when they were in the business together. Eddie holds victories over the guy, because they were in the same Company for roughly 5 years. Edge and Malenko were only in the same Company for 2, before Malenko retired.
Has Eddie ever faced William Regal? Yet you are making it a point to mention Edge's victories over Regal, stating that Edge has indeed defeated a technically proficient superstar.( who never mattered an iota in the WWE though.)

Eddie has defeated an even more technically proficient star and that too in the best phases of his career in WCW.
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  #32  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:41 AM
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Neither was a great submission wrestler but both know submissions and have gotten victories in that fashion. I'm basically throwing the gimmick out because it favors neither man. With that out of the way I look at the careers of both superstars. Edge has been more successful then Eddie at all levels. From the tag team ranks, to the mid card, to the main event. Edge has been a consistent main eventer for over 5 years while Eddie was a career mid carder who spent about a year and a half around the main event. Edge is a multiple time world champion while Eddie was a one time world champ. You can say Eddie's career ended prematurely but let's not forget that he was 38 when he died. He may have gotten one or two more reigns but nothing compared to what Edge has done. Both superstars are overrated but the victory in this match goes to Edge.

Winner: Edge
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  #33  
Old 03-17-2011, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
I don't remember this quite well and I could not find it on Youtube. But assuming this is true...
Youtube does not hold video of it; I have searched under every term to try and find it. Regardless, the following link is directed to a website that holds reviews of shows. Follow this link, and read the card - you'll find the match, and it'll explain Edge wins by submission.

http://www.wrestleview.com/results/raw/61.shtml

Now THAT - is how you prove shit is real, son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
What is William Regal? A glorified midcard jobber at best. Yet somehow are making a huge deal of this victory over him which is totally unjustified. Almost everyone who has faced William Regal has beaten William Regal. He may have great technical skills but they have never gotten him any significant victories in the WWE.
I just went all out to find you any type of proof that it was real, and you just go one step further and shit all over it. Why I outta...

Anyways, Regal has defeated some big names, including; Ric Flair, Sting & Chris Benoit. Just because the guy was a career mid-carder in WWE does not mean he's weak, or bad in any way. He was merely a victim of circumstance.

As for victories in the WWE - he's a multiple time Intercontinental Champion, multi-time European Champion, multi-time Tag team Champion and a 2008 King of the Ring. The guy may not have won a World Championship, but he has certainly done his fair share to be remembered. And this is just his WWF/E stuff, not including his WCW stint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Yes Edge, the main eventer, made McIntyre a lower midcarder submit. I am still not sold on Regal till you show video evidence but I am guessing that it happened sometime in 2002. At that point Edge was very hot and was even defeating the likes of Kurt Angle and Regal as I have already mentioned is just another midcard jobber.
This is kinda the entire point I was trying to make. Edge, the mid-carder in 2002, defeated (soundly) Kurt Angle - the guy who had been Main Eventing, and even won a Heavyweight Championship before this point - and later in the same year, defeated Hulk Hogan. Yet here is this mid-card version of Edge, who held his own against a very tough technical wrestler in Angle.

If he can hold his own as a mid-carder, against the prime version of Kurt Angle. I don't give a shit what version of Guerrero you put in the ring against Edge - he'll lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Eddie was a midcarder when he made Mysterio, another midcarder submit. Hell I'll argue that Mysterio at that point( mid 2003) was a bigger star than either McIntyre or Regal has ever been. So Eddie has made the bigger star submit
You're absolutely right, Eddie made the guy more prone to submitting, submit. Regal rarely quit, and McIntyre also hasn't been known as someone who easily quits - but Rey, the better star who's tapped out quite often, gave up to Eddie. Oh yeah, big difference there, huh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Mysterio is small but in no sense of the word is he weak. Very few people have got a submission victory over Mysterio and despite his size Mysterio has a better win/ loss record against most guys. So claiming that Eddie made some weakling submit is totally false.
Tell me you're kidding.

