WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > The WrestleZone Forum Archives > The Wrestling Archives > Wrestlezolympics '10
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Bret Hart vs Samoa Joe, Submission Match
Bret Hart 52 76.47%
Samoa Joe 16 23.53%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-04-2010, 07:04 PM
Big Sexy's Avatar
Big Sexy Big Sexy is offline
Deadly Rap Cannibal
King of the Ring
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit
Age: 28
Posts: 3,212
Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-Leafy Snowboard View Post
I wouldn't call Sean Waltman on the same level as MCMG, Jack Evans, or most of the X Division. You asked what kind of move-set has Joe faced and Hart hasen't. I answered your question.
I think you are severely underrating Waltman, but again this whole point is irrelevant to the match in question.


Quote:
As the evidence shows he has faced fast and quick opponents. But I ask who retired him, oh yeah Goldberg.
Goldberg retired him because he was an inexperienced, unsafe worker. It was more the fact that Hart kept wrestling after Goldberg gave him the concussion and not the concussion itself.

Quote:
And while those guys have the speed and power of Joe he also brings a technical and MMA background to the fight giving him the edge again. Show me a wrestler with the MMA background as extensive as Joe's.
How about UFC Hall of Famer Ken Shamrock. Is he good enough for you? Bret and the Hart Foundation had a nice little feud with him.

Quote:
So Sabu was a spot monkey jobber in TNA? I think he beat Abyss in a barb wire match.
Basically yes. He was in a lot of big matches but with the exception of the barbed wire match against Abyss he lost almost all of them. Spot monkey jobber to the stars.

Quote:
and Raven won the TNA title. I think that's a little bit above jobber level.
He had the title for a couple months, but that was a year before this Monster's Ball match you are speaking of took place. Raven at that point was not a main eventer. Even if he was it is still not nearly as impressive as defeating Chris Benoit and Sting in the same night. With both wins coming by submission.

Quote:
Yes Joe is no Stone Cold. But Bret beat him when Austin was still young. And Austin doesn't have the extensive technical background Joe brings. This is a no DQ match and we've seen Joe get hardcore from his early days to the "Nation of Violence". This man can fly, hit, and grapple. Bret can just grapple, well I'll give him that but you can't grapple a man with a chair.
I don't care if Joe could cure cancer, he isn't going to beat Bret Hart. Bret is a wrestling legend. Samoa Joe is very good, but he isn't on Bret's level. It would be a great match but Bret wins.
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #12  
Old 02-04-2010, 07:26 PM
Super Crazy's Avatar
Super Crazy Super Crazy is offline
CABS ARE HEEEERREEE!!
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fredericton NB Canada
Posts: 795
Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...Super Crazy worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

I'm going to go with Bret Hart here. I'm a huge Joe fan, but even I know Joe could not beat Bret. Bret is the Excellence of Execution, he is a technical wrestler, a very technical wrestler. Joe is more of an agile brawler with a submission finisher.

Hart has the edge in this match easily, because submissions matches are about the technical moves, keeping your opponent grounded and singling out the part of the body that your submission move would focus on. Hart was very good at this, where as like I said Joe is an agile brawler, which works well for his character and submission, as he'll wear you down, get you short winded, and then attempt to choke you out.
__________________
credit to Theo Mays!
sendpm.gif
  #13  
Old 02-04-2010, 07:45 PM
Thriller Ant's Avatar
Thriller Ant Thriller Ant is offline
Beep Bop Boop
ROH Pure Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NXT Universe
Age: 28
Posts: 1,464
Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...Thriller Ant is being held back by Triple H...
Default

I'm going to need some convincing on this one. Bret is one of the best of all time, but Joe is a beast. I'm leaning toward Joe, not only because of how big and powerful he is, but also because Joe is a brawler and a Submission Match is no-DQ. I could easily see Joe beat the shit out of Hart with weapons and kicks before choking him out just as easily as I could see Joe tapping to the Sharpshooter. Like I said, I'm leaning toward Joe, but I can be convinced otherwise.
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #14  
Old 02-05-2010, 07:02 PM
Leafy's Avatar
Leafy Leafy is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Age: 22
Posts: 285
Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...Leafy is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
Goldberg retired him because he was an inexperienced, unsafe worker. It was more the fact that Hart kept wrestling after Goldberg gave him the concussion and not the concussion itself.
So Hart's idiocy cost him his career. That's good. I'm glad the "most trained wrestler" doesn't know when he's injured. Maybe Joe can break his leg and he'll still try to wrestle.

Quote:
How about UFC Hall of Famer Ken Shamrock. Is he good enough for you? Bret and the Hart Foundation had a nice little feud with him.
The same Shamrock who DQ's himself out of his own stupidity? Joe is smarter than Ken and his MMA background is one of his many attributes.


Quote:
He had the title for a couple months, but that was a year before this Monster's Ball match you are speaking of took place. Raven at that point was not a main eventer. Even if he was it is still not nearly as impressive as defeating Chris Benoit and Sting in the same night. With both wins coming by submission.
So a year later and Raven becomes a useless fighter? He still faced the same Raven. He wasn't a main eventer because of the flow of new talent going into TNA at the time.

