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  #21  
Old 03-25-2018, 06:28 AM
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You're welcome.


Like I said, I'm speaking on MY behalf. I watch it to be entertained. Not to think about how WWE will gain profits. That is their work.


I never disagreed with this.


Squashing jobbers each Raw.


Nope. After the split from Wyatt Family, he actually started from the bottom. Unlike Roman Reigns.


Strowman got over. Due to multiple reasons. His monster look plus believable booking. He was BOOKED perfectly. Not just because he faced Roman Reigns. Sheamus, Rusev etc also faced Roman Reigns. None were elevated. Instead, it was opposite.


Good ones. But if this is his best, then I'll prefer not seeing.


Because his booking was good. Unlike now. Where he's calling out Brock as Vince's guy in total irony.


Really? Nope. He got beaten in promo battles every week and then won an underwhelming match.


He has grown. He has improved. But a top guy should give a better promo. If not then please give Cesaro the top spot as well.


Your prerogative.


Really? Like I said earlier, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins were having one of the best feuds of all time. And Roman Reigns? He was just there. Super over? Yeah. Dean was. And Vince pushed Roman Reigns. We all know why. Don't tell me that he was the top merchandise seller when Vince decided to push him.


Not everyone who turned on him reads Meltzer. It was pretty evident that even without Meltzer telling, that he was being over pushed for a spot he wasn't ready. And still isn't.


Everyone works hard. Roman Reigns isn't someone different to work hard. For some reason, he doesn't belong on the spot. Because this is his 4th consecutive Wrestlemania main event and he still hasn't made me feel like he belongs. Lame promos aren't doing any good.


Of course. You'll predict so. While totally ignoring the difference between Roman and Braun. A wrestler over pushed. And a wrestler's organic rise.
Don't have any problem with most of what you have what you have written. My only problem is saying that strowman had a organic rise. Did we watch the same guy. Strowman got as overpushed as reigns, the difference is that after a year of getting either no reaction or plain heel reaction, they put him against reigns who was red hot at the time because of the taker win and it put strowman over the top as a babyface, which by the way was Vince's plan. The only reason reigns never got the same reaction as strowman is getting right now as nothing to do with Vince overfishing him or not being ready for the spot and has everything to do with the fact that he wasn't Daniel Bryan and That's who the fans wanted to see get the main event push at the time and he never recovered from that.

Strowman doesn't will entertain doesn't deserve the spot he's getting either if I use your logic.
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  #22  
Old 03-25-2018, 10:15 AM
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Don't have any problem with most of what you have what you have written. My only problem is saying that strowman had a organic rise. Did we watch the same guy. Strowman got as overpushed as reigns, the difference is that after a year of getting either no reaction or plain heel reaction, they put him against reigns who was red hot at the time because of the taker win and it put strowman over the top as a babyface, which by the way was Vince's plan. The only reason reigns never got the same reaction as strowman is getting right now as nothing to do with Vince overfishing him or not being ready for the spot and has everything to do with the fact that he wasn't Daniel Bryan and That's who the fans wanted to see get the main event push at the time and he never recovered from that.

Strowman doesn't will entertain doesn't deserve the spot he's getting either if I use your logic.
Oh. Come on.

Dean Ambrose was damn over. And was one of the few who were cheered at Royal Rumble 2015. Why couldn't Roman Reigns be cheered? Well, he wasn't ready. And it was visible to everyone. Not just the ones on internet but others as well. Dean Ambrose was obviously not Daniel Bryan so why was he being cheered? Because audience made a connection with him. Through his feud against Seth Rollins. Unlike Roman Reigns. Don't try to cover up Roman Reigns' weakness and make a lame excuse that he was being booed because he wasn't Daniel Bryan. Try better to cover the lack of character in Roman Reigns. By the way, a young hero getting destroyed by Kane and Big Show and needing The Rock's help to fight them in 2015 of years isn't how you make me feel for Roman Reigns.

Coming onto Braun Strowman, he had obviously an organic rise. Totally opposite of Roman Reigns. That's not my opinion. That is a fact.

Let's compare through facts.

The first Wrestlemania Roman Reigns entered as a singles competitor, he main evented it. Straight to main event.

The first Wrestlemania Braun Strowman entered as a singles competitor, he was in Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal. Funnily, he didn't even last until the end, let alone win it.