1. Dean Malenko
2. Ultimo Dragon
3. Chris Jericho
4. Kurt Angle
5. Chris Benoit

That is just a top 5 list of names that have had several matches with Rey Mysterio, all of which picked up multiple victories over constantly making Rey tap out on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
However if you are talking about weaklings, let us talk about McIntyre and Regal: two guys who have never mattered an iota within the WWE. That is the type of guys Edge has forced into submission( according to you)
First, you're correct - according to me, by way of something I like to call "the truth", Edge has made both of those individuals tap out/quit.

Second, you're correct in understanding Regal and McIntyre haven't meant hardly anything to the Company. But that isn't to say they haven't meant anything to the business, or the wrestling industry.

Regal is world famous, and has accomplished several goals/won many titles, including top ones within the WWE. (as I named off earlier)

McIntyre is still by all accounts at the beginning of his career. What is this, his 2nd year? And he's already been an Intercontinental Champion, a Tag team Champion and hand picked by Mr. McMahon. Where was Eddie in his 2nd year in the business?? Wrestling in a dim lit bingo hall, then moving on to WCW where he lost a lot in the beginning. (just like McIntyre, only without any title victories until moving into his 3rd year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Yes but you cannot deny that if you have a lot of submission moves in your arsenal they can be used to repeatedly weaken a body part and ultimately setup the big submission move that Eddie has. What will Edge do? Just keep trying to lock in the Edgecator from the first moment, a move that Eddie will be well prepared for?
Why does Edge have to focus on constantly trying to lock in one submission move? As I've stated before, look at how easily wrestlers can adapt to something when you think they've got nothing.

Edge didn't know what to do in ladder matches his first try, but he quickly learned and now look at him. He's one of the best at that style. There is absolutely NO reason to think Edge wouldn't go into this match with a couple extra submissions in his back pocket to pull out.

Furthermore, you don't lock in constant submissions to set-up other submissions. You weaken body parts by wrestling, and brawling. Something Edge can do, with a lack of submission knowledge. It won't take a dozen plus submission holds to win this match. It won't even take 5+, all it'll take is one. One that makes your opponent quit - and Edge has a hold that can do that. (as does Guerrero)

Edge won't constantly look to lock in the same submission every other hold. He'll look to weaken the legs, and any other body part he can get his hands on and go from there. Edge is smart inside the ring, he knows how to look for new openings and take advantage of situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Eddie can surprise Edge by busting out moves that Edge might not expect out of Eddie and he may not be able to counter it. Edge does not hold that element of surprise over Eddie.
The same exact thing could be said in reverse for Edge, against Eddie. I fail to see the point here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Yes well making two guys submit does not make him a master at submission wrestling. Especially if both guys are weaklings like Regal and McIntyre.
And making one guy submit that's accomplished more than either of those two guys, does not give Guerrero a vast knowledge and understanding of submission matches, either. Next..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Meh, looks like I got confused with the NO DQ match. Anyhow as you can see both guys are equally matched at singles matches. The NODQ match is Edge's yard and that is why he got a victory. A submission match is well again Eddie's domain due to his background. There is no reason why Eddie cannot force a victory in that match.
What fricken background?! The whole ONE submission victory he's had in his entire career? Holy crap, move aside everyone - the guy who's won a single match by submission is about to master the whole damn thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
A 2-1 advantage when the WWE was pushing Edge hard and Eddie had just returned from rehab. If anyone was in their prime, it was Edge. Yet they traded victories and Edge only won because the match type suited him.
Well, it isn't my fault the guy you're trying to push has a drug problem and can't keep clean. Eddie was recieving multiple chances at pushes and kept screwing them up. Either by injury, or by drug addiction. That isn't mine, nor Edge's, fault.

A win is a win, and Edge has 2 of them. You can continue running on about all the excuses you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
And niether guy won any match by submission. So why is this coming up for discussion anyway?
Because when they matched up, Edge on two different times (out of 3) got the better of Guerrero. That means he withstood everything Guerrero had to give him, including submission based moves, and continued to come out on top.

Not once did Edge even HAVE that submission move in his moveset when they fought, either. So there isn't a solid understanding that Eddie wouldn't of tapped to it. Eddie didn't use the Lasso then, but he had all of the other submission moves you (and others) have ran on about - and Edge didn't quit to any of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rattlesnake4eva View Post
Has Eddie ever faced William Regal? Yet you are making it a point to mention Edge's victories over Regal, stating that Edge has indeed defeated a technically proficient superstar.( who never mattered an iota in the WWE though.)

Eddie has defeated an even more technically proficient star and that too in the best phases of his career in WCW.
1. Yes, Eddie Guerrero has faced William Regal. Eddie has gotten pinfall victories over him, but no submission. As for why I continued to bring up the Regal fact - it's because it reflects on Edge winning via submission; more so against a guy you neglected to include, in your attempt to make Edge look even weaker in a submission based match.

2. Edge has defeated just as many big named stars as Eddie. The difference is Edge has defeated many more. (Undertaker, John Cena, Triple H) Eddie has faced them, but not beaten them.

So now what?

(PS: I feel the need to throw this in. It really doesn't make a difference who wins, because either man will be fed to Hulk Hogan in the next round. Even though I feel Edge is the better of the two - between he and Guerrero, no one on this forum in their right mind is going to vote against Hogan, regardless of who he faces.)
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  #34  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:50 AM
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So I was watching the Edge DVD compilation earlier today and I saw a couple of things that interested me. There are 2 matches with him against Kurt Angle (who is superior to Eddie in every way, don't kid yourself) and 2 things caught my eye.

The first was in a match from Judgment Day in 2002. Edge won it clean by pinfall but that's not what caught my eye. Afterwards when Edge was attempting to cut Angle's hair, he successfully put Angle to sleep with a Sleeper Hold long enough to shave his head. If he can put out Angle, he could put out Eddie.

The second one was during the Cage match between Kurt and Edge. During this match, Edge put on an Ankle Lock perfectly. He didn't win with it, but I'm just saying this to show that despite what some are saying, Edge isn't a complete retard who doesn't understand how to hook in submission moves.

Then there's the whole thing with Edge being way more successful and relevant than Eddie. Pesky thoughts.

Vote Edge.
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PsychoBlack View Post
Eddie wins this. He knows how to focus his attack on one part of the body to better weaken it for the submission. Edge is a great worker but does not have the submission prowess or the patience to make Eddie tap
What are you talking about here? I guess you've looked at Eddy with rose colored glsses since he passed, and screw the rest, eh? Edge ONLY has the Edge-O-Matic, the Sharpshooter, the Sleeper, and he's even used the Ankle Lock on occsion. What's more, he's proved himself to be vicious when applying submissions. He's much more then a spear and the Impaler DDT, which is obviously how you view him.

The thing is this. Eddie was a great technician. But he didn't and doesn't have the array of submission holds that Edge does and has used in the past. Edge has shown the ability to not only use a wide variety of submission holds, but he's also shown the ability to use others submission holds againstthem. All the Latino Heat in the World isn't going to help Eddie here. Edge has beaten names that Eddie simply hasn't beaten, and they were for World Titles to boot. Last time I checked, Edge is an 11 time World Chmio, Eddie won one. Edge has beaten the likes of Undertaker, Batista, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, John Cena, and HHH, amongst others. While Eddie beat Lesnar, it was basically due to Goldberg. Edge has won more and beaten better.

This should be a great match, make no mistake about it. But to say that Edge has "no patience" is incredibly shortsighted. If anything, it was Eddie who lost his temper at times and lost his focus, which is what I see happening here. Edge applies the Sleeper to start, and Eddie barely keeps from fading. Edge escapes the Lasso by getting to the ropes, and Eddie pounds the mat in frustration. Edge capitlizes and locks in the Sharpshooter, and maybe, just maybe, Eddie gets to the ropes here. But by this time, he's spent, frustrated, and makes a mistake. He attempts the three amigos, but Edge slips out of the third, springs off the ropes, and spears Eddie. Eddie's easy prey for the Edge-O-Matic, and believe me, he's not getting out of this one. Edge wins via submission at the 17 minute mark.

Vote Edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamler View Post
I see a pretty much even match throughout, but Edge locking in the Edgucator in the closing seconds to get the last submission before the time expires.
Hamler' right, as usual. He's got one of the best minds for wrestling on this site. I should have just skipped posting, read his, and voted. Simple as that.
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