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  #11  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:41 PM
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I only shake hands with co-workers, both in and outside of the workplace.

People have different feelings towards certain social interactions which some find acceptable while other do not. Why risk it? Protect yourself and those around you, stick with a handshake, keeps everyone comfortable.

I was 17 when I got my first part-time job. I've never hugged another co-worker, I've said no to hugs when offered on my last day at a previous job. Not appropriate, in my opinion. Where I worked the isolated rooms all had massive glass panels so you could see straight through. That's what you need in the workplace. People have to be very careful, men and women have to take whatever steps to secure their own safety. Nobody should be in a situation where they are uncomfortable.

Last edited by Da Prophet : 12-07-2017 at 09:50 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:49 PM
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Oh for the love of God can we stop with this bullshit? Women can never fucking win here. We tell someone what happened straight away? "What were you wearing? Did you lead him on? Had you drank any alcohol? How many sexual partners have you had?"
Legitimate questions though. You can’t just have the solution, what was the problem? I’ve never been apart of a situation like this so I don’t know how it would make me feel if these questions were asked but if I’m saying something happened then I expect questions to be asked about before during and after.

I’m not having a go or anything, just wondering why these questions would be bad.

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This world is fucking shit if you are a woman who has been sexually assaulted or harassed, and you wonder why we don't come forward immediately.
Yeah I wouldn’t know how it feels again but this is what I think. Everyone knows there is monsters out there that can snap and do some fucked your things, ruin people’s life, so when a woman comes forward and people don’t believe her, it’s not because it’s the mans fault, but because woman make shit up and now its hard to believe the boy that cried wolf. The fact that the outcome will change a life completely doesn’t help. You just can’t go oh yep you’re guilty to proven innocent.

Like I said it’s never happened to me so I don’t know the actual process of what happens but how is the world “fucking shit if you have been assaulted or harassed”? Everyone who knows what happens will surely go out of there way to help you, sympathize with you and show empathy. Is it because everyone doesn’t automatically think it’s true? Man if I was the one being accused and it didn’t actually happen before but everyone thought I did then I would feel the exact same as the woman do, “what’s the point”.

How could the world help put more? There is constant advertisements, talks and whatever else to talk about these things, help make woman feel less vulnerable and come out more. Unless you do want every man to take the blame automatically but yeah what are some ways that people could help if it’s so fucking shit.

I hope this doesn’t come out as I’m sticking up for abusers because I’m not, if you’re a predator in anyway then i hate ya and I plan on stopping you one day but much like child predators, there is gotta be a reason for this so let’s get to the bottom and stop it.

Like Prophet said though just be super safe about things. I work at a school so the last thing I’m doing is being alone with a female student. It doesn’t even have to be her that could cause trouble, it could be someone saying something to their friend like “oh mr was with so n so” then that eventually gets out of context and goes to another teacher or whatever. I’m never going to put myself in that position (obviously regarding men and not people who get abused here).
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2017, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Khalifa View Post
Legitimate questions though. You can’t just have the solution, what was the problem? I’ve never been apart of a situation like this so I don’t know how it would make me feel if these questions were asked but if I’m saying something happened then I expect questions to be asked about before during and after.

I’m not having a go or anything, just wondering why these questions would be bad.
They are not legitimate questions - how does what I was wearing have anything to do with my being assaulted? The implication - literally and legally, in a court of law, let alone what others think or say privately - is that if a woman was wearing a short skirt, or had cleavage showing, that she somehow 'asked' for this to happen, that she 'wanted' it, that it wasn't really assault or harassment.

And the amount of CONSENSUAL sexual partners I have had have literally zero to do with sexual assault or harassment. What I choose to do with other consenting adults should mean nothing in a legal case against my attacker. Yet, that question is not only used in court, but again, used to imply a woman is lying, because 'she's had sex with X amount of men before, are we supposed to believe this one was unwanted?

'Did you lead him on?' is, again, used to victim blame. Did I accept the guy buying me a drink? Kiss him? Yes? So clearly I wanted sex, and everything I did or said afterwards - including making 'NO' very clear, didn't matter - I led him on, I made him thing sex was ok, so what happened wasn't really rape, or his fault - it was mine.

That is the problem with those questions, and that is why so few women want to come forward and report those assaults - who's going to believe us?



