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  #1  
Old 05-26-2018, 12:21 PM
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Default Is WWE too disjointed and too relaxed? Can it be improved?

First of all, WWE has a ton of pots on the stove. They have 3 hour Raw, 2 hour SmackDown, 1 hour 205 Live, 1 hour NXT and all sorts of other segments or shows on their YouTube channel or Network. So naturally, there is going to be some level of disjointedness going on.

But, my issue isn't that each of those shows is disjointed from the rest, it's that within EACH show the events of that show are often very disjointed or too relaxed.

Basically, you could take a Monday Raw and each segment might as well be pre-taped in separate cities. There's virtually NO intertwined storylines and overlapping themes that connect more than just a few performers together. I know that you can't have complete chaos with performers showing up battling each other completely randomly just for the sake of it ... but hell, at this point, that would be a lot more interesting than the slow boiling, mostly dull excuses for storylines that are happening these days in WWE for the most part.

There are some slight exceptions, but that's also what I mean about too relaxed. Too many feuds are pretty relaxed and lack urgency and intensity.

And let me just focus on Raw and SmackDown for the time being. (Sidebar: Raw being 3 hours is just too long, for me, it only encourages less LIVE viewers and more people, if they even care to, quickly catching the highlights of the show the next day or show online.)


Now, TV has changed because media has changed and there's so much content to watch. But seems to me that the shows that tend to be the most compelling are the ones that have intensity and also brooding evil characters that you can't wait to see what happens next for when they finally get some revenge.


It's funny, because Vince McMahon himself, years ago, gave an interview and talked about what makes WWE interesting and he said something along the lines of "when making a feud or a match you have to consider: Why are these guys fighting? What are the stakes? And why should I (the viewer) care?"

And I feel like Vince has almost lost that vision. Some of the most memorable times in WWE history when I, as a viewer, really felt compelled and interested in the product was when all those questions were answered and obvious each show. The initial run of The Corporation vs Steve Austin, Mankind then later McMahon-Helmsley Era vs mainly The Rock, and later, even during brand split with the Evolution storyline with leader Triple H basically vs all of the rest of the Raw roster.

One of my MOST FAVORITE clips of all-time was shortly after Orton was ejected from Evolution and then Evolution was 'running the show' but finally the rest of the roster didn't stand for it anymore and the big finale was Triple H and Flair trying to escape up the ramp after a screwy finish and the Raw roster blocking all exits leading to Triple H getting pummelled in the middle of the ring by guys like Maven (remember him? lol), Benoit, Jericho, and Orton! THAT was compelling TV and very satisfying.

I feel like it's so rare for that kind of development to happen these days because WWE seems too relaxed to do such a storyline that really affects the whole roster with a big, evil faction gaining power and taking over.

To me, what really makes a good heel is people who are despicable, manipulative, corrupt and have power. Seeing them rise to that level will raise my interest because I can't wait to see them finally get what's coming to them. I feel like Raw should pretty regularly being trying to work on that type of theme with their top heels.

That said, it would be a little bit of overkill if the exact same thing was happening on SmackDown... but that's where the two brands could have separate identities.

Raw could be basically the brand of 'the quest for power above all else' which will lead to somewhat of a Game of Thrones-level of anarchy, corruption, manipulation, vengeance and victory.

SmackDown could b more the 'land of opportunity' which will come across more as a fair and balanced land where talent and skill are rewarded. A place where there are a little more #1 Contender matches, Qualifying matches, Open Challenges and opportunities to prove one's worth. Cetainley, personal feuds and storylines should be involved but the show can come across (somewhat similar to what it is now) as the land of opportunity which is more fair and balanced.



What's your take on this?

Is WWE too disjointed and too relaxed these days? What could be fixed or improved with the shows?
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2018, 04:22 PM
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The old 80s NWA was perfect at this. Granted, wasn't a lot of TV big matches (though there were a few), you had multiple feuds going on. You had Magnum TA feuding with Koloffs, Midnight Express, and Horsemen at once. You had Dusty feuding with Horsemen, Midnight, Paul Jones army.. etc.

Not sure how you would pull that off on todays programming where you basically get PPV matches on live TV (thus the end of PPV's). I mean who cares to watch a PPV to see Styles vs Nak when it happens on free TV?

