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  #21  
Old 10-27-2017, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Da Prophet View Post
I'd rather see a great match four times a year than a crappy one every single month. Quality over quantity, thanks.
I agree and so would I but you have to admit that neither one of the champions that we have put on stellar matches this year. Mahal is boring and Lesnar (other than the match with Joe and possibly Strowman), hasn't exactly been fantastic either. Considering he only shows up every once in awhile, you would think that his matches wouldn't be suplex, suplex, suplex, suplex, F5, suplex and a final F5. His opponents other than Joe weren't allowed to get much offense in.

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Originally Posted by Da Prophet View Post
WWE don't care about you buying PPVs.

They haven't since they started the Network. Your whole argument doesn't work. People are paying for the entire WWE library with the new PPVs as a huge feature. It doesn't matter when Brock defends because your audience has a bunch of original programming and every WWE PPV ever to watch with the incentive of staying subscribed to the Network being cheaper than ordering each individual Brock Lesnar PPV.
That point would be valid if they didn't use PPV's to sell the network. And because they do use them, it's a really crappy excuse to put on poor ones. Also take into consideration that RAW and SD Live are used as the run up to said PPV's, so if the WWE doesn't care about PPV's, then why bother watching any WWE product at all. The shows on the US network and PPV's on the WWE network go hand in hand.

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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
I get that we are in 2017 now not in the 80's yet their a lot of similarities between that era and today's era. First, while viewer's are important for wwe, they go by who's over with th live crowd just like they did back then. Lesnar draws crowd in the arena, he will always draw crowds and having him as champion even if he's just part time as help te title tremendously after the awful booking of it with owens last year. The title needed a rehab and lesnar gave it that.
I see what you are saying but you are forgetting that Lesnar isn't advertised for a lot of the shows until the week before. Tickets for these shows are sold months in advance, so while fans can hope that they will see Lesnar they aren't guaranteed to. So yea shows that he's advertised for months in advance he will draw people in, but that isn't always the case.

Not only that, he doesn't defend the title or even wrestle on free TV if you want. He only actually comes to play when a PPV rolls around, and sometimes not even then.
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
But at the same point, while they want fans to subscribe to the network fto watch the PPV, they really don't care if you watch every PPV. We are living in a new era where their so much content available that you can pick and choose what you want.

I'm one of the lucky one that got the network as a actually cable network. Last week TLC show didn't interest me even at all even with all the change, you could have put lesnar on the card and I would have skip it anyway. So I pvr it and watch the part that seem interesting later on.

The point I'm making is that being the champion of a brand doesn't mean as much as it use to. Now you can have a champion not show up on every b- shows and it won't make a difference because they still get the same number of suscribers either way.
They been stuck at 1.5 millions subscribers for a while now and I don't see this number changing anytime soon even if you take the belt off Lesnar and on to somebody else. The fact is fans in the arena still pops big for lesnar when he shows up with the belt and that's what important in the end. Same goes for jinder, fans still boo the hell out of him in the arena and that's what's important for them for now.
That's not what I'm saying. Lesnar does get pops. Jinder does get boos.

All I'm telling is my perspective. If I want to see a PPV then I would like the main event to be a match for the top Championship. That's what I'm saying. Be it Lesnar or anyone. Defending the title 3 times in 6 months isn't what I want a champion to do. Since April, even IWGP World Heavyweight Champion Kazuchika Okada has defended his title more than Brock Lesnar without any weekly programming like Raw to go through. So why should I watch a RAW PPV without the top champion? Plus, if WWE doesn’t care to give me the best, I would rather stop giving them more chances. Like I stopped giving Jinder Mahal any more chances.
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2017, 08:02 AM
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Look at Heyman promo on Monday. It makes you interested in a match and you want ginger Indian and his helping elfs taken to Suplex City. It doesnt matter that Brock is not defending, he looks like a big deal and is. And one of the things that allows him that is that he is not there every week taking "accidental losses" so his opponent would look good with 50-50 booking and doing "hot potato" with that title so him and his opponent would be 3 times Champions by the end of year. All Universal Champions include:

Balor 1 day reign
Owens transitional reign because Balor was injured where he defended it in same maner Mahal does now only he had Jericho instead of sing-along brothers and lost it to Goldberg in 20 seconds
Goldberg reign where he won it and lost it to Lesnar at Mania

So, in a way Lesnar reign there is kinda improvement because if you consider his reign bad what can you tell about previous ones?

Mahal does nothing for Championship. He doesnt have Heyman or other mouthpiece and is bad at promos at his own, his ring work is subpar and doesnt bring anyone there who would want to watch him unless you consider his "great heel work" that everyone wants to see his ass kicked because he is unbearable.

So its not really a question who is worse, anyone who is not hellbent on how "we are not having fighting champion because it would be so much better" could just tell that by looking at any of their work so far.
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
That's not what I'm saying. Lesnar does get pops. Jinder does get boos.

All I'm telling is my perspective. If I want to see a PPV then I would like the main event to be a match for the top Championship. That's what I'm saying. Be it Lesnar or anyone. Defending the title 3 times in 6 months isn't what I want a champion to do. Since April, even IWGP World Heavyweight Champion Kazuchika Okada has defended his title more than Brock Lesnar without any weekly programming like Raw to go through. So why should I watch a RAW PPV without the top champion? Plus, if WWE doesn’t care to give me the best, I would rather stop giving them more chances. Like I stopped giving Jinder Mahal any more chances.
i completely agree with you on this, wjy should you continue to watch PPV if they don't give you the world title match on every show?

But my point is, where not in the PPV era anymore, where in the Network era so having the champion on every PPV doesn't matter as much as it once did. You don't want to watch a certain PPV don't watch it, you're still going to continue and pay you're network subscription anyway because you want to watch other stuff on the network so they got your money anyway. Look at my exemple, i didn't want to watch TLC live last week, so i PVR it and only watch what i wanted to watch and skip the rest. That what a lot of fans that got the network do know when a show isn't worth it. If they got the network like we have it in Canada then they just PVR the show and skip all the boring stuff, if you watch it on the over the top service, then same thing you just go and watch it later and watch the stuff you want to see out of the show. If you don'T want to see Jinder's match, don't watch it, skip it and just watch the stuff you want to watch.

That'S why i feel like champions don'T means as much to a multi millions dollar company as it once did. They can actually have a champion not defended his title on every b-shows and the fans that goes to the events won't mind as much and they already got as much network subscribers as they are going to get at this point of the year so who cares really if you watch a show like TLC or not because in the end, they still got you're money anyway.

The tv product suffers because they are more concern with the live presentation of the shows for the audience that are live at the arena. Until they lose, a whole lot of their viewing audience and the network subscribing number goes under a millions, they won't care as much about the fans that are watching at home. You can have Lesnar on every ppv and defend his title, but then he become just another guy with a championship. The fact that he'S a part timer, makes him a great attraction and makes the title match feel special because you're not getting trapped in the repetition of being force to have a title match on every show and personally, i look at it as a breath of fresh air because guys that normally wouldn't even get a chance of being in the main event of a PPV get that chance. If Lesnar was on every show defending the title, do you thing that guys like The Miz, Cesaro and Sheamus would ever get a chance to be in a main event of a PPV, Hell no. The fact that LEsnar wasn'T there for the TLC PPV gave them a shot at proving they belong in the main event pictures. It gave something fresh for the fans to watch as well.

I know some fans like to have a world title match on every show and it's o.k. but i rather have the title match means something instead of being force on the show because we need a title matchs which means that we get the same match multiple times because they don't have time in between PPV to creat a new challenger. But i guess i'm in the minority that actually like what going on with Lesnar and see the upside of this part time title defend.
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  #25  
Old 10-27-2017, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
i completely agree with you on this, wjy should you continue to watch PPV if they don't give you the world title match on every show?

