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  #11  
Old 03-02-2018, 12:16 PM
HeenanGorilla HeenanGorilla is offline
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I enjoyed the match and the NWO/DX inclusion...but I absolutely noticed JBL's over the top pro-WWE commentary. It was a lot of "we" and "us" and I remember thinking that although he was part of WWE, he certainly wasn't a major part of the reason they eventually won. Even the recent article about Bischoff trying to sign away Bradshaw...that would have been one of the least interesting moves of the Monday Night Wars. WCW threw money down the drain plenty at that time, but paying JBL to come over when it wouldn't have been seen as a big loss by WWE fans or a big win by WCW fans just epitomizes that fact.

Maybe it was Vince feeding him lines that he had waited over a decade to say, maybe it was JBL taking credit like the 12th man on an NBA team or a backup QB that never saw any action, or a combo of both--but the commentary took away from the match. Not that it angered me or felt disrespectful, it just seemed over the top and unnecessary. It was Mania's version of Cole vomiting meaningless Rumble stats throughout that PPV. Not angering...just made me wish I could mute a specific commentators' mic, rather than mute the whole thing.
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2018, 05:58 PM
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Commentary distracting from the match is an overall problem in WWE not isolated to this match. RomanFreakinReigns is clear about their bias. They love Sting, so it's hard to tell if this issue is truly and objectively extreme within this match, or a symptom of a larger issue within commentary.

It made no sense for Triple H to go over Sting. JBL's commentary was always obnoxious, but it was on full display here. JBL was generally a heel, but towards the end of his run he'd make some babyface calls. It makes sense for JBL to hate on Sting here. Triple H and DX were clear cut heels in this match.

If Sting prevailed, the commentary here would be forgettable, as Sting would have overcome the vitriol spewed by Layfield. But he didn't, and this memory becomes more infection in the festering wound that was Sting's WWE run.

Clearly, this match was booked with the thought that Sting would wrestle at Mania 32, possibly beyond. But he didn't, he can't, and he won't.

What would improve commentary is to study the way Heenan played a heel. He put over the heels and voiced his disdain for the faces, all while still making the faces look strong. You knew Bobby feared them, you knew he hated them, but you ultimately knew that he didn't underestimate their strength or abilities.

Not everyone is The Brain though. Even Lawler at his peak mostly just marked out on the heels. He rarely talked them down, which is essential to telling the story. The heel commentator should be crooked, he should have an agenda, he shouldn't be putting himself over or burying the match.

Now we have Corey Graves. I'm a huge Graves fan, but it bugs the ever loving crap out of me that he isn't a full heel or face. He seems to just put over who he likes and crap on who he doesn't. He puts over Titus Worldwide (faces) and he puts over Miz and Co. (heels). He crapped on Enzo heel or face (understandable) but it didn't make any sense to his character.

Commentary is a bit of a lost art. They spend more time putting themselves over than focusing on the story being told in the ring. JBL played the role of the heel here, but he should have also been putting Sting over as a threat.
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  #13  
Old 03-04-2018, 05:10 PM
shooter_mcgavin shooter_mcgavin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJPhenom View Post
I'm sorry but that was JBL's job during that match. He was the heel commentator and Sting was the face in the match. Of course JBL was going to bury Sting and put over Trips. Honestly, he didn't say anything at all out of the norm. I don't see what the problem is. At least as far as the commentary goes.
A heel siding with the heel is one thing but a complete burial of a legends career is another. There was no excuse in JBL (and even Michael Cole) downplaying Sting's accomplishments.

As for JBL "doing his job" i am sorry a good heel commentator can still side with the heel over the face w/o doing what he did at WM31.
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2018, 07:51 AM
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I was highly annoyed and deeply offended when I watched the match too when it happened. And I was always team WWF/E, so I'm not a biased WCW mark.

From what I remember what was on the internet at the time, it wasn't supposed to be Sting's only match. From what I understood and was reading (admittedly, it's stuff on the internet, not the absolute final gospel), Sting was supposed to have a part time run and wrestle a few matches a year, similar to Taker. So the WWE and Triple H apologists here are wrong, no it was not logical and made sense for Triple H to win. It was obviously another opportunity for Vince and Triple H to bury WCW (again, I'm a long time WWE fan). It was obvious.

