Will the Nation of Domination be remembered as a dynasty faction?

[THTRobtaylor]

Originally Posted by Brewski

Are you serious right now? Are you really saying that the Nation of Domination did anything at all to progress the image of black wrestlers? First of all, while Simmons' accomplishments in WCW was important, he is in now way the first black champion nor did he break the color barrier. Bo Bo Brazil, Ed Wright, and Ernie Ladd were winning major NWA titles far before Simmons. Ron's title is considered especially important because it is just the first in WCW/WWE history. It wasn't as big of a deal at the time in comparison with the rest of the country. The NOD was the start of the drop of his career. He had success with Bradshaw as a tag team but never ever became a singles star again.

D'lo Brown (and this is a guy I like) will NEVER be in the HOF. The Godfather SHOULD NEVER be in the HOF. If he ever goes its all because of nostalgic popularity of his gimmick. If you recall, he was a pimp. Another black stereotype.

NOD is just another on a long list of black groups with racist gimmicks. They're no better than the Gangstaz of SMW or the Baldies of ECW. In the WWE there was MOM, Cryme Time, and Teddy Long playing the (literal) Race Card. These are all examples of companies trying to use race to get guys over because it's the easiest thing to do. Every time another angry black thug character comes on TV it puts black wrestlers back a year.

Same goes for anything similar to the Mexicools. I was amazed that got on television.



To me that shows clearly how far we've come.

Go back and read again... I said first World title in a GLOBAL company. Ernie Ladd, Bearcat etc won regional titles in the NWA before they were a global entity. Ron Simmons won the WCW World title in an era where they had just broken the global ceiling!

In fact read the whole thing again because frankly you missed the point entirely!

[Brewski]

Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor

Go back and read again... I said first World title in a GLOBAL company. Ernie Ladd, Bearcat etc won regional titles in the NWA before they were a global entity. Ron Simmons won the WCW World title in an era where they had just broken the global ceiling!

In fact read the whole thing again because frankly you missed the point entirely!

I suppose I really don't understand what your thesis is still. If it's to prove that the nation was a prototypical example of a complete faction you've proved that, i'm not arguing that point. My issue is more that you seem to be arguing that the nation broke ground for black wrestlers. Apart from the Rock, everyone's career went nowhere from there. At least for several years in the case of Henry.

You're right though, Simmons' achievement in WCW was important because it was the start of the era that wrestling moved to a national level (National, not global. but your point still stands), this was just as important as the other guys. I was saying that there was a lot more build up to that accomplishment than just Simmons.

[JohnJohnson]

I'd have to say yes. They were a big part of the formation of the Attitude era, which eventually led to the WWF winning the ratings war.

Did The Rock attain true main event level success after he left the group? Yes. So did Orton, so did Triple H. But before The Rock joined NOD, he was a largely hated and drew in a lot of negative heat. Vince put him in the NOD so that Kama and Farooq could guide him and Mark Henry. The Rock's nation character and angle with Farooq was a huge part of his persona really coming together. The NOD would eventually go on to feud with DX leading to a great IC ladder match at Summerslam which really helped propel both stars career.

If you look back at 97, a transitional year which helped mold the new era, many of the mid card feuds revolved around the NOD. Early in the year you had Farooq, Crush, and Vega feuding with the Harts, Ahmed Johnson, and LOD. You had the whole split up angle in which Farooq fired Crush and Vega who went on to create two new stable. What was good about this, is it gave 3 stables a real reason to dislike each other, rather than just feuding for the sake of it, and additionally it gave some of the less used/ younger talents some TV time(where have I heard demand for that before?). D-lo finally got to get in there and show what he can do, rather than be a suit in the background. In my opinion D-lo Brown is a great wrestler. I've always been interested in his matches, his surprising athleticism, some incredile spots, and the whole attitude(cough) that he brought to the ring, from the moment he walked through the curtain to the moment he left. I also think that the feuding of these stable was important, because it gave a nice blance of wrestling and brawling on the show. WCW had the NWO which gained a lot of popularity from the way they would come in there unannounced and brawl. So, at this point, the WWF not only had great main event talens, along with a lot of talented ring workers, but they also had that more organic all out fight atmosphere throughout part of the show. I mean if you watch the entrance video from the time, you see an all out brawl and it gets you pumped. I think this helped kinda transition WWF from the older style of wrestling to the newer era.

Additionally with the NOD you had great promos. I like a lot of Farooq's promos about growing up poor. It was something a different demographic can relate to while they watch this show full of stars that make lots of money and travel the world. A lot of Farooq's promos felt real. This guy was a former WCW world champ, but comes to the WWF and wrestles the mid card, and on top that points out the fact that Vince has never had a black WWF world champ. It jus felt so real, and was a true point, at the time. For some it really raised some eyebrows, no pun intended lol. The NOD was the first time The Rock cut a good promo. The Kama became The Godfather through a promo. Whether you liked the pimp idea or not, he got big reactions, and it really gave the crowd of that time, what they wanted.

Then, you throw in the list of belts that the members have gone on to win, I'd say it worked pretty well. It helped pave the way for the future. It gave the mid card something to do to help carry the show from point A to point B. It created several great stars. I think it was great. It was something different and original. It was edgy and bold. It appealed to a different demographic. Easily one of my favorite stables and one that I would like to see come back. Maybe led by Shelton Benjamin? Lol, he could complain about being one of wrestlings greatest athletes but never making it to the top, and start asking why. Race would never have to be brought into it, it would be a subtle NOD (see what I did there) to the old theme of the stable, while technically being PC friendly.

[trashboy]

Originally Posted by Mack_Swagger

Isn't it funny how wrestling fans always point out the fact that the Nation was a all-black faction but fail to remember that factions like the Four Horsemen was an all-white faction? Does race really play a factor in wrestling factions?? It really shouldn't! But in question, will the Nation of Domination be remembered as a dynasty faction?

Technically though the Nation wasn't an all black group. Remember they had PG-13, Savio Vega and Crush, which if I remember correctly were not black. Then at a later date, when they got kicked out, yes they became an all black group. But then after The Rock joined, Owen Hart joined shortly after, also not black.

[Mack_Swagger]

Originally Posted by kingk12

However, The Four Horsemen wasn't pushing a White Supremacy idea. The Nation was pushing an idea that "We are the 'Nation' of Domination." Which brings me to another question, do you think that a group pushing a white supremacy or black supremacy idea would fly in 2012???

Also I believe they will be a dynasty because collectively the group has held;
WWE Title (Rock)
World Title (Mark Henry)
IC Title, European Title, Hardcore Title, Tag Team Titles, etc...

White supremacy? Funny. Out of all the members of the Four Horsemen, and I mean ALL THE MEMBERS whomever was a horsemen was always white. But I didn't lean anywhere near saying that the Four Horsemen were a white supremacy group or anything.

If anything, the closes person from the Four Horsemen that comes close to being a white supremacy-type of guy or a racist is/was Ole Anderson. Ole was a straight-up asshole inside & outside of the ring when it came to people, mostly of color.

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Mack_Swagger

White supremacy? Funny. Out of all the members of the Four Horsemen, and I mean ALL THE MEMBERS whomever was a horsemen was always white. But I didn't lean anywhere near saying that the Four Horsemen were a white supremacy group or anything.

If anything, the closes person from the Four Horsemen that comes close to being a white supremacy-type of guy or a racist is/was Ole Anderson. Ole was a straight-up asshole inside & outside of the ring when it came to people, mostly of color.

You're really that fucking dense, aren't you? You were insinuating that people only called NOD a black supremacy group because they were black. This guy was showing you how retarded you sound because it had little to do with the color of their skin and more to do with what they actually fucking were. They were blatantly trying to act like a Black Panthers kind of group. The 4 Horsemen weren't pushing an idea of white supremacy, idiot.

[Mack_Swagger]

Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi

Go ahead and spam me for this, but I just wanted to point out that posts like this really turn me off from these boards altogether. A bit on the ridiculous side with the insults, and this is a common thing around here. So much disrespect. More so here than any other boards that I haunt. Even if you strongly disagree with someone there is just really no reason for this kind of attitude towards each other.

I have come to realize that Nate is filled with alot of HATE and he needs to rise above it and not embrace it :-). I was just pointing out that the two factions in the Nation of Domination and the Four Horsemen had two different gimmicks. One was high society life in the fastlane. And the other was a group of militants being oppressed by "the man" in an industry that is dominated (no pun intended) by white athletes.

Both stable's didn't have to be the same. And as for that Ole Anderson comment. Ole was an all-around jackass in wrestling, going back to why he wasn't inducted into the WWE hall of fame with the original Four Horsemen (Ric, Tully, and Arn). Tell you the true Nate kinda reminds me of Ole Anderson with his attitude towards people. Nate you can spam me too, but get a life away from these WZ threads you moron! :-l

[Nate]

Originally Posted by Mack_Swagger

I have come to realize that Nate is filled with alot of HATE and he needs to rise above it and not embrace it :-). I was just pointing out that the two factions in the Nation of Domination and the Four Horsemen had two different gimmicks. One was high society life in the fastlane. And the other was a group of militants being oppressed by "the man" in an industry that is dominated (no pun intended) by white athletes.

Both stable's didn't have to be the same. And as for that Ole Anderson comment. Ole was an all-around jackass in wrestling, going back to why he wasn't inducted into the WWE hall of fame with the original Four Horsemen (Ric, Tully, and Arn). Tell you the true Nate kinda reminds me of Ole Anderson with his attitude towards people. Nate you can spam me too, but get a life away from these WZ threads you moron! :-l

This isn't SPAM, you were on topic.

You were not pointing out that they had 2 different gimmicks, you were in fact trying to compare the two by criticizing people for not calling the Horsemen a white supremacy group. What you said was remarkably stupid and you deserve every bit of shit you got for it. The Nation's gimmick was based on race, the Horsemen had fuck all to do with race.

Now if you were to criticize that shitty group in WCW that sang the "Rap is Crap" songs, accusing them of being racist, you'd have a point to an extent.

Also, nobody said anything about your Ole Anderson comments, no one cares what you read on Wikipedia. There was no reason to clarify.

[JohnJohnson]

Mack wasn't insinuating that the Four Horesmen were a white supremacist group nor was he criticizing anyone for not calling it a white supremacist group. He was simply pointing out the fact that many people refer to NOD as an all black group, while at the same time they don't refer to all white stables like the Four Horsemen as all white. And yes I know the NOD was not all black and so does Mack as well as most other people on here. The fact that they weren't all black is the argument. The thing is that when people bring up the NOD and whether or not they could ever be reformed, people always argue that an all black stable will not be welcomed in this era. Which to me is ridiculous because all white stables exist all the time. Then many people want to argue that the NOD was a racist group for immitating the black panthers and holding their fists up. They weren't being racist to anyone however, they were complaining that they were being oppressed and they actually brought up great points and did great promos. While you might argue that the Black Panthers may have been a black supremacist group, does not mean that the NOD was also a black supremacist group just for dressing similar and holding up a fist. If you want to make that argument, then you could also argue that the Godwins were a racist team because they dressed the same way a lot of southern racists did and had a confederate flag. You could argue that the DOA was a racist group because two of them looked like skinheads and the other two looked like members of racist biker gangs. The point is that you can't argue that the NOD was a black supremacist group as some people here do(and if it's not you then I'm not talking to you here), simply because the looked similar. There promos weren't about black supremacy, they were about equality and being held back by the WWF. Another thing that bothers me, someone previously mentioned the NOD would talk about being oppressed by "the man" and draw heat. Now it's obviously not your fault they got heat for it, but I don't get why that would be something to get heat. You had a stable full of talented wrestlers that were being held down by the man and they get booed for it? CM Punk says almost the same thing and becomes a mega star? DAMN!

[Just Do It]

Originally Posted by Detroitsandman

At first with Farooq, Kama, D-Lo and Mark Henry it was supposed to be known as an all black faction.

Then they must have felt really silly starting with Crush and Wolfie D too.

yet more people talking about things they don't have a clue about. I wish people would think before they post on this forum.