Quote:
I don't care if Joe could cure cancer, he isn't going to beat Bret Hart. Bret is a wrestling legend. Samoa Joe is very good, but he isn't on Bret's level. It would be a great match but Bret wins.
Joe, I think, is a future legend. They didn't call him a legend during his prime. You can only respect a wrestler with the moniker of legend until after his prime. Just because he's retired doesn't add any more talent to his career or makes it better. Hart is a legend but Joe is better and the rules of this match let him beat Hart.
sendpm.gif
  #15  
Old 02-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Big Sexy's Avatar
Big Sexy Big Sexy is offline
Deadly Rap Cannibal
King of the Ring
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit
Age: 28
Posts: 3,212
Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...Big Sexy is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf 4 Dead View Post
So Hart's idiocy cost him his career. That's good. I'm glad the "most trained wrestler" doesn't know when he's injured. Maybe Joe can break his leg and he'll still try to wrestle.
Lol. It's not like he said "wow I have a severe concussion and I'm going to wrestle anyways." He didn't know at the time the severity of the injuries.


Quote:
The same Shamrock who DQ's himself out of his own stupidity? Joe is smarter than Ken and his MMA background is one of his many attributes.
You said Hart had never faced anyone with mma experience like Joe and obviously he has faced someone with a ton more experience.

Quote:
So a year later and Raven becomes a useless fighter? He still faced the same Raven. He wasn't a main eventer because of the flow of new talent going into TNA at the time.
First, I never said Raven was useless I just said he wasn't a main eventer at this point. And guys fall from the main event like that all the time. I'll give you the Great Khali as an example. He was the world champion in 2007 and then a year later he was doing the fucking kiss cam and losing matches to Dolph Ziggler.

Quote:
Joe, I think, is a future legend. They didn't call him a legend during his prime. You can only respect a wrestler with the moniker of legend until after his prime. Just because he's retired doesn't add any more talent to his career or makes it better. Hart is a legend but Joe is better and the rules of this match let him beat Hart.
Joe is a ONE time world champion in a promotion that has always been #2 to the WWE and that one reign wasn't very impressive. Bret has beaten a number of guys that are better then Samoa Joe. There also isn't anything that Joe brings to the table that Hart hasn't seen before. Joe just isn't good enough to beat Bret.
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #16  
Old 02-05-2010, 07:37 PM
Tastycles's Avatar
Tastycles Tastycles is offline
Turn Bayley heel
TNA Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Various sofa beds in London
Age: 29
Posts: 3,866
Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...Tastycles is an Intercontinental Champion...
Send a message via MSN to Tastycles
Default

Bret Hart, easily. Joe has wrestled in TNA, but I don't think he's made any of the top dogs there tap out. Hart has pretty much never given up, and he has beaten countless men bigger than him in a submission match, as well as having beaten multiple submission specialists. To suggest that because Samoa Joe has beaten a bunch of spot monkeys he is better is a fucking joke. Owen Hart, Sean Waltman and Brian Pillman pretty much introduced lucha libre to the USA and Hart beat them all, not that that is relevant at all.

Bret Has beaten wrestlers more powerful than himself, and that is all Joe has going into this match. Hart can soak up punishment like no other, and that is pretty much all Joe does. The number of moves Joe has is irrelevant becasue a) Hart probably had more and b) Hart made a career of turning other people's holds into sharpshooters.
__________________


WrestleZone Tournament, 2015
sendpm.gif
  #17  
Old 02-07-2010, 11:32 PM
NWODXRULES NWODXRULES is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
NWODXRULES is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I went with Bret Hart. He's beaten better power house wrestlers, technical wrestlers and high flyers than Samoa Joe. Owen Hart, Ric Flair, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Undertaker, Kevin Nash, and Goldberg all come to mind. I have no doubt that Bret knows more submissions than Joe and could counter most submissions moves Joe would do. As others have mentioned Bret has never tapped out and I believe Joe tapped out to Angle's ankle lock. Honestly if Hart could beat Angle in a submission match there's no doubt he would beat Samoa Joe in a submission match.
sendpm.gif
  #18  
Old 02-10-2010, 10:19 AM
klunderbunker's Avatar
klunderbunker klunderbunker is offline
Clog Dancing on the Cobblestones
Wrestlezone Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Posts: 17,770
klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...klunderbunker is a World Heavyweight Champion...and is being held down by Triple H...
Default

Can you picture Joe winning via submission? Neither can I.

There are few truths to wrestling, but one of them is this: if Stu Hart trained you, you could freaking wrestle. Now, how good do you think a son of Stu's is? This is BRET FREAKING HART. I mean think about it. Has he ever tapped? Joe has. Bret knows more ways to get the Sharpshooter on than anyone I've ever seen. Joe makes one mistake and he's done, period. Bret will make very few mistakes and will get the win here.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by klunderbunker
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by klunderbunker
I am
Quote:
Originally Posted by klunderbunker
in fact
Quote:
Originally Posted by klunderbunker
better than you.
sendpm.gif
  #19  
Old 02-10-2010, 01:40 PM
Mr. TM's Avatar
Mr. TM Mr. TM is offline
Throwing a tantrum
King of the Ring
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 30
Posts: 3,115
Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...Mr. TM scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default



Yes, that is Samoa Joe tapping out to an old, worn out Kurt Angle. The same Kurt Angle who has tapped six times before in a match against Chris Benoit. Bret Hart is leagues above Benoit, who is better than Angle, who in his weakened form, is better than Joe. Joe is only the submission machine when he is beating up guys no where close to Bret Hart's league.
__________________
sendpm.gif
  #20  
Old 02-10-2010, 02:54 PM
Supernova's Avatar
Supernova Supernova is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 90
Supernova is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

This is so obvious, anyone voting for Joe is either a massive fan of his or has over thought this match up way too much. Hart is the submissions master, whereas Joe is in name only. I can't remember the last time he beat a big name guy via submission. Hart has beaten some of the best by submission because he too is one of the all time greats. Joe is good but that's it. Hart via sharpshooter.
__________________
sendpm.gif
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices