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View Poll Results: Gold Medal Ironman - Shawn Michaels (USA) vs Chris Benoit (CAN)
Shawn Michaels 28 40.58%
Chris Benoit 41 59.42%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2010, 04:29 PM
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I think Benoits sheer intensity and aggressive nature will carry him to a solid , but hard fought victory over Micheals. He has a good 2-0 record in these matches, he has home field advantage and his reputation of the Crippler was well earned. I see this ending 2-1 in favor of Benoit.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2010, 04:21 AM
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Shawn is, simply put, the better of the 2. I put Benoit in my Top 5 wrestlers, so in no way will I underestimate his ability to give Shawn a very tough challenge here. However, Shawn is a better wrestler. Benoit defeated Triple H, but Shawn Michaels defeated Bret Hart. Both are tough competitors, and this would be one of the closest, most interesting matches in the business. That being said, Benoit has never been as big as Shawn. I can't put Benoit over here. Not because he's not great, but because Shawn is greater.

The home field advantage has been used, however, it really doesn't matter as much as you like to say it does. Shawn was booked to go over Bret Hart in Canada. If he can go over Hart, do you think Benoit is anywhere near the hero he is? It's not even close.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
He's defeated Triple H and Shawn Michaels, back-to-back and in single's matches.
Would anyone like to tell me why Shawn lost his singles match with Benoit? I mean, we all know he was about to pin Benoit and win. Ah yeah I remember, an interference. There'll be no Triple H to save Benoit's ass in this match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. TM View Post
In Benoit's two iron man matches, one was a 60 man Iron Match. He was able to get two pinfalls in that match. Shawn Michaels was able to get 0 in his.
Shall I spin this around? I like doing that. Benoit was pinned 3 times in 60 minutes. In OVER 60 minutes, how many times was Shawn pinned? 0. By a wrestler who's at the very least of the same calibre of Benoit's, and some would argue Hart is actually even better than Benoit. If Hart can't get just 1 pin, I doubt Benoit would get enough to defeat Shawn. Now, I'm not saying Benoit will get 0 pins, but he'll get less than Shawn.
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
Shawn is, simply put, the better of the 2. I put Benoit in my Top 5 wrestlers, so in no way will I underestimate his ability to give Shawn a very tough challenge here. However, Shawn is a better wrestler. Benoit defeated Triple H, but Shawn Michaels defeated Bret Hart. Both are tough competitors, and this would be one of the closest, most interesting matches in the business. That being said, Benoit has never been as big as Shawn. I can't put Benoit over here. Not because he's not great, but because Shawn is greater.

The home field advantage has been used, however, it really doesn't matter as much as you like to say it does. Shawn was booked to go over Bret Hart in Canada. If he can go over Hart, do you think Benoit is anywhere near the hero he is? It's not even close.




Would anyone like to tell me why Shawn lost his singles match with Benoit? I mean, we all know he was about to pin Benoit and win. Ah yeah I remember, an interference. There'll be no Triple H to save Benoit's ass in this match.



Shall I spin this around? I like doing that. Benoit was pinned 3 times in 60 minutes. In OVER 60 minutes, how many times was Shawn pinned? 0. By a wrestler who's at the very least of the same calibre of Benoit's, and some would argue Hart is actually even better than Benoit. If Hart can't get just 1 pin, I doubt Benoit would get enough to defeat Shawn. Now, I'm not saying Benoit will get 0 pins, but he'll get less than Shawn.
1. How about that triple threat match at Backlash 2004. I remember Benoit making your boyfriend HBK tap out. He could do the same thing against and he has the Sharpshooter, Croosface, and the diving headbutt as ways to pin HBK.

2. The likelihood of Michaels losing a pin is much greater than him getting a pin. Benoit has gotten pinfalls in Iron Man Matches against wrestlers who wrestle similar to Hart in Angle and HHH.

3. It doesn't matter that Benoit has never been bigger than Shawn. That could have matter if HBK had actually beat Benoit before but he hasn't.
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Jerry Lawler View Post
1. How about that triple threat match at Backlash 2004. I remember Benoit making your boyfriend HBK tap out.
We got married yesterday, actually, he's my husband now. Shall I show why using Triple Threat matches usually isn't a valid argument? Wrestler A and B could beat the shit out of each other, while Wrestler C could stay out of it for the most part. After a while of A and B getting tired and injured, wrestler C could come out of no where and gain a pin. Say Wrestler A is Austin, Wrestler B is Hogan and Wrestler C is Shelton Benjamin. Would Benjamin be a better wrestler than Austin and Hogan in this case? Of course not, which is why Triple threat matches aren't a reliable way of seeing who would win a singles match.

Quote:
He could do the same thing against and he has the Sharpshooter, Croosface, and the diving headbutt as ways to pin HBK.
Shawn has also used the Sharpshooter, Crossface, AND has his own set of moves, such as Sweet chin Music which he can hit in a second. Both have wide movesets so it's not really an argument for or against either.