And JBL's commentary was really obnoxious, annoying and pissed me off. And yeah he was a "heel commentator," but you don't have to be a heel commentator and completely bury a guy. Listen to Bobby Heenan and Jesse Ventura for great examples. Sure they mocked and mad fun of the babyfaces, and cheered on and defended the heels, but they still put the babyfaces over in a positive way and didn't make the babyfaces seem like jabronis in the ring that didn't belong in there with the heel. Cause you know that's what good wrestling has always been. You make your opponent (babyface or heel) seem like a credible opponent and like they belong in the ring. Unfortunately the modern day WWE philosophy of heels is that you completely bury your babyface opponent and make them seem meaningless (aka: the Triple H and Stephanie McMahon method). That's exactly what JBL did here on commentary (which of course was from Vince's direction obviously). If he was "just being a heel commentator," then why didn't Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler jump in more and defend the babyface like what's supposed to happen in a babyface and heel commentator dynamic. There's supposed to be arguing/debating between the commentators. Other than a few lines of Lawler here, that didn't happen. Cole and Lawler for the most part stayed silent, and thus they were complicit in JBL's (and Vince/WWE's burial) of Sting. It was an obvious burial job, and anyone that defends it is just a WWE/Vince/Triple H apologist, plain and simple.

The DX/NWO thing made no sense but was an absolute fun moment regardless. I don't have any really bad things to say about it. Sure, yeah they're all Triple H's buddies (except Hogan), but those were the most recognizable/important members of the NWO and DX (excluding Chyna). So in order to have that moment, they had to be there. It was fun, and the crowd marked out like hell for it. It was pure nostalgia.

The ending was utter crap though. Sting goes down to a sledgehammer, then minutes later is shaking Triple H's hand. WTF? It's bad enough for Sting to lose in his first match of what's supposed to be a solid, part-time run, but then he gets up like nothing happened and shakes the hand of the guy that just hit him in the face with a sledgehammer. Utter garbage.


So to the OP, I'm not near the Sting and WCW fan that you were, but I was offended by the general match and presentation too (particularly the commentary and the ending of the match).

Last edited by dd23beatlesfan1 : 03-20-2018 at 07:54 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:11 AM
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Here's a fun vid for fanatics of Sting, and the good old days of the NWA in general.



Sting's expression at 7:07 is priceless.

Sting is one of those rare people who had earned even more respect from me after I learned more about them. Every story paints him as an honest and humble person who managed to build his brand without stepping on any toes and by earning the respect of everyone he worked with.

Jim Cornette mentioned on one of his podcasts that there was an incident where Dick Slater and his girlfriend Dark Journey had temporarily split up, so Dick had left for the venue for the show without taking her. She asked Sting for a ride, and he gave her one being the gentleman that he is. When he got there, someone told Dick that Sting just arrived with Dark Journey. Dick stormed into the face locker room, which was a huge taboo back then, and hit Sting so hard it temporarily knocked him out. While Sting was out, Dick held his face in a flushing toilet. Sting never took any retribution out on Dick for that, and I think it takes a Hell of a man to be able to stay composed after all that was done to him.

When the WWE finally got Sting, they really couldn't do much with him. I wish that HHH would have laid down for him. It's not like HHH needed a WrestleMania moment like that, and it would have been a well deserved addition to Sting's list of accolades. The WWE does what the WWE does, and they're the only national promotion that's worth a damn so they can afford to sell one of the greatest wrestlers of all time short. The addition of DX and the nWo just seemed stupid, it was like watching Motley Crue reunite at a bake sale. It's not like we haven't already seen DX and the nWo breakup and reform more times than was ever warranted, and it didn't make any sense for me to see the black and white nWo coming out to help Sting.

JBL? Yeah, I tune that doofus out. I don't remember his commentary because it sounded like more of the same chest beating tool bullshit that makes you wonder if anyone is a bigger mark than him. Maybe Vince was getting his catharsis through JBL, that wouldn't surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me if JBL was just jerking off his own ego the entire time. JBL got to be a world champion because he was friends with Taker and because HHH didn't want to move to Smackdown, Sting got to be a world champion because opponents like Vader and Ric Flair respected him as a wrestler and a champion. Lord knows that when he wasn't acting like a spoiled shithead on tv, JBL probably respected Sting as well.
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Last edited by enviousdominous : 03-20-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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