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  #1  
Old 03-12-2017, 11:53 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Default When your favourites winning meant nothing?

Every year, I rewatch my favourite matches from the previous year's PPV. So, yesterday, I watched the 7-Man IC Ladder Match, at last year's Wrestlemania, won by Zack Ryder.

It got me thinking "Why did they book Ryder to win it when he becomes a non-factor the next night"?

Now, before you think I am attacking your favourites, it got me thinking of times where some who is a fan-favourite, and massively over with the crowd, gets a significant victory, and it finally looks like, after ignoring them for years, WWE have finally decided to invest in someone, only for reality to set in, and their "one moment in the sun" is fleeting.

I too thought "So, they are finally pushing X", but then, WWE fail to capitalise and the victory is soon forgotten.

Here are four examples of "fan-faves" amongst the IWC, who finally got their "big win", only for it to not go anywhere, and they remained in the same spot as before.

1) Like I mentioned, Zack Ryder won the IC belt at WM32 last year. It was announced as the first time he fought at WM, and his dad came in the ring and congratulated him on his victory.

And then....

The next night on RAW, The Miz beat Zack Ryder for the IC belt. Not only that, but there was a Fatal-4-Way at "Extreme Rules" the next month, with the Miz defending against Cesaro, Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn, and NO Zack Ryder.

So Ryder gets his "Wrestlemania" moment, and then he is forgotten about the next night, and the next month. I don't think he has recovered since.

2) Damien Sandow wins MITB. Damien Sandow won a MITB Ladder Match, and claimed the briefcase. This should have lead to a feud with Cody Rhodes, his tag-team partner, who he beat, and then onto cashing in on John Cena.

Sandow, though a heel, was massively popular at the time, and people marked for the fact that Sandow was going to become WWE Champion. You see, every single MITB winner to this point, to a man, went onto win the title. EVERY ONE. Except Sandow (to that point).

This was Sandow's big break, his time. Yet he cashed in, and got squashed by Cena, and was never heard of again. I think Cena was feuding with Punk at the time, and Sandow could have won the belt, and make it a Triple-Threat at the next PPV, or it would be a fresh opponent for Cena, someone he hadn't feuded with before. Yet he was cast aside.

3) Cesaro won "The Andre Battle Royal". Not only did he win a "Andre The Giant Battle Royal" he won the first one, at WMXXX. I tipped Big Show, because, like Andre, he is a giant. But Cesaro won, and with the pop he got, he was over, and set for big things.

However, did WWE capitalise on his popularity, and pull the trigger on turning him face. No, they made him a "Paul Heyman" guy. So, he was still a heel, despite the cheers, and still stayed in the same spot as before. Sure, there was never a No. 1 Contender's Title shot offered in the Battle Royal (there should be, to give it relevance), but you assume that winning it would entitle Cesaro to at least battle for the title, or be in the upper card. But it did nothing for him.

4) Dolph Ziggler is the sole survivor of the "Survivor Series" match to end the Authority.

Remember when Team Cena battled Team Authority at "Survivor Series"? Big Show turned heel, and Cena went out early.

But it was the performance of one man who really impressed me, Dolph Ziggler. Now, Dolph had failed to impress me up to that point. He looked like a stripper who had a name that rhymed with a Mark Wahlberg film character (I thought Ziggler might have been Val Venis 2.0). That doesn't scream main event.

But this night, Dolph arrived, IMO. He eliminated three men, and was the guy who ended the Authority (at least, temporarily). This was Ziggler's moment, and I thought that he was now legit to compete for the brass ring.

Then, Sting showed up. Now, I popped for this, like everyone, as it was history in the making. But I reasoned that Sting and Triple H would feud, but Dolph would take the slack for when Sting wasn't around.

Now, I thought that Dolph would get the accolades the next night on RAW, and get punished by Steph for ending the Authority. Dolph would become the guy they target, and Seth Rollins would feud with Dolph over it.

But on RAW, all I heard was how "Sting ended the Authority" this and how "Sting ended the Authority" that. Dolph hardly got mentioned or credited for it. After that, his stocks dropped and he was put in a rubbish feud with Rusev, gets lesser feuds, and doesn't seem to even be on the main card at Wrestlemania this year. How things could have been so different.