Quote:
2. The likelihood of Michaels losing a pin is much greater than him getting a pin. Benoit has gotten pinfalls in Iron Man Matches against wrestlers who wrestle similar to Hart in Angle and HHH.
First of all, on what planet does Hart wrestle the same as Triple H? Do you not watch wrestling? Second of all, Shwan has pinfalls over both, so again, this is kind of a stupid point.

However, both have had just over 90 minutes worth of Iron Man Matches. Shawn was pinned twice in those 90 minutes, Benoit was pinned 8 times, and Shawn's main competitor of Hart is a better wrestler than Benoits main competitor of Triple H.

Quote:
3. It doesn't matter that Benoit has never been bigger than Shawn. That could have matter if HBK had actually beat Benoit before but he hasn't.
Hon the only thing bringing up the Shawn/Benoit match does is make it obvious Benoit can only beat Shawn when Triple H interferes. Go watch the match again, Shawn had just kicked SCM and Triple H had to interfere or Shawn would have won.
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
We got married yesterday, actually, he's my husband now. Shall I show why using Triple Threat matches usually isn't a valid argument? Wrestler A and B could beat the shit out of each other, while Wrestler C could stay out of it for the most part. After a while of A and B getting tired and injured, wrestler C could come out of no where and gain a pin. Say Wrestler A is Austin, Wrestler B is Hogan and Wrestler C is Shelton Benjamin. Would Benjamin be a better wrestler than Austin and Hogan in this case? Of course not, which is why Triple threat matches aren't a reliable way of seeing who would win a singles match.

Shawn has also used the Sharpshooter, Crossface, AND has his own set of moves, such as Sweet chin Music which he can hit in a second. Both have wide movesets so it's not really an argument for or against either.

First of all, on what planet does Hart wrestle the same as Triple H? Do you not watch wrestling? Second of all, Shwan has pinfalls over both, so again, this is kind of a stupid point.

However, both have had just over 90 minutes worth of Iron Man Matches. Shawn was pinned twice in those 90 minutes, Benoit was pinned 8 times, and Shawn's main competitor of Hart is a better wrestler than Benoits main competitor of Triple H.

Hon the only thing bringing up the Shawn/Benoit match does is make it obvious Benoit can only beat Shawn when Triple H interferes. Go watch the match again, Shawn had just kicked SCM and Triple H had to interfere or Shawn would have won.
1. I've watched the match and he did hit SCM but you can only speculate as to whether he would have won. Maybe he would have or maybe he wouldn't. People have kicked out of SCM before.

2. I always love the "do you not watch wrestling" schtick when I have you on the run. HHH and Angle work a technical style similar to Hart even though HHH doesn't have a submission finisher. They usually target a body part to set up a finishing move (Angle at least). HHH has more victories over than HBK than the other way around

3. When is the last time HBK has won with the crossfacce? We all know the last time HBK has won with the Sharpshooter and I don't see McMahon ordering the bell to ring.

4. You would think HBK being so great that he would have gotten a pinfall off of Hart in 60 minutes. HBK can't run forever and Benoit may use the first half hour just to wear him down and then he can get the pinfalls from there.

I'm thinking Benoit wins 3-2.
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  #16  
Old 02-15-2010, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Jerry Lawler View Post
1. I've watched the match and he did hit SCM but you can only speculate as to whether he would have won. Maybe he would have or maybe he wouldn't. People have kicked out of SCM before.
Lol, this is pathetic. Do me a favour and watch again. If anyone can tell me that wasn't made to look like the match was over I will laugh in your face. Hell, the whole reason Triple H was booked to interfere AT THAT POINT is because the match was about to finish, and everyone knows that.

Quote:
2. I always love the "do you not watch wrestling" schtick when I have you on the run. HHH and Angle work a technical style similar to Hart even though HHH doesn't have a submission finisher. They usually target a body part to set up a finishing move (Angle at least). HHH has more victories over than HBK than the other way around
Have me on the run? Triple H has a completely different wrestling style to Hart and Angle, I really don't undersyand how you think they're so 'similar'. I don't even specifically mean the finisher here, just watching matches, a Triple H match is completely different to an Angle or Hart one.

Quote:
3. When is the last time HBK has won with the crossfacce? We all know the last time HBK has won with the Sharpshooter and I don't see McMahon ordering the bell to ring.
When was the last time Benoit won with it? But seriously, even if he didn't gain a submission out of one of those moves, crossface is a powerful move, which both men use with power - it'd cause some damage.

Quote:
4. You would think HBK being so great that he would have gotten a pinfall off of Hart in 60 minutes. HBK can't run forever and Benoit may use the first half hour just to wear him down and then he can get the pinfalls from there.
As I've pointed out many times, this argument can just be swung straight back around. If Benoit was so great he wouldn't have been pinned 8 times in just over 90 minutes of Iron Man matches.

