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  #11  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipswichicon80 View Post
Unfortunately to burst the bubble, Christian would of never held a world title if Edge hadn't retired.
True. The only correct thing in your post.Christian is over. What in 2 days he didn't sell PPV's and draw money?Like Orton draws money? Listen to the fans react to Christian.Then listen to how they react to Orton.Christian can draw money he just needs a chance.The problem is WWE nowadays is too spineless to take a chance.
True

Christian is over but not over enough to carry the company and WWE doesn't believe in him as a main player, as a hard worker yes but not enough to put the company on his back. Orton was moved over to Smackdown to take over from Undertaker as a leader

He was a transitional champ to give an Edge/Christian final moment, nothing more. Though as they said on CSR it wouldn't have killed them to let him keep the belt for a month. 1 title defense is a bit rough but he should be thankfull he was even given the notch in history

Doesn't matter if we like it or not, personally i don't and he shoulda got atleast 1 PPV to defend at but that's what they have dictated.

One thing though i think you failed to notice. They cheered him when he won and when he was making his voctory speech on Smackdown, but when he lost how much support did he get after Orton left? Sweet F*all, the arena was quiet as Christian was left by himself, that sais it all.
  #12  
Old 05-08-2011, 08:09 AM
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when a guy like Khali who has without a doubt the shittiest wrestling abilities of all time can hold the world title for 2 months, I am baffled Christian with much more mic skill and ring ability cant do the same thing. Hell Dolph Ziggler technically held the title for 1 day, but Christian cant hold it longer? What about Benoit? I'm not saying Christian is even in Benoits league, but Christian also has mic skills that Benoit couldnt dream of. If Benoit could hold it for almost 5 months why cant Christian hold for it a month? And damn, even back then when Benoit had to compete with Triple H at his prime, Brock Lesnar, and Kurt Angle who all had much more to offer in terms of marketability. I guess Christian is this generations Benoit because they fed him to Orton
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2011, 08:10 AM
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I don't think the top guy necessarily HAS to be the champ, but in this case I think it was just a matter of establishing the status quo and setting up the new Smackdown for the summer storylines. Minus Christian and Layla, every wrestler in action was new to the roster. (Not counting Chavo's commentary) Christian's win was really just the conclusion to the storyline with ADR and Edge, just like most of Extreme Rules was fued-enders in order to proceed with a fresh start going into the summer.
Also, summer is typically a bad time for PPV's and TV in general, so it makes sense to have the top two draws as champ.
Besides, who doesn't want to see a title feud between Cody Rhodes and Randy Orton at this point?
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:20 AM
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I do not buy into this excuse one bit. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that makes no sense upon further examination. As many have pointed out here that if this was true then Cena would ALWAYS be champ. That may be a bad example going forward this year but it is pretty clear last year WWE went out of their way to do something different with Cena because people were tired of that. Interestingly enough one of the main people WWE turned to was Orton. Equally interesting nothing really came of it. Orton seems to get some good pops but he has been given chance after chance to go to that superstar level and he has never made it. Even from a common sense standpoint in theory the easiest person to command attention without a title would be this "#1 guy." So why would you immediately have this huge need for him to have to have the title? It just doesn't make sense.

WWE views Orton as their number 1 there but that doesn't mean it is obviously true or the right thing to do. I did not find this whole thing surprising because that is how WWE does things (pick a guy and ride him until the sheep accept him and everyone else be damned) but that does not make it right like these holier than thou apologists are claiming. Unless Orton pitches a fit he is curtain jerking on big shows recently. This is after he had to take a backseat on RAW where he failed to reach that next level. If anything the obvious reason they did this is to not piss him off anymore than he already probably is from being sent further into the backseat by going to the B show. They did not do it because it was "right." That idea is retarded.

Orton isn't a draw. He is just the guy they have invested the most in.
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:36 AM
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Just because you are the top guy in the company does not mean that you have to hold the title. There was absolutely no reason why Christian should have lost the world title so soon. Christian has just as many supporters as Orton. The WWE should have atleast waited until the ppv for Christian to lose the title. Randy Orton vs. Christian in a main event World title match sounds pretty awesome to me.

Both Randy Orton and John Cena now hold the world titles. Vince seems to consider them the top guys of the company, and I understand that, but that does not mean that they have to hog the titles. Orton and Cena are guys who will always be big stars and they will attract viewers just as much without a title as they would with one. Orton is a cool guy and I respect Cena, but this is not the Hulk Hogan days. Not all of us want to see the same two or three guys in the spotlight.

I do agree that Christian would have never won the world title if Edge had not retired. I don't even care how he won it though, he won it and he needed to hang on to it for a while. Christian has many fans and he would be a draw. Besides, he could have always been built up more to make him an even bigger name.
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shattered dreams View Post
I do not buy into this excuse one bit. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that makes no sense upon further examination. As many have pointed out here that if this was true then Cena would ALWAYS be champ. That may be a bad example going forward this year but it is pretty clear last year WWE went out of their way to do something different with Cena because people were tired of that. Interestingly enough one of the main people WWE turned to was Orton. Equally interesting nothing really came of it. Orton seems to get some good pops
Good pops? Actually, they're through the roof. His pops are as loud as Cena's, without the booing.

