WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > The WrestleZone Forum Archives > The Interactive (Tournament) Archives > Tournaments Archive > Wrestlezone Tag Tournament > 4th Tag Team Tournament (2014) > Los Angeles Region
Register FAQForum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Who Wins This Matchup?
Hart Foundation 14 31.82%
Steiner Brothers 30 68.18%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-21-2014, 04:54 PM
Bythedockofthebay's Avatar
Bythedockofthebay Bythedockofthebay is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 405
Bythedockofthebay is looking to come up from OCW...Bythedockofthebay is looking to come up from OCW...Bythedockofthebay is looking to come up from OCW...Bythedockofthebay is looking to come up from OCW...Bythedockofthebay is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

If you voted for the hart foundation here, (or in previous rounds for that matter) you have to be a huge fan of them. They weren't close to Tully and Arn, Road Warriors, Steiner Brothers, or even Demolition. They are the second most overrated team even imo. Right behind the British Bulldogs. So this one is easy to call for me, Steiner's in a mauling, that isn't even close. Frankensteiner game over.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-21-2014, 05:41 PM
justtxyank justtxyank is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 580
justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Put me in the camp that sees this as a trucking. Hart Foundation were a good team no doubt, but they were not the Steiner Brothers.

Pretty disappointing finals honestly. Steiners would have been much better matching up with Miracle Violence Connection, The Road Warriors, heck, even the original Minnesota Wrecking Crew or Midnight Express.

Hart Foundation were a dominant mid card team. Steiners were a main event team. There is a big difference.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-21-2014, 06:21 PM
JoeyJoeJoe JoeyJoeJoe is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 945
JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...JoeyJoeJoe worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
Put me in the camp that sees this as a trucking. Hart Foundation were a good team no doubt, but they were not the Steiner Brothers.

Pretty disappointing finals honestly. Steiners would have been much better matching up with Miracle Violence Connection, The Road Warriors, heck, even the original Minnesota Wrecking Crew or Midnight Express.

Hart Foundation were a dominant mid card team. Steiners were a main event team. There is a big difference.
The Harts were a mid card team only because of where they were at. There were NO main event teams in the WWF, and that was by design. Consequentially, the Steiners and the Road Warriors were never a main event team in the WWF either, and the Midnights, had they made it to the WWF, wouldn't have been either.

I'm just saying that I think it would've been very likely that the Hart Foundation would've been main eventers in the NWA. If a team like the Rock N' Roll Express were main eventers, the Harts definitely would've been.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-22-2014, 07:31 AM
MrMojoRisin MrMojoRisin is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 965
MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
Well thats all she wrote. You can say that statement about The Steiners, but not The Hart Foundation. What is better? Being the biggest fish in a stock pond or the biggest fish in the ocean?
I find it interesting how you keep only picking out a small bit of what I say, and try to make your argument around that... while ignoring everything else. Whatever though.

Were the Hart Foundation ever considered the 'best in the world' at any point? Not really. In fairness though, when the Hart Foundation were together it was probably the golden age of tag team wrestling, whereas the Steiners only got together at the tail end of that time.

During 1989 and 1990, when both teams were competing together at the same time (in different companies unfortunately)... I wouldn't say that the Steiners were the best in the world either. You'd have to give that honor to either the Road Warriors or Demolition, and truthfully, that should have been your finals here. But of course too many people had to vote against the Road Warriors to be contrary, and due to Bill Eadie's disputes with Vince McMahon, people who weren't fans back then haven't been educated on exactly how great Demolition was. So we don't get that matchup.

By the time the Steiners were the best in the World, tag team wrestling had changed pretty quickly, and a lot of the great teams had split and been replaced with makeshift duos. The formula had gone from having a strong tag division to mining tag teams for new singles stars. Blame that on the WWF, and the fact that at this point in the business, companies like WCW were beginning to be more concerned with following the WWF model than creating their own. Just as another poster here said, the WWF didn't use tag teams as the 'main event' unlike JCP, who did promote their teams at the top of the card. Once Turner bought JCP and brought in guys like Jim Herd to run it, that began to change, tag teams in WCW weren't emphasised like before, and thus the quality of them dropped drastically.