Quote:
I'm thinking Benoit wins 3-2.
I love it when people say this, just randomly pulling numbers out of their head.
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  #17  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:08 AM
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I didn't even give this a second thought... HBK wins.

Benoit has his aggressive streak, but he tires after a while. HBK is known to fight WARS in the ring, and his stamina is off the charts.

I see a lot of pinfalls and tapouts during this match, but in true HBK style, I see him coming out with a tiebreaking Sweet Chin Music for the victory.
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  #18  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:11 AM
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One more important factor that I just though of is that I need to quote JR:

"NO ONE can out-perform Shawn Michaels in big-match situations."

Benoit, on the other hand, had an entire storyline written around the fact that he was a choke-artist in big-match situations.

Come on, people... stop breaking the rest of it down in Bible-sized word-forts. Nothing matters but these guys' track records. In his prime, HBK was known to come out on top in main event matches. In his prime, Benoit was known for LOSING them.

Done deal. HBK wins.
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  #19  
Old 02-15-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
One more important factor that I just though of is that I need to quote JR:

"NO ONE can out-perform Shawn Michaels in big-match situations."

Benoit, on the other hand, had an entire storyline written around the fact that he was a choke-artist in big-match situations.

Come on, people... stop breaking the rest of it down in Bible-sized word-forts. Nothing matters but these guys' track records. In his prime, HBK was known to come out on top in main event matches. In his prime, Benoit was known for LOSING them.

Done deal. HBK wins.
Hold on a minute now. I know Will went through HBK's career but at least I can emphasize on it. HBK is declared Mr. Wrestlemania but look at how many times he lost and who he has lost to in "big-match situations". He has lost to HHH, Benoit, Angle, Cena, and Undertaker in big match situations. He hasn't won a big match since 2002. He won the title off of HHH at Survivor Series and that was his only win against HHH. HBK has routinely come up on the losing end of big match situations. In a big match situation, Benoit won the Royal Rumble, beat HHH and HBK twice in PPV matches and in singles competition so I don't want to hear that shit about Benoit can't come through in a big match situation. He gave Kane his best match in years in 2004 and HBK had an average match with him just three months later.


HBK in his prime lost to Tatanka and Diesel at Wrestlemania and the Montreal Screwjob speaks for itself. Benoit will wear Michaels down and out and will win this match and I have no doubt about it.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Jerry Lawler View Post
Hold on a minute now. I know Will went through HBK's career but at least I can emphasize on it. HBK is declared Mr. Wrestlemania but look at how many times he lost and who he has lost to in "big-match situations". He has lost to HHH, Benoit, Angle, Cena, and Undertaker in big match situations. He hasn't won a big match since 2002. He won the title off of HHH at Survivor Series and that was his only win against HHH. HBK has routinely come up on the losing end of big match situations. In a big match situation, Benoit won the Royal Rumble, beat HHH and HBK twice in PPV matches and in singles competition so I don't want to hear that shit about Benoit can't come through in a big match situation. He gave Kane his best match in years in 2004 and HBK had an average match with him just three months later.
All of these would be valid arguments if we were speaking about HBK, prior to his lazy eye, hair loss, broken back, and bad knees. We're supposed to be judging these guys by their kayfabe gimmicks during their primes. So this whole argument above is null and void.

Quote:
HBK in his prime lost to Tatanka and Diesel at Wrestlemania and the Montreal Screwjob speaks for itself.
First of all, Tatanka defeated HBK by COUNTOUT. Can we really count that as a credible win? Besides, this match occurred WAY before HBK's prime. I think we can all agree that the time period of HBK's prime was during his main event years.

Which brings me to his match against Diesel at Wrestlemania. If you want to compare records, Diesel was defeated by Bret Hart for the WWE Championship during Survivor Series 1995. However, HBK defeated Bret Hart on more than one occasion for the WWE championship. This basically means that HBK > Bret Hart and is also > Diesel, even though he suffered a loss to him.

We could go in circles with this forever, but the point is that no wrestler is undefeated. But in HBK's prime, he was pretty close since he was rarely outperformed in big-match situations. However, one of the rare times he was outperformed was against a man that was better than Bret Hart; one of HBK's toughest opponents of all time. I think we can let that loss slide.

Chris Benoit's prime occurred during his run for the WHC around the time of Wrestlemania XX. Before that event, the storyline was a mimic of his real-life experiences of never being able to "win the big one." He was known as a choke artist DURING his prime. Granted, he defeated HHH and HBK at Wrestlemania, but HBK was far from being in his prime at that event, not to mention that a triple threat stipulation is hardly a good comparison of one's skill against another wrestler. Either way, his championship reign was a bore-fest and completely lackluster. After all, he lost that title to a 24-year-old, inexperienced Randy fucking Orton five months after he won it.

Chris Benoit's prime is not even in the same LEAGUE as HBK's prime. Not by a long-shot.
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