But my point is, where not in the PPV era anymore, where in the Network era so having the champion on every PPV doesn't matter as much as it once did. You don't want to watch a certain PPV don't watch it, you're still going to continue and pay you're network subscription anyway because you want to watch other stuff on the network so they got your money anyway. Look at my exemple, i didn't want to watch TLC live last week, so i PVR it and only watch what i wanted to watch and skip the rest. That what a lot of fans that got the network do know when a show isn't worth it. If they got the network like we have it in Canada then they just PVR the show and skip all the boring stuff, if you watch it on the over the top service, then same thing you just go and watch it later and watch the stuff you want to see out of the show. If you don'T want to see Jinder's match, don't watch it, skip it and just watch the stuff you want to watch.

That'S why i feel like champions don'T means as much to a multi millions dollar company as it once did. They can actually have a champion not defended his title on every b-shows and the fans that goes to the events won't mind as much and they already got as much network subscribers as they are going to get at this point of the year so who cares really if you watch a show like TLC or not because in the end, they still got you're money anyway.

The tv product suffers because they are more concern with the live presentation of the shows for the audience that are live at the arena. Until they lose, a whole lot of their viewing audience and the network subscribing number goes under a millions, they won't care as much about the fans that are watching at home. You can have Lesnar on every ppv and defend his title, but then he become just another guy with a championship. The fact that he'S a part timer, makes him a great attraction and makes the title match feel special because you're not getting trapped in the repetition of being force to have a title match on every show and personally, i look at it as a breath of fresh air because guys that normally wouldn't even get a chance of being in the main event of a PPV get that chance. If Lesnar was on every show defending the title, do you thing that guys like The Miz, Cesaro and Sheamus would ever get a chance to be in a main event of a PPV, Hell no. The fact that LEsnar wasn'T there for the TLC PPV gave them a shot at proving they belong in the main event pictures. It gave something fresh for the fans to watch as well.

I know some fans like to have a world title match on every show and it's o.k. but i rather have the title match means something instead of being force on the show because we need a title matchs which means that we get the same match multiple times because they don't have time in between PPV to creat a new challenger. But i guess i'm in the minority that actually like what going on with Lesnar and see the upside of this part time title defend.
I understand what you're saying. But for me, PPV is a special event. And special event should include a World Title match. It's not like I'm asking for a World Title match at any RAW or Smackdown regular episode. But at least, when the special event of a certain brand takes place, I would like to see a match for the top title. Just see TLC. No Universal Championship defense. No InterContinental Championship defense. No Tag Team Championship defense. And it seemed like Raw's episode. World Title match is a major attraction in a PPV for me. Because the stakes are high.

Plus, we are in some good time as we can have plenty of great wrestling even without WWE. Bunch of options.
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  #26  
Old 10-28-2017, 12:24 AM
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Jinder. Just.. Jinder.

With Lesnar I still buy him as a special attraction, and it's exciting whenever he gets to wrestle. I'm just gonna say it, I don't mind it, at all, I'm still enjoying it. What sucks, however, is the feeling of a main champion lacking on RAW. The key to that is booking an extremely strong Intercontinental Title picture. While The Miz is pretty good, the booking part needs work.

Jinder Mahal is just the worst world champion I've seen this decade. Well, this century really, since the Arquette win was in 2000 which was technically still in the 20th Century. But as to why Jinder is so bland as champion he really has nothing to offer, he looks totally out of place, no matter how fancy they try to make him out to be, other people in this thread have described it better than I can. To put the shit topping on this clusterfuck cake, we have great talent losing to him. Shinsuke Nakamura.. it still baffles me. It's like they have Freddie Mercury or Michael Jackson, and they fed him to Yoko Ono. Twice. Just.. fuck.

In the span of a year we went from AJ, Cena, Ambrose, Miz, Ziggler, Bliss, Becky all carrying the blue brand with Mauro Ranallo on commentary and Talking Smack to look forward to every week, all the way to the Jinder Mahal era. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

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  #27  
Old 10-28-2017, 02:19 AM
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Both runs are disastrous in their own way. One is insulting a Market's intelligence. The other should be making investors insanely pissed. Let us start with the, ahem, Maharajah. The only reasons why Jinder has the strap is because A) He is of Indian heritage, and B) he has the physique that VKM and Dunn snap their carrots. The problem is that WWE's booking has been absolutely destructive in the long term. First off, Jinder was a jobber, who did zippo in the Indies as compared to Drew McIntyre. Secondly, the people that lost to him should NEVER have been booked to lose to Jinder. Nakamura? Really? If they ride Jinder to Mania, all it will do is make the WWE Championship all but meaningless.

Lesnar's run is disastrous for another reason: WWE is actually pissing money away with him because of his limited schedule. What they SHOULD do is keep him off TV, and make him do the House shows defending the Universal Strap in the major cities and arenas, as well as the PPVs. They could sell out EVERY arena they go to for House shows if Brock Lesnar defends the belt. If you need to amend the contract, give him 3-5% of the House show gate on top of whatever else he is getting. Is it worth an extra $100K in ticket sales to give Lesnar $15-20K? Still 80K in profit. You could have Lesnar cut a promo on RAW advertising the match in whatever city the match will be in. Watch ticket and merch sales go up. So, why on Earth are they not doing this?

So, it is not an "either or". It is basically the same disastrous album with two sides. Side One is the Insulting of the Intelligence. Side B is Pissing Money Away.
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2017, 06:43 AM
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If the world or universal titles felt like a big deal on every shows I wouldn't mind seeing lesnar defend on every shows bt it's been a problem within wwe for a while now and it's even a bigger problem now with the brand split. Title matches don't feel special anymore. With jinder, it feel like we're just repeatinf the same match over and over again. It's not his fault really, he's just stuck on a brand with a lack of main event babyfaces so they have to do the multiple match scenario with him which makes the titles matches feel less special.

That was the problem when kevin owens had the universal title and their others like that lived through over the years. Ithat's why I loves lesnar's title reigns, because thoses titles matches don't feel repetitive and they feel like a big deal. If lesnar would have defended the title on each ppv, he's would have fell into the same trap that every champion before him and get the multiple title defenses with the same guy.

It would be one think if lesnar wouldn't beat his opponents clean everytime, then maybe I would be happy to see a rematch between let's say lesnar and strowman but since he beat him clean, what's the point really. It makes a title rematch pointless and that's kinda why jimder's title reigns is feeling so blah. He went from beating orton three times in the same matter to neating nakamura twice the same way and I'm guessig so that they can kill time he will beat aj styles the same way twice before finding a way to retain at elimination chamber and them lose to cena. That's pretty much the kevin owens scenario from last year and it felt boring then and feel boring now.

In the end, jinder had the worst booking as champion because of the lack or opponent for him. If you want to put a title match on each ppv, then you have to make them feel special each and every time which they don't do with their full time champion so in the end thieir the title just feels like another title on the brand and that's the real problem.
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:31 PM
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To those say that Brock's run is better because Brock is a legit draw but Jinder isn't.. please, don't confuse drawing ability with good championship material.

Hulk Hogan was a draw in 2002. HHH was the biggest draw from 2002 to 2005. Those reigns sucked though. It's like saying that you would be fine with Cena getting the belt and defending it every time he pops up or you'd be fine with Orton being a face champion. You wouldn't. And Cena would be doing a much better job and deliver much better matches than Lesnar and Orton, boring as he is, he would be there full time.

Well, Brock's matches suck and are boring, and he's not there full time. His win was predictable and his end is predictable. End of story. Not a good reign.

Plus, why are you attributing the anticipation of the Mahal vs Lesnar match to Lesnar alone? Sorry guys. In wrestling, it's the heel who sells the match. The heel builds up heat and when that heat reaches maximum, you bring the face to beat the crap out of them. That's also why Strowman vs Lesnar was a draw. Because Strowman had momentum going in, just like Mahal has momentum and REAL HEAT now.

Say that Mahal sucks all you want, but he's a better champion than Lesnar. End of story.
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