So saying that they were the best in the world after 1991 doesn't hold as much weight unfortunately. There just weren't enough good teams left at their peak to make a case for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
Vince has always pushed his company as an island unto itself & it works for what he aims to accomplish. Problem is that the buck does not stop there & other things happen outside of his empire. During their top runs in WWF, there were a few teams outside Vince's grasp that were better than Anvil\Bret. They were the top team in WWF, but not the world. During Rick\Scott's major run, they were the top team & technically never lost 2 of their 3 belts held that time.
Heh, you loved that US to World booking didn't you? It would have been nice if you'd addressed the points I made about that earlier, then just going back to it though. Who, realistically would you have had the Steiners drop the US titles to at that point? I can't think of one team you could have done it with without making the Steiners look weak, and they just couldn't afford to do that at that time. I think the bigger question would be why had the Steiners been de-pushed slightly down to the US titles for this to even be a point? They were already established, had previously been World champs, and were extremely over. The only thing I can think of is they were put down to the US tag level specifically because WCW wanted to run the unbeatable dual champ angle (and may have even worked a deal with NJPW to get them the IWGP belts at this point to further the angle, since they were promoting that fact on TV). That's great booking btw, but it's also the type of booking that the WWF never did for tag teams. Keep in mind a great point brought up by another poster. Tag teams were all booked as mid card acts in the WWF. This included the Steiner Brothers when they went to the WWF. At no point was the best tag team in the world ever booked stronger than the Hart Foundation, or any other tag team had been booked in years past. In fact, I'd say that there were quite a few tag teams in the WWF's past such as the Hart Foundation that got booked better than the Steiners.

It makes you wonder how those WWF tag teams would have faired in JCP? I've got a feeling that in more than a few cases... it would have been extremely well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
Again, Bret\Anvil deserve praise for what they did, but people put more stock in to their run because of what Bret accomplished later. This is when Rick\Scott were in their prime. That is a dangerous thing for Anvil & pre-Hitman Hart to contend with. It would be an awesome battle, but they just wouldn't beat the Steiner Brothers in this match.
I'm sure there are people who do put more stock into what the Harts did because of what Bret went on to do in singles. I'm sure there's also many who take away from what the Harts did because of that too. Then there's those of us who actually grew up watching both of these teams and don't have to rely on Youtube for our knowledge of wrestling history. Whenever I watched a show with the Hart Foundation on it, their match was almost always the best one of the night. That says a lot right there. Had neither man ever wrestled another match after the team broke up, they would still be remembered as one of the best ever.

From all appearances, the Hart Foundation won't win this, and that's fine. The Steiners were an amazing team in their own right, and they are deserving winners. But just from reading comments throughout this tournament, even being in the finals, I don't think the Harts get the respect that they deserve, and that's just wrong.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-23-2014, 04:08 PM
nightmare's Avatar
nightmare nightmare is offline
...7, 8, Better stay up late...
Million Dollar Champion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wolfram & Hart
Posts: 1,282
nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin View Post
I find it interesting how you keep only picking out a small bit of what I say, and try to make your argument around that... while ignoring everything else. Whatever though.

Why would I bother breaking down every bit of what you say? It's clear that you have a preference & that is fine, but I wont waste my time trying to overcome your fapping of things pink & black related. The main selling points have been shown & not much else needs to be said. Bret\Anvil may have been the best WWF had to offer during that time (& honestly even that is disputed due to who else was around), but they were a notch below The Steiners in the grand scheme of things.


This isnt a 'Who did good in WWF & may have been good elsewhere tournament'. All things must be taken in to account & a solid team with 2 WWF titles just does not cut the mustard against a team who traveled the world, kicking ass & taking gold. At any given point a promoter can decide to make a team or push an established team to gold. Using the argument that 'Well they held the belts because there was no-one good" is silly because all it shows is that clearly The Steiners were the best of that time & promoters knew it. If they were not as good as they were, people would have no problem buying the fact that another team could beat them, even an older team snagging the gold from the younger guys. Fact is, that they were that good & have the cred\gold to back it up.


Bret\Anvil were at the top in WWF, but despite what Vince wants us to think- the wrestling world is much bigger than his Connecticut based empire. The Hart Foundation is outmatched here. That includes in the ring & with their accomplishments.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-23-2014, 04:58 PM
MrMojoRisin MrMojoRisin is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 965
MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...MrMojoRisin worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
Why would I bother breaking down every bit of what you say? It's clear that you have a preference & that is fine, but I wont waste my time trying to overcome your fapping of things pink & black related.
Ok then. The only thing negative I say to you is how you're cherry picking stuff I say to make your argument, and that's what you respond with? Well if that's how you want it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
The main selling points have been shown & not much else needs to be said. Bret\Anvil may have been the best WWF had to offer during that time (& honestly even that is disputed due to who else was around), but they were a notch below The Steiners in the grand scheme of things.
Why? Because WCW had the Steiners go from the US titles to the World titles without dropping the titles first? Because they didn't really have any other viable options at the time (unless they wanted to go with the Master Blasters?)

There is a saying that a champion is only as good as his challengers. The Steiners were a great tag team. I've never disputed that. But during their peak period (the one you've been fapping over), their competition was dogshit. The entire time the Hart Foundation was together though, including during the year and a half they spent as champions... the WWF always had a strong tag team division. Please, feel free to point out where they didn't.

Of course the promoters went with the Steiners. Who else would they have gone with? Honestly, it would have meant more if there were other teams worthy and capable of holding down that top spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
This isnt a 'Who did good in WWF & may have been good elsewhere tournament'. All things must be taken in to account & a solid team with 2 WWF titles just does not cut the mustard against a team who traveled the world, kicking ass & taking gold.
The funny thing when you say this... is how in the hell are you the one actually taking everything into account?

The Harts didn't 'travel the world, kicked ass and took gold' because the company they worked for wouldn't allow it. You don't take that into account.

The Steiners at their absolute peak which you're basing your argument on, benefited from the fact that their promoters didn't have anyone else to turn to. The Hart's got chosen twice to carry the gold despite the fact that their promoters had many viable options to go with instead. You don't take that into account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
At any given point a promoter can decide to make a team or push an established team to gold. Using the argument that 'Well they held the belts because there was no-one good" is silly because all it shows is that clearly The Steiners were the best of that time & promoters knew it. If they were not as good as they were, people would have no problem buying the fact that another team could beat them, even an older team snagging the gold from the younger guys. Fact is, that they were that good & have the cred\gold to back it up.
Of course they went with the Steiners because they were the best they had at that time. Where the hell have I disputed that? My point, which is clearly going over your head, is that it wasn't like they had a list of qualified teams and chose the Steiners from it. When the Steiners went from the US to World titles, they didn't have anyone else. If they didn't have the Steiners at that time, their champions could have easily been Arn Anderson and the Angel of Death (actually one of the combos that the Steiners defended against).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
Bret\Anvil were at the top in WWF, but despite what Vince wants us to think- the wrestling world is much bigger than his Connecticut based empire. The Hart Foundation is outmatched here. That includes in the ring & with their accomplishments.
Yeah I see where all this is coming from. Typical.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-23-2014, 09:05 PM
nightmare's Avatar
nightmare nightmare is offline
...7, 8, Better stay up late...
Million Dollar Champion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wolfram & Hart
Posts: 1,282
nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...nightmare is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Well lets just go ahead and cherry pick an important brick from your word fort.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin View Post
There is a saying that a champion is only as good as his challengers. The Steiners were a great tag team. I've never disputed that. But during their peak period (the one you've been fapping over), their competition was dogshit. The entire time the Hart Foundation was together though, including during the year and a half they spent as champions... the WWF always had a strong tag team division. Please, feel free to point out where they didn't.

Of course the promoters went with the Steiners. Who else would they have gone with? Honestly, it would have meant more if there were other teams worthy and capable of holding down that top spot.



Im sorry, but are you retarded? Lack of quality teams? Competition? Did all of the teams that were around at that time not meet your standards or did they all just retire while the Steiners were around? Lets just go ahead and list some of these teams from 89-94 that were around & or beaten by The Steiners that you seem to want people to believe are 'dogshit competition'...


Doom, Freebirds, Road Warriors, Varsity Club, Enforcers, 4 Horsemen, Luger\Windham, Sting\Luger, Williams\Gordy, Hase\Sasaki, Midnight Express, Rock 'n' Roll Express, Nasty Boys, Saito\Muta, Money Inc., Headshrinkers