That's one of the big differences. Vince gave Roman Reigns a rocket push. But the same Vince let Braun grow into a interesting monster. That got so over that they had to turn him face. And let's not even enter Roman Reigns being face discussion.

Now, Roman Reigns is main eventing his 4th Wrestlemania. Consecutive one. While Braun may be on the pre-show in a tag title match. Huge difference between these pushes. Stop trying to mould facts to support your opinion.

Also, Braun has had more of a character improvement in an year than Roman Reigns has had in so many years.

Side note - Braun started feuding with Roman Reigns before the latter faced The Undertaker. Much before Wrestlemania 33.

Strowman more than deserves the top spot. He has consistently improved. And entertained a lot. Be it matches or promos. One of the best characters in a long time.
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2018, 04:27 PM
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Oh. Come on.

Dean Ambrose was damn over. And was one of the few who were cheered at Royal Rumble 2015. Why couldn't Roman Reigns be cheered? Well, he wasn't ready. And it was visible to everyone. Not just the ones on internet but others as well. Dean Ambrose was obviously not Daniel Bryan so why was he being cheered? Because audience made a connection with him. Through his feud against Seth Rollins. Unlike Roman Reigns. Don't try to cover up Roman Reigns' weakness and make a lame excuse that he was being booed because he wasn't Daniel Bryan. Try better to cover the lack of character in Roman Reigns. By the way, a young hero getting destroyed by Kane and Big Show and needing The Rock's help to fight them in 2015 of years isn't how you make me feel for Roman Reigns.

Coming onto Braun Strowman, he had obviously an organic rise. Totally opposite of Roman Reigns. That's not my opinion. That is a fact.

Let's compare through facts.

The first Wrestlemania Roman Reigns entered as a singles competitor, he main evented it. Straight to main event.

The first Wrestlemania Braun Strowman entered as a singles competitor, he was in Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal. Funnily, he didn't even last until the end, let alone win it.

That's one of the big differences. Vince gave Roman Reigns a rocket push. But the same Vince let Braun grow into a interesting monster. That got so over that they had to turn him face. And let's not even enter Roman Reigns being face discussion.

Now, Roman Reigns is main eventing his 4th Wrestlemania. Consecutive one. While Braun may be on the pre-show in a tag title match. Huge difference between these pushes. Stop trying to mould facts to support your opinion.

Also, Braun has had more of a character improvement in an year than Roman Reigns has had in so many years.

Side note - Braun started feuding with Roman Reigns before the latter faced The Undertaker. Much before Wrestlemania 33.

Strowman more than deserves the top spot. He has consistently improved. And entertained a lot. Be it matches or promos. One of the best characters in a long time.
But you're forgetting something here, Reigns did grow organically has well, if you remember i went from being the guy that nobody cared about in the Shield to the one that got the biggest cheer out of the three when they broke up. So i don't blame Vince for strapping a rocket to his back since he saw dollar signs when he heard the reaction he got. Sure the booking wasn't perfect and it hurt him in the end, but their also the part that he was getting a push instead of Bryan that kill his momemtum.

on a side note, Reigns as improved a lot since they first started pushing him. The guy is more confident with his promo while they're not the best in the company are way better then what he did when he first started and finally fit his character and has a wrestlers, he became a more well rounded guy compare to when they started pushing. The guy learn how to be a main eventer on the job which his a hard thing to do when you always get criticize by fans and dirt sheet writers that never been in the ring once but thing they know everything. So i applaud him for getting better every single years since this major push started. Compared to some other guys that got the same type of push in the past, he didn't just rest on the fact he was getting push, he took the opportunity to get better and prove that he deserve that spot.

As for Strowman, the guy got super over because he went into a feud with Reigns not because improved in the ring or at promo's. The only difference between reigns and Strowman is that Vince realize that the best way to have Strowman go over with the crowd is to put him against the one guy that the fans hated and that's reigns. That feud they had over the summer never happened, Strowman wouldn't be were he is today because for everything that he's good at, when not protected by his opponent or put in short matches, the guy is expose at how bad he his as a performer. Case in point, both Lesnar matches where awful matches. The fact is right now the guy is popular because he destroyed everybody which fans notice because he beat up the one guys fans wanted to see get destroyed and that's Reigns. Reigns helped him get over with the fans. The he just rode the momentum with his other feud and beside his one on one match with lesnar which was atrocious, he got pretty well protected by everybody else he worked with.