But anyway, back to topic. I hear what you are saying. Even in the attitude era they had this to an extent. But lately yeah. Once someones segment is up with said person, they are usually no where to be found again rest of show. Or if it's the beginning it may be made the main event. But you catch my drift.
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2018, 04:51 PM
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The big problem with WWE is that the company as become such a big enterprise and as so different type of fans that they can't go and produce a product that will please everyone anymore. Everybody want something different so they have to please everybody and it's becoming harder and harder to create that type of product.

Also the fact that keyfabe is pretty much dead thanks to social media and the internet that you can't really produce a product like they did in the 80's & 90's. Back Then, all you had to do is create compelling characters and storylines and fans would go on and cheer for the good guys and boo the bad guys. It wasn't about the wrestling part of it but more about the storytelling and that's something that has change a lot with times, especially with the smart fans which are more interesting in the performance part of wrestling and less with the storytelling part of it.

A guy like Ric Flair wouldn't be as popular as he was back in the 70's and 80's in today's environment because Flair wasn't a great wrestler. He was a great storyteller but as a technical wrestler he always did the minimum and he would be the first one to admit that.

So personally i don't think the WWE is too disjointed or too relaxed but more that it's way too big and it's serving too many peoples to create a product that will please everyone.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:29 AM
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The writing sucks for both brands. At least NXT has compelling storylines here and there like the simple but effective Gargano vs Ciampa feud. WWE is lazy with there writing and booking. Storylines they do put out don't make sense or they don't pay attention to detail. Now kayfabe like it was in the 80's and 90's might be gone but it doesn't mean you can't have some of it. However, there lies the problem. WWE is a global company that is about one thing now...Money! They're making more money now than before. So they can afford to be lazy and also there is no other real competition in the market like years ago. So they sacrifice good storytelling and kayfabe so they can put heels and faces together for Total Divas and Ride Alongs and things in that nature. Also because they are global and traded on stock market, it's hard for them to do angles where they push the limit. Add in all the cheap plugs and shitty celeb guests and promotions because of money and you get what we watch every Monday and Tuesday.
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2018, 12:16 PM
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WWE is a big money making corporation now, the times have changed from the 80's and 90's wrestling. It was awesome back in the day all the characters and groups that you had which maid for good feuds and story lines. Today you see good guys and bad guys together at autograph signings and shows like ride along. The story lines are weak and terrible it is like they are lazy. The ratings will tell you that, the same thing every week A.J. verses Shinske on Smackdown and at the Pay per views. On Raw Roman always in the title picture and Brock always the invisible Champion, this is not working. I like Roman but they are pushing him to hard, change him to a heel and give him some backup let them run all over Raw. Take the title away from Brock and give it to Braun or Seth let Roman and his guys feud with them. They really need to go back to the old days with the feuds, I don't know if it will work today but at least try it your rating are hurting already.
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Old 05-28-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkw1962 View Post
WWE is a big money making corporation now, the times have changed from the 80's and 90's wrestling. It was awesome back in the day all the characters and groups that you had which maid for good feuds and story lines. Today you see good guys and bad guys together at autograph signings and shows like ride along. The story lines are weak and terrible it is like they are lazy. The ratings will tell you that, the same thing every week A.J. verses Shinske on Smackdown and at the Pay per views. On Raw Roman always in the title picture and Brock always the invisible Champion, this is not working. I like Roman but they are pushing him to hard, change him to a heel and give him some backup let them run all over Raw. Take the title away from Brock and give it to Braun or Seth let Roman and his guys feud with them. They really need to go back to the old days with the feuds, I don't know if it will work today but at least try it your rating are hurting already.
Lots of good points made.

Kind of goes back to one of my original points, WWE is too relaxed. You can watch a episode of Raw or SmackDown with about as much intensity as watching professional golf. There's very little ACTUAL turn of events or big developments that can truly engage the viewers. Too predictable and calm.

Like you said, you pretty much know you turn on Raw it's going to be invisible champ Lesnar, some weak, dull storyline with Roman Reigns trying to do everything on his own. You turn on SmackDown and it's a slow boiling feud between AJ and Shinsuke. AJ still hasn't learned to wear a cup to protect himself and Shinsuke made himself a little more interesting going heel and this 'no speak english' thing, but that alone can't make for a great feud.


Any fan with a little bit of history going back to the 90s could pitch a lot better storylines than what is going on right now. Still would be basic in outline but are tried and tested formulas in the past that have worked. But they NEED passion and intensity to work.


Quick pitches for Raw:

- Roman says he's tired of doing so much hard work and the fans not giving him credit, so now he's going to do things a different way, he's going to start building the "Roman Empire" and start recruiting members who will support him on his quests. Then each week more pieces will be added. He could have a tag team join him ... maybe he asks some but they refuse and then others step up. He could call on Rollins but have Rollins surprisingly refuse and someone else attack Rollins to join Roman. Just from there so much more interesting storylines could come with further allegiances and betrayals.

- While the "Roman Empire" would be a semi-main over-arching storyline, there are sub-plots that could be more interesting like with the Women's Division, develop a strong, cunning Champion who is also manipulative and causes rifts between other females. Basically, establish a strong HEEL female champion (sorry, not a itty bitty girl like Bliss, she can be part of it, but not the main champion) and through that babyface challengers and favorites will emerge.


Quick pitches for SmackDown:

- US Champ Jeff Hardy is a fighting champion and has Open Challenges and because he's vocal about being willing to fight anybody, he starts getting attack by a number of different contenders, some of whom, fight amongst themselves as well. Basically, building a stronger mid-card division with intensity.

- I don't know what happened to the Bludgeon Brothers (I'm guessing an injury), but I liked what was happening with them as strong tag champs, seemingly unbeatable. So I would continue that as teams try to over power them or out-smart them.

- As for AJ and the WWE Title, he should have a target on his back from more than just Shinsuke. Could have a surprise attacker on AJ that looks like he was sent by Shinsuke but turns out to also be against Shinsuke and get a 3-way feud going.



Just some thoughts. But I hear some good points from those who have posted. Keep 'em coming.
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  #7  
Old 05-29-2018, 04:33 AM
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I don't know that it's too relaxed or disjointed, I think a lot of the problem lies with us. Now don't get me wrong, we all know that WWE does things that we all think flat out sucks sometimes or could be improved upon but, at the same time, we all know that so many of us come off as impossible to please. Some criticism is genuine, some I think is probably exaggerated and some is stated because hating on WWE is essentially the thing. Another big problem is the fact that we're not longer a bunch of 10 year old brats who think that pro wrestling is real; kayfabe is dead, the internet is the beast that killed it and we spend more time criticizing that WWE should do this or that, they should push this guy instead of that guy, they shouldn't put the belt on this wrestler until this specific time, these wrestlers should be let go, they should sign these other wrestlers, and so on and so forth. Basically we spend more time trying to spell out how we'd run things than even trying to enjoy the show because, as is par for the course when it comes to internet commentary, we think we could do it better.

WWE is going to get criticized no matter what. If they came out with an angle in which some big faction is "taking over" the company, you'll have complaints ranging from "ah, this is just a rip off of the nWo or the Shield" to "why're they pushing these guys" to the various nitpicking over every little detail, fantasy booking scenarios that can't possibly live up to realistic expectations and everything else in between.

It's got it's flaws and it always will, even when/if Triple H takes full control of the creative direction of the product. Something won't live up to expectations, we'll think they should've gone one way with something or someone instead of the other, this guy can't talk on the mic, this girl has no charisma, etc.

As for some things that, in my opinion, could be improved upon:

Stop with using dumbass, outdated stereotypes to build characters or programs. Last week, we got Sami Zayn bring out a bunch of crossdressers to be Bobby Lashley's "sisters" and they all got beaten up. This isn't 1985 where, unfortunately, it was okay to beat up guys dressed like women as it included more than a touch of homophobia as people, in those days especially, thought one ran hand in hand with the other.

Bobby Lashley comes off as this big ol' stud whereas Sami Zayn is portrayed not so much as a potential threat to him, but someone that's ultimately just a minor annoyance. Why should I care about a program like that? I'm not Vince McMahon, I don't jerk off to all this alpha male bullshit.