My point is, yes, get excited when these guys get a significant victory. But hold your horses, and keep the real excitement back, and see how the victory had made their career six or twelve months later. This could be start of superstardom, or a false dawn. These four examples highlight a great moment by the fans and said superstar, but lead to nothing significant.

How do you feel about these? Does it make you lose faith? Or do you still hope that a fave of yours will finally get the key to the main event washroom? I don't know if all these guys would have got to "Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena" levels of success, but why even tease a push that was never going to happen?

So, which is it? Better to have won and nothing come from it, or never to have won at all, and be spared disappointment?

(BTW, I left Daniel Bryan off the list, as injury derailed his push, so we can't say if he would have still been champion six months to a year later).
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2017, 12:23 AM
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It depends.

Ryder's win was just a vehicle for Miz and for Maryse to return. In this situation, I absolutely loved it. It was a legit surprise and gave the Mania crowd something to pop for. Ryder is not a guy who is going to stay at a high level. His character isn't ready for that. Miz beat Ryder which was designed to make people hate Miz even more and it worked. Ryder went back down to where he should be. Miz got more heat. Mania crowd got to pop for something. Everyone wins. This is not like when Ryder won the US title and got killed soon after. That was bad booking that helped no one. Ryder's IC title reign had a purpose and was beneficial to everyone involved (Ryder got a Mania moment).

Ziggler being put over that strong at Survivor Series and then doing nothing afterwards sucked. I think they probably put Ziggler in that spot due to his selling. They needed someone to sell forever and have it be believable while Sting took 5 hours to come down. Cena and Ryback wouldn't really work due to being powerhouses. No one cared about Rowan. Show turned on them. That left Ziggler. I get why they made a big deal out of Sting but really did not get why they did almost nothing with Ziggler. For the 500th time, Ziggler looked to be moving upwards and yet stayed exactly where he is. This type of booking killed Ryback. Every single time Ryback stepped up in a big moment, he lost. Ryback never recovered. Ziggler is stuck.

Again, it really depends. Ryder is not a guy who is going to be in a serious big feud. Ziggler could. The story told with Ryder was great. Ziggler had no followup on his story. Big difference.
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2017, 05:04 AM
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Ryder was given the IC title at Mania for one reason https://m.youtube.com/?gl=GB&hl=en-G...?v=VWdIZIqVHiw



Both Ryder and Charlotte needed to have belts for the joke in this commercial to work.
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2017, 05:28 AM
Kodo Sawaki Kodo Sawaki is offline
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Quote:
You see, every single MITB winner to this point, to a man, went onto win the title. EVERY ONE. Except Sandow (to that point).
Cena won MiTB before RAW 1000th episode. And then go on and tried to cash it in at RAW 1000. And then Punk turned heel and stopped that.

Dolph had numerous opportunities and still failed to impress. Ryder was always a joke. For Sandow I am more suprised that they didnt push him after his stint as "Damien Mizdow". He was red hot after that. And Cesaro, still dont know if it is because he is deemed as "injury prone" or he is just that unimpressive to company that they dont want to push him more. Of those 4 he is the only one that really can go to main event and do something.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2017, 05:59 AM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therockiswwf View Post
It depends.

Ryder's win was just a vehicle for Miz and for Maryse to return. In this situation, I absolutely loved it. It was a legit surprise and gave the Mania crowd something to pop for. Ryder is not a guy who is going to stay at a high level. His character isn't ready for that. Miz beat Ryder which was designed to make people hate Miz even more and it worked. Ryder went back down to where he should be. Miz got more heat. Mania crowd got to pop for something. Everyone wins. This is not like when Ryder won the US title and got killed soon after. That was bad booking that helped no one. Ryder's IC title reign had a purpose and was beneficial to everyone involved (Ryder got a Mania moment).

Ziggler being put over that strong at Survivor Series and then doing nothing afterwards sucked. I think they probably put Ziggler in that spot due to his selling. They needed someone to sell forever and have it be believable while Sting took 5 hours to come down. Cena and Ryback wouldn't really work due to being powerhouses. No one cared about Rowan. Show turned on them. That left Ziggler. I get why they made a big deal out of Sting but really did not get why they did almost nothing with Ziggler. For the 500th time, Ziggler looked to be moving upwards and yet stayed exactly where he is. This type of booking killed Ryback. Every single time Ryback stepped up in a big moment, he lost. Ryback never recovered. Ziggler is stuck.

Again, it really depends. Ryder is not a guy who is going to be in a serious big feud. Ziggler could. The story told with Ryder was great. Ziggler had no followup on his story. Big difference.
Look, I see what you are saying. I'm not saying that Ryder is a main event guy, but if Miz is going to win it the next night, why not have Miz just win it in the Ladder Match at WM the previous night. But worse, not even having him in the Fatal-4-Way Match at "Extreme Rules" a few weeks later didn't make sense.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2017, 06:04 AM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodo Sawaki View Post
Cena won MiTB before RAW 1000th episode. And then go on and tried to cash it in at RAW 1000. And then Punk turned heel and stopped that.

Dolph had numerous opportunities and still failed to impress. Ryder was always a joke. For Sandow I am more suprised that they didnt push him after his stint as "Damien Mizdow". He was red hot after that. And Cesaro, still dont know if it is because he is deemed as "injury prone" or he is just that unimpressive to company that they dont want to push him more. Of those 4 he is the only one that really can go to main event and do something.
I don't know if any of them are main-event material. That is not what I am saying.

I am asking why "cocktease" their fans with their victories, when there is no follow-through?

I think that you either follow through with that person, and make the victory mean something, or don't have them win it at all. It is like a momentary "spike", used to please fans, with no long-term payoff.

With Ryder's victory, it was just one of a number of nonsensical booking decisions at WM32 (one of the worst WMs ever) that meant nothing 24 hours later (others include the Taker-Shane stip, A.J. losing, yet being No. 1 contender the next night etc).
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2017, 06:56 AM
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Sami Zayn defeating Kevin Owens at Battleground did little to nothing for him.

If we're going to get technical though, there are way way too many to count. There are very few wins in WWE that actually mean and count for something, unless there's a championship on the line and even then sometimes they don't mean much as shown by the examples in this thread. But Kevin/Sami is definitely the one that sticks out the most in recent memory.
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_henderson1810 View Post
Look, I see what you are saying. I'm not saying that Ryder is a main event guy, but if Miz is going to win it the next night, why not have Miz just win it in the Ladder Match at WM the previous night. But worse, not even having him in the Fatal-4-Way Match at "Extreme Rules" a few weeks later didn't make sense.
Ryder is an underdog. Ryder got to celebrate with his dad and talk about his emotional journey. The picture with Hall, never getting to hear his music at Mania, etc.. Miz comes in and destroys Ryder's emotional win. That is better than Miz just winning at Mania. Winning at Mania would have gotten Miz booed but it wouldn't standout. Beating an underdog who just got the biggest win of his career does standout.

Ryder wasn't even supposed to be in the match. Neville was. That was likely why he was moved down so fast. They never meant it to be long-term plan. They meant it to be a story for Miz. I think Ryder did get a rematch on SD and lost which could kayfabe explain him not being in the IC picture anymore.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:55 AM
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I also thought that Ziggler would at least get in line for a great IC title comeback at WM 31. At least. But it didn't happen.

These victories are just prizes of gratitude. That's all. Ambrose, Ziggler, Bryan, Punk, Ryder. All those names had the same fate. Bryan and Punk only got out of that shadow because they were head and shoulders above everyone else.

At the end of the day they'll push whoever they like and in end this guy will become a star no matter what. Because they use the exposure of past wrestlers and their large ad empire. See Reigns. He's a star now.

If they don't like you, you must force them to like you and with a good attitude you can succeed, like Bryan did. You must be smart. Look at the Yes! chants for example. Simple and effective. Catchphrases work. The fans always play a vital role in everything but it also depends on how the wrestler connects with the audience.

A guy like Ziggler that walks around thinking that he's the best will never succeed. Never.
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2017, 10:06 AM
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Roman Reigns beating HHH at WrestleMania 32. Nothing of consequence occured in the aftermath of that, other than Reigns becoming slightly more tweenerish in character alignment.

HHH still returned to screw Reigns in the 4-way(which has been forgotten by many who usually nitpick each and every detail) and Stephanie has returned as normal
Nothing has actually been acknowledged about any of the characters progression in the aftermath whatsoever. Poor storytelling all around, lMO.
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