Those are some great teams & surely considered top caliber competition. You have acted like Rick\Scott spent their entire career beating jobbers. The Steiners have beaten some of the best tag teams in each promotion they were in. Sure Bret\Anvil beat some great teams as well, but when comparing resumes, The Steiners just simply have the better career. Blame it on WWF's contract restrictions, wishful thinking or what have you. If Bret\Anvil traveled around, they may just have beaten more teams- but we will never know. What we do know is that Rick\Scott did. They are the better team who accomplished more during their time together & deserve to win this tournament over The Hart Foundation.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-24-2014, 10:22 AM
FitFinlay4Life's Avatar
FitFinlay4Life FitFinlay4Life is offline
What's the craic?
WWE European Champion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern Ireland
Age: 44
Posts: 1,908
FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...FitFinlay4Life is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin View Post
One poster mentioned that the Hart Foundation was a short lived team whereas the Steiners weren't? wrestlingdata.com shows that the Hart Foundation fought 864 matches together between 1980 and 1997. The Steiner Brothers fought 879 matches together between 1989 and 2014. Pretty even right there, although in both cases, there's long stretches where they weren't really a team and just had the odd match together. Their times as a full time tag team?
I'm a big fan of wrestlingdata.com myself and I have to turn this round for something you've declined to add...

Hart Foundation
w: 447 (57.09%)
d: 66 (8.43%)
l: 270 (34.48%)

Steiner Brothers
w: 746 (85.65%)
d: 48 (5.51%)
l: 77 (8.84%)

So, to use this site for arguments sake - Rick and Scott win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin View Post
Why? Because WCW had the Steiners go from the US titles to the World titles without dropping the titles first? Because they didn't really have any other viable options at the time (unless they wanted to go with the Master Blasters?)

There is a saying that a champion is only as good as his challengers. The Steiners were a great tag team. I've never disputed that. But during their peak period (the one you've been fapping over), their competition was dogshit. The entire time the Hart Foundation was together though, including during the year and a half they spent as champions... the WWF always had a strong tag team division. Please, feel free to point out where they didn't.

Of course the promoters went with the Steiners. Who else would they have gone with? Honestly, it would have meant more if there were other teams worthy and capable of holding down that top spot.
Sorry, but this does not hold up - please tell me how this was a weak period? Doom, R'n'R Express, Midnight Express, Horsemen, Fabulous Freebirds, Samoan Swat Team and Sting & Luger were all in effect...
__________________

Last edited by FitFinlay4Life : 10-24-2014 at 10:34 AM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-24-2014, 12:19 PM
justtxyank justtxyank is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 580
justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...justtxyank is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightmare View Post
Im sorry, but are you retarded? Lack of quality teams? Competition? Did all of the teams that were around at that time not meet your standards or did they all just retire while the Steiners were around? Lets just go ahead and list some of these teams from 89-94 that were around & or beaten by The Steiners that you seem to want people to believe are 'dogshit competition'...


Doom, Freebirds, Road Warriors, Varsity Club, Enforcers, 4 Horsemen, Luger\Windham, Sting\Luger, Williams\Gordy, Hase\Sasaki, Midnight Express, Rock 'n' Roll Express, Nasty Boys, Saito\Muta, Money Inc., Headshrinkers
Well, the Freebirds were junk by the time The Steiners started tagging together and the RnR Express was basically done, however, the rest of your list is good.

List of some teams The Steiners did battle with:
Amazing French Canadians (Quebecers)
Outsiders
Harlem Heat (for years!)
Dick Slater / Bunkhouse Buck (Good team, underrated)
Miracle Violence Connection
Sting/Luger
Roadwarriors
Nasty Boys (prime and late career)
Masahiro Chono / Great Muta
Chono/Tenzan
High Voltage
Arn Anderson / Bobby Eaton
Arn Anderson / Larry Zbyzsko
Doom
Headshrinkers
Midnight Express (still relevant version)
Money Inc
Heavenly Bodies
Public Enemy (before they were turned into jobbers)
Blue Bloods (with Eaton)
Blue Bloods (with Dave Taylor)
Faces of Fear

None of that is to say the Hart Foundation didn't wrestle good teams, but the idea that the Steiners faced trash is a joke. Sure, the WWF hated tag teams and treated them as midcarders or worse, but everywhere else the Steiners worked treated tag team wrestling with respect. And in those companies that cared about tag team wrestling, The Steiners were always on top.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-24-2014, 10:12 PM
obamartins obamartins is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 175
obamartins is looking to come up from OCW...obamartins is looking to come up from OCW...obamartins is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Speaking of tag teams Steiner Brothers faced...

Steiner Brothers vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Big Van Vader (WCW Tag Team Champions vs. IWGP Tag Team Champions)

sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices