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  #11  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Yes, he was.

He beat the Rock for the WCW title at No Mercy on 21 October 2001 when he was still a face.



It was losing the title back to the Rock which set off his heel turn at Survivor Series and eventual winning of the Undisputed title at Vengeance.
Damn it. I forgot all about that championship victory and so did Chris, lol.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by @smarkmouth View Post
I'll go as far to concede a grey area here. Jericho was well on the way to turning heel. It was a slow turn, as he exhibited jealousy towards the Rock. It may be debatable whether he was a heel or not, but I can't call that stage of his run to be a babyface.
Rivalry with the Rock =/= heel turn.

The real dispute began after the title change when they teamed up, won and lost the tag titles.

By your reckoning, the Rock was not a babyface in that period as he was acting similarly dickish to Jericho.

They were both faces right up until Jericho hit Rock with the Breakdown at Survivor Series.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:51 AM
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Huh, I guess you're right. I coulda sworn. I'm calling Mandela effect.
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2018, 12:14 PM
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I'd say he was more tweeter than face or heel when he first won the wcw title.
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Vageena Hertz View Post
I'd say he was more tweeter than face or heel when he first won the wcw title.
If you consider that Jericho was not a face at the time of No Mercy 2001, then he has never been a face throughout his entire WWF/E run. He was the same insulting, Stephanie-bashing (who was cheering against Y2J at No Mercy) smart-alec he always had been.

The first half of the feud was about Jericho being unable to win the big one. Then he won the WCW title, but still did not receive much respect from the Rock; that was the real catalyst for the heel turn at Survivor Series. It was after the title change ad particularly when they lost the tag titles that Jericho's complaints over the Rock's treatment of him turned to frustration and hate.

The plan for Jericho to turn heel was likely in place before No Mercy but he was still a cheered face when he won the title, even when he used a Stephanie-introduced chair to beat the Rock. JR announced like Y2J was still a face - "Chris Jericho has damn sure won the big one!" while Heyman talked about how terrible this was for Stephanie.
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  #16  
Old 02-10-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz View Post
Most people were none to pleased that Roman and Taker went on last.
For me, Taker's last match was fine as the main event. If anyone is worthy of that it is taker. It's also part of the reason that Taker should not wrestle this year.
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  #17  
Old 02-10-2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by A11oftheLights View Post
For me, Taker's last match was fine as the main event. If anyone is worthy of that it is taker. It's also part of the reason that Taker should not wrestle this year.
This is out of topic, but I recently rewatched that match. Taker couldn't get Roman up for the Last Ride.

Plus Roman couldn't get Taker up for a tombstone, but I also blame Taker not being flexible enough to give enough momentum to his body, in order to get in position.

The match was horrible and botch-full. Not something we were used to by Taker. His match with Shane at WM 32 was also pretty bad, bad you couldn't really tell due to the hype involving that match and the carnage of the Hell In A Cell.

It's quite surreal, since Taker's bouts with Lesnar at Summerslam and Hell In A Cell some months prior, were pretty good.
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