Stop trying to categorize wrestlers into roles that just don't suit them. Keeping with Bobby Lashley, stop trying to make him the happy, smiling babyface who tries to be funny. It's not him, it's as bad as when they were trying to do the same thing with Roman Reigns. Bobby Lashley is a legit badass, he's a legitimately great athlete so go with that. It's natural, it's easy, and it'll work.

Alter the way you present your product. I'd like to see WWE present itself in a more serious light, promote itself more along the lines of a real sport. Make the wins and losses feel like they matter to more than just a small handful of talent. More often than not, Raw especially comes off like it's a TV show and the wrestlers are actors and while that might be technically pretty close to the truth, it's also partially why it comes off as more tongue in cheek.
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  #8  
Old 05-29-2018, 05:19 AM
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So basically you want Heel stables again...and I’m all for it. The Four Horsemen carried the NWA. The New World Order pushed WCW past the WWF. D-Generation X helped take back the top spot. The days when Evolution and the Cabinet were running Raw and Smackdown respectively were the peak of the WWE. TNA’s best chance to overtake WWE were with the Main Event Mafia.

We need a group consisting of a main eventer, a mid-carder, and a tag team, to feud with Faces, and intertwine storylines. I would take it a step further and create interesting-brand stables. Then again, that could be counterproductive of the WWE trying to keep the Brands separate.

One example could be Braun Strowman teaming up with Matt Hardy and Bray Wyatt on Monday, and have Jeff Hardy teaming up with the Bludgeon Brothers on Tuesday. The Hardy Boyz and the Wyatt Family could be the strongest faction today.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:48 AM
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There are a million problems in WWE, but PG era and Be A Star are killing feuds, killing superstars/wrestlers and killing storylines...
They need to be more creative and make a lot of the roster have more opportunites. Stop building/destroying things before there is some payoff.
Make long feuds, make Specials for the lower roster, and try to profit all your talent without milking it
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:24 AM
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The thing I miss most is storylines that kept you interested. While I appreciate the ability of an "in-ring technician", I don't need it to enjoy wrestling. Growing up, my favorite was Bret Hart. Not the New Generation or Attitude Era Hitman. This was back in 1989. I liked that he had interesting matches. I enjoyed the actual match, whether it was him and Anvil or Bret solo. However, I never wished for a roster full of Bret Harts. I liked him because he was different in that way, but I loved the entire product back then. The stories were what I liked. Wrestling was used to further feuds, but it was only part of the tale.

King Kong Bundy breaking Hogan's ribs, Andre and Hogan battling at WM3, George Steele being in love with Elizabeth...these guys weren't putting on 5-star matches and I couldn't have cared less. Even later during the Monday Night Wars, whether it was "who will join the NWO this week?" or any of the many storylines going on at the time, I looked forward to what was coming up. A recent example was the Sister Abigail angle. I found myself looking forward to Raw (or SmackDown, I don't know) for the first time in ages because I found Wyatt interesting. It didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped, nor did all of the earlier angles in the 80s, but that's ok. They at least tried.

These days, they put a champ in the ring and then 4 or 5 wrestlers say they want a shot at the title. The GM or whoever then puts all of those challengers in a cluster of garbage match and the winner gets a title shot. ...over and over and over again. WWE, for the most part, has been on autopilot for far too long.

I'm sorry, like I said, I appreciate the ability of the 5-star athletes. But give me Rick Martel blinding Jake the Snake, resulting in a Blindfold Match, any day. That match is discarded by many and I LOVE it. The reason behind it made sense, the build up to it kept me interested and the match itself was entertaining. I don't know how many stars it got and I don't care. It was a mid-card, title-less feud and I absolutely loved it...and still enjoy watching that match now. THAT is a 5-star match in my book and I think it's a shame that such an angle has no place in today's product. If they want to keep the AJ/Nakamura title matches as wrestling clinics, fine. But why not have some fun with the undercard? And not just "fun" like throwing pancakes around. I mean fun like having some old-school Russo- or Dusty-type angles and give people a reason to care about the matches building up to the main events. There is room for all of it and it is a shame that the motivation to do better, as far as entertaining angles are concerned, is gone.

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