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  #21  
Old 01-19-2016, 08:14 AM
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I used to keep German-suplexing my opponents (as Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit) in the WWE video game. But even I did it with finesse
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The difference is that I DON'T keep watching. I have the Network to watch classic wrestling
I really have nothing to offer this lukewarm pile of horseshit masquerading as a forum thread, but I felt that it would be everyone's major loss if the above two statements were lost with the rest of the dross.
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2016, 08:19 AM
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Are you people serious, or is this like some idiotic level of trolling I've never come to understand? First of all, everyone wants to talk about how wrestling isn't believable because of size differences, and then WWE gives you a guy like Brock Lesnar who steamrolls over virtually a midget compared to him, and you people sit there and bash the damn thing you begged for. How in the hell can you sleep at night? Seriously, do you just stay up and find every tiny little thing to nitpick and then finally make a post about it?

Brock Lesnar, as previously stated, had Suplexed his way through EVERYBODY... John Cena, Triple H, HBK, Undertaker, Big Show, Mark Henry, Bo Dallas, Kane, Jamie Noble, Joey Mercury, Roman Reigns, CM Punk... the list is endless and yet here he is doing the same thing to a guy like Rollins and you find a problem with it. Brock Lesnar is a beast, and the reason why he does his Suplex Repeat shtick is because HE CAN. Who the hell is going to stop him? Who's going to be bold enough to stand up to him and say, "I dare you to Suplex me, bitch" and then be able to back that shit up? Absolutely nobody. And that's the beauty of Brock Lesnar. He can't lose, even when he does eventually lose. He's just that high on the Boss list. He's like Frieza, a legit badass that does what he wants when he wants.

The only problem I see in WWE is that they're not building the NEXT Brock Lesnar. But at the same time, why should they? They've got the REAL thing in their hands right now, so why not milk it for as long as possible.
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2016, 08:19 AM
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My thoughts are that you are in the minority. On most points, but certainly when you say he's ruining wrestling.

First off, is there anyone on the roster with the credentials, ability and appearance of Lesnar. As in, is there a NCAA, WWE, UFC and IWGP heavyweight champion in pro wrestling history, with ridiculous agility and strength and technical ability and the looks of a caucasian Incredible Hulk other than Lesnar? Because I'd say a guy with all of that was a once in a lifetime find. And let's no forget that Lesnar's reputation isn't just from outside sources; he was a pretty dominant fellow in his first WWE run too. His reputation as a star attraction isn't based on his current work, it's based on what he has done and accomplished previously.

Now, on the suplex point, yes it does get repetative. So was most of Hogans matches. And Flairs. But the formula worked even though it was mostly the same deal. Lesnars deal is he suplexes his opponents to death with a move he has perfected. (also, Lesnar isn't the only one to abuse the German suplex. I remember some matches with both Angle and Benoit where they'd hit ridiculous amounts of German Suplexes. Not just one guy on the roster doing it, but two simultaneously) Now while we see it whenever Lesnar shows up, we don't see it every week and not only does he do it to the lower card guys, he did it to Cena; the biggest star of the last 10 years. Also, Angle has been so guilty of doing the same thing with the Ankle lock in the past. Maybe not quite to the extent as Lesnar but he sure isn't innocent.

Looking more at him and Angle (as that seems to be the popular comparison) Kurt Angle is the only guy remotely comparable, but Angle's a different beast. He was born to be a pro wrestler, where as Lesnar was born to be whatever the hell he wants to be. People pay to see him because not only is he a beast, but he isn't around that often. Angle has for virtually all of his career been a more regular worker, giving him way more exposure than Lesnar, and is labelled as a technical suplex/submission master. Lesnar on the other hand is few-times-a-year physical freak; when you see someone move as quickly as him at his size and then proceed to destroy people, be they Bo Dallas or John Cena, it feels like an event. Kinda like Hogan going round and Hulking up to beat virtually everyone. Is it a predictable formula? Of course. But it's one that works, and if you're honest, you're waiting to see who is going to break the formula and get one hell of a rub by slaying the beast once and for all.

And lets not forget that when they did the suplex gimmick for the first time, it was against Cena and it garnered Lesnar a babyface pop because of the shock of how much he dominated. IF WWE have got a winning formula, they are going to stick with it. They're doing the same with Heyman, and I'll fight you on this one; since he's been back Heyman has put in serious 'Best Promo Ever' contenders and been the most consistent microphone performer on the entire roster.

You can say it's boring, predictable and a waste for all involved and watching when Lesnar rag-dolls someone around the ring and that isn't an issue. To be honest, it does get hard to argue those points. But to say it's ruining wrestling? As in all of wrestling? That's a bit silly and a case of overstating your personal feelings of disliking Lesnars character and status.
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by OYDK View Post
Well, I assume he's smiling because he's kicking the crap out of Rollins? He's smug and complacent because he knows Rollins has no chance against him. It's the gimmick, and part of the story being told in the ring. What's stupid is smiling while getting your ass kicked...
True. I felt so too. Just that I was a bit angry at the time.

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Have you watched Mania 19? Angle in no way carried Brock, it was a fantastic showing from two of the purest wrestlers to ever step into a wrestling ring. Things are different now. Brock did actually used to have back-and-forth matches until he ended The Streak, it was only after beating Taker that he began to destroy his opponents with multiple suplexes. Don't be fooled though. Brock wrestles this style because WWE wants him to. I have no doubt he can pull out 4 star matches whenever he damn well pleases. Hell, 2 of his matches in 2015 were nominated for MOTY.
Oh I have. I never said Brock wasn't a good wrestler or anything. It's precisely because he's...I have nothing but euology..swift, agile, tremendously athletic that I felt outraged at the booking of the mainevent from Battleground. Also, he has been overdoing the G suplex for quite a while now, which is why you can hear people booing during the G-suplexes from Battleground. And Angle vs Lesnar is one of the greatest matches of all time, which is one of the reasons why I have always liked Lesnar.

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Originally Posted by OYDK View Post
Point of wrestling is pleasing your fans. The fans obviously love Suplex City.

Because he draws. He makes the company more money than anybody else when he shows up. His wrestling style hasn't affected that.
So it's like if Britney Spears were to hire Kirk Hammet and James Hatfield, and all they're allowed to play is the Am, G major and C major chords..but never EVER play a guitar solo? That's how it is. So I guess dumb fans love "suplex city" and a big guy G-suplexing Seth Rollins over and over and over again and that's your mainevent for the WWE WHC. Very entertaining and acceptable, as long as it pleases the "fans".

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My thoughts are that Angle is a wrestling mark, Lesnar is a money mark. Angle has extreme passion for the wrestling business and probably only still wrestles because of his love for it. Lesnar on the other hand is in it to make as much money as possible while doing the least amount of work possible. We're talking about two completely different wrestling mindsets here. It's almost like comparing Bret Hart to Goldberg.
Even though the Bret Hart-Goldberg analogy is beautiful(it occured to me too), Goldberg is just a shame. Lesnar is a superb athlete, a humble person on account of his modest background, and yeah, a harder worker than most of us here combined. Just that, his attitude towards pro wrestling/WWE, as aquaman and others often say, isn't all that conducive and positive. Hell, I have read his book and Lesnar comes across as beautifully candid and himself admits that he never cared about wrestling(WWE) or making friends and that his primary goal is to make money and provide for his family. But that's another contentious issue surrounding Lesnar.
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2016, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Vanilla Midget View Post
Brock Lesnar is a massive draw and one of few mainstream names involved in the company. You sound more like you're an Angle and TNA fan than you are a Brock fan. That's completely fair.
Not really. I don't care about TNA ever since Sting left or otherwise. I just love Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar to a lesser extent. So yeah, I'm a fan of Lesnar's as well. But in life overall and when it comes to wrestling..I seek evolution, progress, beauty, art, development. I don't mean to say that there shouldn't be anything formulaic. But where's the fun in an awesome beast/athlete like Lesnar overdoing the G-suplex to Seth Rollins in a mainevent match and the fans chanting "suplex city" ? I felt outraged because I respect/like Lesnar, and if it only had to be a squash match, or if they only wanted to use a mainevent match to reignite Taker's feud with Lesnar, like Jeff the deliverer said..they could have done it a 100 other ways.

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The crappy thing about Brock is more his booking. He's basically been booked into WWE God mode since he steamrolled Cena for the title in 2014. Brock is also carrying the lustre of The Undertaker's streak to go along with it.

Brock is the legit fighter. So what? That now means he can't have matches? He only squashes now unless it's Taker. That's the real issue presently. There's nothing that says it can't start now. Why didn't Kofi get a bit of offence in at Beast in the East?

Lesnar is in his late 30s, and aside from his intestinal issues, he's never really suffered any kind of career shortening injury. Kurt angle has a surgically repaired neck and has suffered from drug and alcohol addiction for years.

Don't get me wrong, I've always like Kurt. I'd even argue he's a better wrestler than Brock, I don't think many would argue against that. Brock is physically and mentally more well, younger, and a bigger mainstream name than Kurt. That's just how it is.

The bad thing about Brock is when he goes over full time guys then vanishes. The only guys he's really gone over on TV are Punk and Cena, the rest have been part timers (Triple H and Taker).

Rollins stole the show at The Rumble, and again more literally at Mania 31. This years Mania will be the first time Brock locks up with a younger guy (likely Wyatt, Owens, or Ambrose - in that order), so now is the time to let someone beat Brock. I don't know if it's time to transfer the pin yet, that should probably come later, but it's time to transition him into someone who puts over the young guys. New stars are sorely needed, not old ones.
Exactly. Kudos to you for all the sensible, rational, concise points you put forward here. The main issue is the booking.

I'm really unsure about Lesnar and his booking now..now that they've booked him to make Seth Rollins look like a bitch/fool, broken the streak...broken Cena already, already defeated HHH...who really in the future is going to be even remotely credible now? Bray Wyatt? Roman Reigns? The future looks bleak.
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2016, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Renaissanceman4life View Post
Very entertaining and acceptable, as long as it pleases the "fans"
All those Suplex City chants make me think these people are happy. Your opinion fucking sucks.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2016, 09:54 AM
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Brock Lesnar is a beast, and the reason why he does his Suplex Repeat shtick is because HE CAN. Who the hell is going to stop him?
The last sentence is the big question, isn't it? The thing is, what happens to Brock Lesnar when someone does finally cleanly defeat him and his suplexes?

Everyone who has been featured as a 'monster' in the past had to lose sometime, and in pro wrestling it's possible to have the Creative people build him back up so he can still be a highly effective performer. Of all the examples one can name, I think of Hulk Hogan after losing cleanly to Ultimate Warrior at WM6. It was a monumental defeat, yet Hogan's rep wasn't diminished at all despite the fact he never got his revenge against Warrior. He was a permanent employee (or so it was believed at the time) and he continued building his legend.

With Brock, it might be different because he's been cast as so far superior to everyone else that he can wrestle only a few times a year and still knock off everyone WWE's got.

What happens when Brock finally loses fair & square? If he keeps competing in WWE, will he ever be regarded as highly again.....or will he be essentially be finished as a major factor?

It can be said that WWE has painted themselves in a corner with this, as witnessed by the strong possibility that Brock, unlike other WWE performers, has no intention of making a career of pro wrestling.

What happens when he finally loses? Will we ever find out?
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2016, 10:01 AM
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It wasn't "bad", it was HORRIBLE. Reigns did nothing but his pussywimp punches and his two moves, and Lesnar was gassed out five seconds into the match as usual, and did nothing beyond the three moves he always does. Boring, generic, bland, and terrible, all the way through. Only Rollins cashing in saved the match from being THE worst closing match in WrestleMania history. It was as bad as Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor. The only closing match in WM history that MIGHT be worse was Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy at WrestleMania 2, that's another one that's near unwatchable. But Hogan/Bundy closed a terrible WrestleMania, while Lesnar/Reigns closed a WrestleMania that was excellent all the way through until their horrendously bad match.
I have to agree with most points, pretty much everything, you say, since it's pretty obvious to me since yesterday, after having watched the Battleground match(I haven't even watched the triple threat from RR or Reigns-Lesnar from WM, yet)..I have joined you in that tiny little boat, so we're pretty much in the minority here.

But I also still feel Brock as a wrestler/performer/athlete is solid and welcome. But all I have felt since yesterday is despondency and bleakness as to WWE programming involving him. I agree, the HIAC match was absolutely shit, Taker was shit. The whole feud was shit. I can totally see your feeling when you call it "bland, generic, boring". Because that's exactly how I feel.

I'm pretty old-school when it comes to wrestling. Also, I hate overly formulaic things at times and love the complex, elaborate and absurd(in everything). So obviously, I'll always love Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle..and Lesnar used to put on good matches(I never said that he's a bad wrestler, he's a rather tremendously good one)..but the current WWE booking makes everybody else look like crap, and I'm totally against performers overdoing a G-suplex 10 times and acting smug, week in and week out. Give me some variety.

Watching the recap from Raw last week and his Raw appearance, I am a bit neutral about Lesnar now, but I can sense all the despondence and bleakness and bitterness still lingering around.

Last edited by RomanfreakinReigns : 01-19-2016 at 10:06 AM.
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2016, 10:02 AM
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The last sentence is the big question, isn't it? The thing is, what happens to Brock Lesnar when someone does finally cleanly defeat him and his suplexes?

Everyone who has been featured as a 'monster' in the past had to lose sometime, and in pro wrestling it's possible to have the Creative people build him back up so he can still be a highly effective performer. Of all the examples one can name, I think of Hulk Hogan after losing cleanly to Ultimate Warrior at WM6. It was a monumental defeat, yet Hogan's rep wasn't diminished at all despite the fact he never got his revenge against Warrior. He was a permanent employee (or so it was believed at the time) and he continued building his legend.

With Brock, it might be different because he's been cast as so far superior to everyone else that he can wrestle only a few times a year and still knock off everyone WWE's got.

What happens when Brock finally loses fair & square? If he keeps competing in WWE, will he ever be regarded as highly again.....or will he be essentially be finished as a major factor?

It can be said that WWE has painted themselves in a corner with this, as witnessed by the strong possibility that Brock, unlike other WWE performers, has no intention of making a career of pro wrestling.

What happens when he finally loses? Will we ever find out?
You'd have to think that Brock will remain 'protected' for the entirety of his current WWE deal(which is 3 years?). Thus, when someone does finally defeat him clean, it will most probably be done as a last rub.


Thus far, I think WWE have used him rather well, and I do hope their plan from now on, is to gradually 'bridge the gap' between Brock Lesnar and the possible Main Event hopefuls(Reigns, Wyatt, Owens, etc.) so that when he does take a clean pin, it would be done with someone who has gradually been built up in a way that such would be 'believable'.
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2016, 10:07 AM
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Well i am doubtful about Brock Lesnar ruining Wrestling but i am surely tired of him just doing German Suplexes. Yeah he is a beast but repetitiveness of these suplexes is wrong.

But WWE has surely hyped him so much that we are inclined to believe that noone in WWE is capable of defeating him. It would be interesting to see how WWE handles the end of his dominant run.

By the way, I too disliked the main event of Battleground and Undertaker's interference just worsened the situation. I neither liked the use of low blows by Taker nor the ending at Summerslam. Taker as a heel against Brock was a too dumb. There was no need for this feud and WWE just did it for their financial profits.


Last edited by ShinChan : 01-19-2016 at 10:10 AM.
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