Do you even watch? I was under the impression you didn't watch WWE programs.

Quote:
but he has been given chance after chance to go to that superstar level and he has never made it.
Actually, this is his first real opportunity. As you said, WWE pushes who they want on top. Not saying Cena doesn't belong there, because he does. However, being under Cena, on Raw, wasn't an opportunity to rise to Cena's level. He was as over as he was going to get. Orton did all he could on Raw, seeing Vince was never going to make Cena take a backseat to Randy, no matter what.

Quote:
Even from a common sense standpoint in theory the easiest person to command attention without a title would be this "#1 guy." So why would you immediately have this huge need for him to have to have the title? It just doesn't make sense.
If Orton proceeds to run through guys like Mark Henry and The Great Khali, and Christian goes on to feud with, I don't know, Cody Rhodes or Wade Barrett, then yes, it was for nothing. That wouldn't make sense. However, this isn't even close to being over with. This could easily lead to a Christian heel turn, an Orton/Christian feud for the title, etc. If it goes the other way, with Christian being buried, I'm with you. But we don't really know anything yet. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's quite simple.

Quote:
WWE views Orton as their number 1 there but that doesn't mean it is obviously true or the right thing to do. I did not find this whole thing surprising because that is how WWE does things (pick a guy and ride him until the sheep accept him and everyone else be damned) but that does not make it right like these holier than thou apologists are claiming.
Really? Huh. For some odd, crazy reason, I was under the impression that the fans did choose Orton. They cheered for him while he was a heel, and turned him into a face. The fans did this, not Vince.

Quote:
Unless Orton pitches a fit he is curtain jerking on big shows recently. This is after he had to take a backseat on RAW where he failed to reach that next level.
Failed? Vince has picked John Cena, end of story. Again, I'm not saying it isn't the right move, but, Orton is certainly over enough to be a top guy, or the top guy (if Cena weren't around).

Quote:
If anything the obvious reason they did this is to not piss him off anymore than he already probably is from being sent further into the backseat by going to the B show.
Not sure, never can be, but I'm guessing Orton is quite happy on Smackdown, due to no longer taking a backseat to Cena. I think that makes more sense than what you've proposed.

Quote:
They did not do it because it was "right." That idea is retarded.
You're right, that's not why they did it. Actually, maybe it is. Point? We do not know yet. It's been less than two days since it happened, so no one, yourself included, knows what's happening.

Quote:
Orton isn't a draw. He is just the guy they have invested the most in.
What exactly did they invest in Orton? He rode shotgun to John Cena for the past year, even as Champion. On Raw, they invested nothing in him. He was given limited screen time, shit storylines, and garbage opponents (up until CM Punk). He didn't even headline his own title reign, despite insane fan reactions. Seriously, do you even know what you're getting at here?
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2011, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipswichicon80 View Post
The problem is WWE nowadays is too spineless to take a chance.
Thank the lord, someone agrees with me. I have been saying this for months. WWE are too spineless to take chances. Look, they said he can't carry a show or boost PPV numbers. But, wait, didn't you see the reaction of the people when Christian won the World Heavyweight Championship? They loved it. People have been nagging you, WWE, for years about Christian winning the top prize, yet, you don't do it. Surely, if people are nagging you to do something, doesn't that mean they want to see it? He is very, very popular and yet you think it will do nothing!

If the number 1 guy is supposed to be champion then John Cena would've held the title since 2005. Christian deserves it, Swagger deserves it, Ziggler deserves it, hell, Big Dick Johnson deserves it! Stop what you are doing WWE and instead of doing ridiculous things, do the things people want and you may just get a boost in PPV buys, more fans and get back to the position you were in 10 years ago (when I mean 10 years ago, I'm not saying TNA is any competition).

Christian = Champion
Ziggler = Champion
Swagger = Champion
DiBiase = Champion
Rhodes = Champion (And no, not Goldust)
Ryder = Champion

These are a few of WWE's greatest young talent who people are dying to see have a chance and want to see them as WWE Champion or World Heavyweight Champion. Evan Bourne, people love him. Do something. Some people actually care about Mark Henry, do something. He's won two championships in 12 years. WTF?

Please Vince, do something different! Take a chance!

Last edited by The Perfect Max : 05-08-2011 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Spelling errors and missing words
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  #18  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:15 AM
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How long are people going to keep whining about Christian? Get over it! These are all story lines! Hate to borrow a line from Vince Russo, but the belts are props folks. They don't mean anything to you any more because they're not on the people you want them on. If they put the belt on Masters or Kidd, then all of a sudden they mean something again, right? Listen, for those people who are to "smart" to deal with WWE's PG kids entertainment, grow up, because it is PG kids entertainment, they're creating super heroes and super villains for the kids. I mean cmon whatre expecting at this point? Its like beating a dead horse at this point.
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  #19  
Old 05-08-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Nick Dudley View Post
Good pops? Actually, they're through the roof. His pops are as loud as Cena's, without the booing.

Do you even watch? I was under the impression you didn't watch WWE programs.
I watched a few things in the wrestlemania season and I meant that as a compliment to the reaction he got, at least from live crowds. Although if that was all we judged talent by then Diesel is the most over person in the company.

Quote:
Actually, this is his first real opportunity. As you said, WWE pushes who they want on top. Not saying Cena doesn't belong there, because he does. However, being under Cena, on Raw, wasn't an opportunity to rise to Cena's level. He was as over as he was going to get. Orton did all he could on Raw, seeing Vince was never going to make Cena take a backseat to Randy, no matter what.
Do you really believe this is his first real opportunity? 8 prior championship reigns totaling around 450 days almost all with the WWE title. That is more than Shawn Michaels, the Rock or Kurt Angle got and Orton has done it in an era without much in the way of other stars in his way to hold the top spots. 2009-2010 Orton held the title about 30% of the available days.

You act like there can be only one person on a high level. That wasn't true through most of wrestling history, why is it now?

Quote:
If Orton proceeds to run through guys like Mark Henry and The Great Khali, and Christian goes on to feud with, I don't know, Cody Rhodes or Wade Barrett, then yes, it was for nothing. That wouldn't make sense. However, this isn't even close to being over with. This could easily lead to a Christian heel turn, an Orton/Christian feud for the title, etc. If it goes the other way, with Christian being buried, I'm with you. But we don't really know anything yet. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It's quite simple.
No, it is easy to understand but irrelevant. If they are going to feud why book Orton to win now and not a week earlier? If Orton is the obvious number 1 that must have the title why did WWE less than a week earlier determine that actually it was better to have Orton open the PPV and Christian win the title? Not enough changed. The emotion of the moment and the Edge stuff is still fresh.

Quote:
Really? Huh. For some odd, crazy reason, I was under the impression that the fans did choose Orton. They cheered for him while he was a heel, and turned him into a face. The fans did this, not Vince.
No. This is one of the great myths wrestling fans like to tell themselves. Vince tells the fans what to think. He is great at jedi mind tricks.

Quote:
Failed? Vince has picked John Cena, end of story. Again, I'm not saying it isn't the right move, but, Orton is certainly over enough to be a top guy, or the top guy (if Cena weren't around).
Sure he can be a top guy but he isn't on that superstar level. Thus, there is nothing obvious about him needing to immediately be champ.

Quote:
Not sure, never can be, but I'm guessing Orton is quite happy on Smackdown, due to no longer taking a backseat to Cena. I think that makes more sense than what you've proposed.
Orton being happy never makes sense. You really think he would be happy to lose to Christian on Smackdown? I highly doubt he would be happy to go to Smackdown not to be the Champion.

Quote:
You're right, that's not why they did it. Actually, maybe it is. Point? We do not know yet. It's been less than two days since it happened, so no one, yourself included, knows what's happening.
Like I said. People know what happened. It isn't about what happens going forward. If it is ok because Orton is the obvious number one why should they think anything other than Vince exploited the emotional allure of Christian and then threw it away once he got what he wanted?

Quote:
What exactly did they invest in Orton? He rode shotgun to John Cena for the past year, even as Champion. On Raw, they invested nothing in him. He was given limited screen time, shit storylines, and garbage opponents (up until CM Punk). He didn't even headline his own title reign, despite insane fan reactions. Seriously, do you even know what you're getting at here?
You really think they never tried to make Orton a star? Especially over the last year? How much external help does the guy need to make it? That is basically what I am taking issue with. Plenty of the guys with "it" got over to a larger extent with substantially less company backing.
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  #20  
Old 05-08-2011, 12:08 PM
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"But he's the top guy!" I think I got what I wanted. To expose some hypocrisy. Goody me. See, I painted the OP with all sorts of fancy gibberish to see who would misread and start saying this was just about Orton getting the title too fast. Orton got the belt on a whim. No story, no nothing. While Christian was built up. People love to claim WWE's decision's are intelligent no matter what and never stop to think if the reason's are far deeper than "because he's the top guy". You trying to tell me Sheamus, Jack Swagger and Brock Lesnar were top guys when they were champions? And if they got their chance, why couldn't guys like Dolph Ziggler and Christian? There is no business decision. It is a political one. Quit pretending this is about the ratings. Quit pretending this is about a smart business move. And quit pretending this is for the good of the company. Orton is #1? Great. John Cena has been #1 for ages. He just won back the title after a 10 month hiatus. Let me be a little clearer. You. Are. A. Hypocrite. Thank you.
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