The fact his Strowman is still quite new to wrestling, he still as time to grow as a performer. Do i see him being a main eventer, sure i see him being pretty much the new version of Kane since he's pretty much willing to do whatever stupid crap WWE ask him to do. But do i think he need more training in ring before that happens, Yes i do. It's not a knock on the guy because i love the guy, but until he's able to wrestles a main event caliber matches without having to be protecting by his opponent all the time, he's not ready to be a main eventer and right now, if fans don't see that he had the rocket attach to his back since he started on the main roster 3 years ago then that's too bad. the only difference between Reigns and Strowman is that Reigns started on the main roster and got time to elevate his game while being part of the shield and the booking decisions kill him and bad timing with Bryan return and the fact that fans wanted Bryan to be the face of the company and not Reigns, not his lack of skill or promo skill.

Anyway, let's finish discussing this topic with what this thread is really about and that'S the mania match between lesnar and Reigns. I'm not so sure this will be the main event match at mania. I could very well see them put the mixed tag match as the main event just because of Ronda's involvement in the match so you're theory of Reigns main eventing four consecutive mania might not happen. The thing is no matter were this match is place, this will be a entertaining brawl in my opinion since they're last match was awesome and the storytelling was pretty good as well. Three years as past since that match and Reigns as become a better all around performer since then so i'm expecting something even better then their last match.

The whole build up to this match as been awesome and Reigns is cutting is best promo of his career. I could actually say that they are main event worthy promo's that he's cutting for the first time in his career.

You might not be entertain or see how much reigns as grown as a performer and that's your choice but i been a big fan of the guy since the beginning of last year and i've seen how much he has improve over that period. he made me care about a guy that at the same date last year, i couldn't care less about in Braun Strowman and he's more then deserving of the spot he's been given in my opinion.

The weird thing is, we might have the same discussion about braun strowman in a couple of years when fans start to turn on the guy because they are tired of him doing the same stick every time and being put in mania main event every single years which will probably happen by next year's mania since Reigns is pretty much set up for life as a top guy and vince can put all his attention on his second pet project.
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2018, 06:26 PM
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Let's give credit where credit is due, Vince mcmahon is smarter then all of us. The guy knew all along that by leaking the fact that he wanted Reigns to be a top guy to Meltzer and every other dirt sheet writers that the IWC would turn on him right away. The point of this whole push for Roman was never to make him a Austin Level babyface but they wanted another John Cena and that's exactly what they are getting right now.
So that explains why WWE had The Rock come endorse Reigns at the end of the 2015 Rumble and editing out videos to make him appear to be more popular than he is?
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2018, 09:56 PM
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But you're forgetting something here, Reigns did grow organically has well, if you remember i went from being the guy that nobody cared about in the Shield to the one that got the biggest cheer out of the three when they broke up. So i don't blame Vince for strapping a rocket to his back since he saw dollar signs when he heard the reaction he got. Sure the booking wasn't perfect and it hurt him in the end, but their also the part that he was getting a push instead of Bryan that kill his momemtum.
The guy that no one cared about on Shield was Rollins not Reigns.

Quote:
on a side note, Reigns as improved a lot since they first started pushing him. The guy is more confident with his promo while they're not the best in the company are way better then what he did when he first started and finally fit his character and has a wrestlers, he became a more well rounded guy compare to when they started pushing. The guy learn how to be a main eventer on the job which his a hard thing to do when you always get criticize by fans and dirt sheet writers that never been in the ring once but thing they know everything. So i applaud him for getting better every single years since this major push started. Compared to some other guys that got the same type of push in the past, he didn't just rest on the fact he was getting push, he took the opportunity to get better and prove that he deserve that spot.
I've never been a heart surgeon. Never done heart surgery. But if a doctor sucks at heart surgery, I'm going to call him out.

A lot of guys get better as they go on. Reigns isn't unique in that regard.

Quote:
As for Strowman, the guy got super over because he went into a feud with Reigns not because improved in the ring or at promo's. The only difference between reigns and Strowman is that Vince realize that the best way to have Strowman go over with the crowd is to put him against the one guy that the fans hated and that's reigns. That feud they had over the summer never happened, Strowman wouldn't be were he is today because for everything that he's good at, when not protected by his opponent or put in short matches, the guy is expose at how bad he his as a performer. Case in point, both Lesnar matches where awful matches. The fact is right now the guy is popular because he destroyed everybody which fans notice because he beat up the one guys fans wanted to see get destroyed and that's Reigns. Reigns helped him get over with the fans. The he just rode the momentum with his other feud and beside his one on one match with lesnar which was atrocious, he got pretty well protected by everybody else he worked with.
Strowman got over by being a big scary dude who could flip giant heavy things.

Quote:
The fact his Strowman is still quite new to wrestling, he still as time to grow as a performer. Do i see him being a main eventer, sure i see him being pretty much the new version of Kane since he's pretty much willing to do whatever stupid crap WWE ask him to do. But do i think he need more training in ring before that happens, Yes i do. It's not a knock on the guy because i love the guy, but until he's able to wrestles a main event caliber matches without having to be protecting by his opponent all the time, he's not ready to be a main eventer and right now, if fans don't see that he had the rocket attach to his back since he started on the main roster 3 years ago then that's too bad. the only difference between Reigns and Strowman is that Reigns started on the main roster and got time to elevate his game while being part of the shield and the booking decisions kill him and bad timing with Bryan return and the fact that fans wanted Bryan to be the face of the company and not Reigns, not his lack of skill or promo skill.
This perfectly explains why the fans booed everyone else on the night Reigns won the Rumble...oh wait they cheered others? Others who were more ready than Reigns was. Others who had more skill.

They booed the shit out of Strowman when he started being pushed. Strowman improved. They stopped booing. Are you lying or talking out of your ass about things you have no memory of?

Quote:
The whole build up to this match as been awesome and Reigns is cutting is best promo of his career. I could actually say that they are main event worthy promo's that he's cutting for the first time in his career.
No it hasn't. The storyline has consisted of one good beatdown segment and not much else.

Quote:
You might not be entertain or see how much reigns as grown as a performer and that's your choice but i been a big fan of the guy since the beginning of last year and i've seen how much he has improve over that period. he made me care about a guy that at the same date last year, i couldn't care less about in Braun Strowman and he's more then deserving of the spot he's been given in my opinion.
How are you so bad at grammar yet still get couldn't care less right?

Quote:
The weird thing is, we might have the same discussion about braun strowman in a couple of years when fans start to turn on the guy because they are tired of him doing the same stick every time and being put in mania main event every single years which will probably happen by next year's mania since Reigns is pretty much set up for life as a top guy and vince can put all his attention on his second pet project.
THE FANS ALREADY DID THIS WITH STROWMAN. They booed the fuck out of him but he improved into a big scary monster.

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So that explains why WWE had The Rock come endorse Reigns at the end of the 2015 Rumble and editing out videos to make him appear to be more popular than he is?
Obviously WWE wouldn't want another Austin. Why would they want another guy who lit WWE on fire?
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  #26  
Old 03-26-2018, 09:17 PM
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Reigns isn't truly hatred, they just love to boo him, that doesn't mean they hate him or won't buy is merch, it just mean that they like to boo him.
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The only difference between reigns and Strowman is that Vince realize that the best way to have Strowman go over with the crowd is to put him against the one guy that the fans hated and that's reigns.
But that wouldn't solve anything because no one truly hates Reigns, right? By your contradictory logic, Strowman is over because Reigns is secretly loved by everyone but fans cheered Strowman because Reigns is really hated? I think I understand this.

Look, Strowman wasn't turned face by booking. Reigns had little to do with his ascent. Strowman grew into the babyface role because he was consistently the best part of Raw for the better part of the last year or so which Reigns probably won't ever accomplish. Strowman got himself away from the boos because he improved immensely and started to show character.
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  #27  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:33 PM
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It's actually pretty funny at this point how WWE is still trying to position Reigns as the sympathetic babyface ... but he's just getting more boos than cheers.

I thought Vince knew the main thing about pro wrestling was listening to the crowd reaction and he should have heard for over a year now that Reigns is getting more boos than cheers.

I guess he just thought Reigns could work like a Cena and play the face roll while getting half booed. Problem is, Reigns is probably not just getting half booed he's getting more than half booed and a smattering of cheers. So it doesn't work the same.


Back in the AE these kind of one-sided beat downs would happen but it worked because, back the The Rock and Mankind were ACTUALLY accepted and cheered by the majority of fans so they then would naturally boo anyone who would place a heavy beat down on their favorites.


WWE is trying SOOOOO very hard to get Reigns over as a top babyface like The Rock, Stone Cold and Mankind. But it's not working they way they had planned.



Now, let's project this to Monday after WrestleMania. All signs point towards Reigns winning the Universal Title over Lesnar. To which many fans may boo the result of because they preferred Lesnar as Champion. So Reigns shows up on Raw with the Title to a shower of boos and can say something along the lines of "this is truly my yard and I am the undisputed big dog!" which will encourage more boos. But, wouldn't WWE want to have the fans be cheering loudly like when a true fan favorite overcomes the odds and wins the title?

So, what does Vince think Reigns is after WM? A babyface that gets booed? WTF?


To me, the only logical way to proceed is to have Reigns TURN FULL HEEL! Say to hell with the fans and start adding a team around him, a "Roman Empire" if you will and then the BOOS will be expected and encouraged and fans can then hopefully love to hate Roman and then a TRUE babyface can emerge.



If there is no clear Reigns heel turn at WM or Raw after WM, I will be ... well I won't say surprised because I actually expect it not to happen... so I'll say disappointed.

I'll be even more disappointed in fans if somehow they become sympathetic to Reigns and he magically becomes an adored babyface at WM or during the Raw after because he certainly has not been portrayed as a true babyface, even if Vince thinks he is.
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  #28  
Old 03-27-2018, 04:23 PM
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I think that the mentality of the WWE as a whole as change over the past few years. They don't see their wrestlers as traditional babyfaces and heels anymore. the main goal is that they make money for the company. I've heard HHH say so many times about the fans that are asking for Reigns to turn heel that ''if you boo him then he's already a heel and if you cheer him then he a babyface''. So that's the mentality of the company as a whole right. The fans create they're own babyfaces and heel now and we will continue to push the characters the way we want. Cheer the guy or boo the guy they don't cares, the fact is he's getting a reaction anyway which means he's making money for the company so the character is working, that'S the thinking behind pretty much every major push in the company.

They're not looking for the next austin or cena anymore, they're just looking for characters that can sell merchandise and Roman is one of those characters that makes them a lot of money especially with casual fans and children.

So i easy for us fans to say, they should listen the the reaction of the fans and turn him heel but we don't see the whole picture in the end, we just see what happens on tv every week and that's not enough to judge what WWE should do with a character.

In the end. I think WWE feel that the universal champion need to go on the guy that makes the most money for the company right now and that's reigns and don't cares about how fans will receive the title change because in the end, it's been over 2 years now and nothing as change in fact Reigns stock as risen in since this all started because he became one of the most valuable wrestler in the company plus fans that boo him continue to watch raw and go to raw tapings and PPV, so they're not losing anything.

I will leave you with another quote from the same HHH interview: ''WWE served many different type of fans, so it's hard to please everybody, So the important thing is that the crowd react to what we're doing, good or bad it doesn't matter because the important thing is everybody as a good time''.
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  #29  
Old 03-31-2018, 08:37 PM
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Why Reigns just can't be embracing the smug arrogant dick he was born to play/be...had me stumped. Heel him up, change the Shield look and music and go full blown heel. He will in time he the greatest baby face since The Rock, but he needs the heel run first. Forcing this garbage on us is terrible and I hope Lesnar shoots on him and man handles him. That Reigns is winning this is horrendous
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:12 PM
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Dana White has said that Lesnar is coming back to the UFC so, if true, that means WrestleMania is probably Lesnar's last appearance with WWE. While I doubt this will happen, I wonder if Lesnar might decide to go into business for himself and shoot on Reigns during their match. The reason I'm wondering that is that if Lesnar is indeed gone, I'm wondering how amicable and friendly the split with WWE; Brock Lesnar's something of an asshole if even half of the reports and rumors about him are true and he's proud of so such a disrespectful act isn't something that'd surprise me. After all, it's well known that Lesnar's only about the money no matter if it's wrestling or MMA, he doesn't care how unpopular that'd make him with the wrestlers or the fans so unless there's something that specifically states in his contract that he can't shoot without legal ramifications, I think it could happen. I don't think it's very likely at all, but I could see it happening.
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