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Yeah I wouldn’t know how it feels again but this is what I think. Everyone knows there is monsters out there that can snap and do some fucked your things, ruin people’s life, so when a woman comes forward and people don’t believe her, it’s not because it’s the mans fault, but because woman make shit up and now its hard to believe the boy that cried wolf. The fact that the outcome will change a life completely doesn’t help. You just can’t go oh yep you’re guilty to proven innocent.
Who 'cried wolf'? In an individual case, as in, you know someone, or the police know someone who has been proven to lie several times, maybe. Women, in general, have not 'cried wolf'. If anything, the current climate is showing us how few women have actually said this happened at all, as opposed to lying.

And I'm not dealing with 'the outcome will change a life completely' - Rape and sexual harassment 'change a life completely' - yet somehow no one seems to be thinking about that.


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Like I said it’s never happened to me so I don’t know the actual process of what happens but how is the world “fucking shit if you have been assaulted or harassed”? Everyone who knows what happens will surely go out of there way to help you, sympathize with you and show empathy. Is it because everyone doesn’t automatically think it’s true? Man if I was the one being accused and it didn’t actually happen before but everyone thought I did then I would feel the exact same as the woman do, “what’s the point”.
There are posts in this very thread that show that no, the world does not automatically 'go out of their way to help you, sympathize with you and show emapthy'. The overwhelming majority, both in law enforcement and online, is to blame the victim, usually a woman. So, after going through a traumatic assault, then being brave enough to relive your story several times to the police, answer awful questions about your personal life, go through a grueling medical examination, people literally do not believe you, or imply you were to blame for what happened. I assure you, it's shit.

Your automatic reponse seems to be 'women lie'. They do, but not as much as men sexually harass and assault. The very OP of this post thinks it's ok to kiss women you work with - it's not. Think about this; how many women do you know who have been assaulted, or suffered some kind of harassment? I don't know about you specifically, but every man I have asked has said they know at least a few women this has happened to. Yet, when I asked how many sexual predators they know, how many men they know who kiss people against their will, sexually assault women, make inappropriate remarks, grope or fondle them at bars etc - every man I've asked says none. The numbers do not add up.

And no, it's not about automatically sending a man to prison on the word of a woman. We all know the justice system does not work that way. But I find it funny how now men are supposed to change their behaviour, maybe make concessions such as you say, not being alone with a female student, ensuring they don't say or do anything deemed as inappropriate in order to not be falsely accused, there's a huge male outcry. You're only doing what we've been expected to do to not get assaulted for decades, if not more.
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  #14  
Old 12-08-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HBK-aholic View Post
They are not legitimate questions - how does what I was wearing have anything to do with my being assaulted? The implication - literally and legally, in a court of law, let alone what others think or say privately - is that if a woman was wearing a short skirt, or had cleavage showing, that she somehow 'asked' for this to happen, that she 'wanted' it, that it wasn't really assault or harassment.
Yep fair call. Should’ve been a bit more clear. Of course what you’re wearing doesn’t matter in terms of assault. Have you had any alcohol is a good question. I’m not sure who asks how many sexual partners you’ve had. Weird question to ask. Maybe it’s in term of have you had sex like once and this was just a different experience you’re not use to etc. Maybe same with the clothing, were you wearing some sexy and then changed your mind way half way through. Helps get a better understanding. Probably inappropriate but if someone is lying then it could help solve the case. Guy says he’s guilty, investigators asks what she was wearing, turns out to be lingerie and it was going to lead to something more but the girl changed her mind or whatever. Probably happens in 1 out of a million cases but I’d be glad if I was that one case.


[quote] That is the problem with those questions, and that is why so few women want to come forward and report those assaults - who's going to believe us? [quote]

Yep okay so maybe the questions aren’t the most suitable but I do believe in knowing what was going on before is vital. Sexual assault is not okay so I don’t mean it’s vital in that way but it’s vital information to know what happened so we can punish the fucked person. Id find it discouraging if It seemed like I wasn’t being believed as well but if it puts away the bad guy then I think I would go through that situation. Again I never been through this so I wouldn’t know but yeah that’s just how I’m thinking at the moment.



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Who 'cried wolf'? In an individual case, as in, you know someone, or the police know someone who has been proven to lie several times, maybe. Women, in general, have not 'cried wolf'. If anything, the current climate is showing us how few women have actually said this happened at all, as opposed to lying.
Well a woman would to have to of lied at one point in one of these situations for eventually people to not believe one of stories/actions that were happening. It doesn’t matter how many times someone has lied about it, if t happens once it means you have to account for every time. Obviously it’s like a 99% - 1% ratio of the person actually lying but it doesn’t mean I’m not going to try and find out facts first and then make my decision.

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And I'm not dealing with 'the outcome will change a life completely' - Rape and sexual harassment 'change a life completely' - yet somehow no one seems to be thinking about that.
I’ve probably taken this out of context but man I couldn’t even imagine what rape would do to me. It be very hard to cope that’s for sure but the fact of the matter is guys have gone to jail for sexual assault because a lady lied about it and that changed peoples life probably just as much because chances are likely it’s the only option that affects more than one person (not that the actual situation is worse). Could you imagine going to jail because a 13 year old girl said you raped her which you didn’t and now every guy in prison thinks you a child pedo, which is probably the worst thing you can be. Of course these situations are highly unlikely but damn don’t get pissed off because questions are asked.

Bit harsh to say because I don’t know what that feelings like and it probably does turn people off but men have to be protected in some way as well. Asking inappropriate questions isn’t the way to go but asking for details could be the reason the guy you busted goes to jail, which is a win isn’t it?



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There are posts in this very thread that show that no, the world does not automatically 'go out of their way to help you, sympathize with you and show emapthy'. The overwhelming majority, both in law enforcement and online, is to blame the victim, usually a woman. So, after going through a traumatic assault, then being brave enough to relive your story several times to the police, answer awful questions about your personal life, go through a grueling medical examination, people literally do not believe you, or imply you were to blame for what happened. I assure you, it's shit.
Navi is a lady herself and asked what I thought is a good question. I’m assuming she hasn’t either, so we have never been through that situation and we’re asking why don’t you come out sooner and it’s a reason to be pissed off and assume she isn’t on the victims side? I should really be looking this up but weren’t there woman that came out and said Cosby came out and harassed/assaulted them that were proven to be liars or dismissed quite quickly. Perfect example to ask why you didn’t come out sooner (to the liars).

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Your automatic reponse seems to be 'women lie'. They do,
That’s exactly right, so to think that we should take everything as the truth is just ridiculous. Like I said that’s why you need to ask questions to find out the bottom of this.

Different situation so not the same but it’s the only traumatic one I can think of at the moment. Someone rings up and says their spouse has committed suicide, you going to believe it straight away or think maybe there could be a slight chance that it was a murder so maybe questions should be asked.




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Think about this; how many women do you know who have been assaulted, or suffered some kind of harassment? I don't know about you specifically, but every man I have asked has said they know at least a few women this has happened to.Yet, when I asked how many sexual predators they know, how many men they know who kiss people against their will, sexually assault women, make inappropriate remarks, grope or fondle them at bars etc - every man I've asked says none. The numbers do not add up.
Definitely an interesting spin to it and I agree, the numbers don’t add up. It could suggest there are a lot of first time offenders and they get thrown away. Usually you aren’t unaware unless you are in or a position in power or have been told directly by the person that someone has done something bad and chances are you wouldn’t want people knowing about that so that’s why the numbers could be lower.

Or you could look at it like this, how many addicts do you know? Like people who are telling you they are addicted and are not going to do anything about it. Now how many recovering/recovered (you can never be recovered though really but I mean for a long duration of time) addicts do you know? Chances are a lot more and that’s because people aren’t going to tel you the bad unless you find it out yourself.

You do make a good point but.

Quote:
And no, it's not about automatically sending a man to prison on the word of a woman. We all know the justice system does not work that way. But I find it funny how now men are supposed to change their behaviour, maybe make concessions such as you say, not being alone with a female student, ensuring they don't say or do anything deemed as inappropriate in order to not be falsely accused, there's a huge male outcry. You're only doing what we've been expected to do to not get assaulted for decades, if not more.
You’re making it sound like every man is a predator. I know there are guys out there that are messed up, so I’m going to do everything in my power to not have any association with them or even be looked at for 1 second as one of them. A huge male outcry maybe what it is (which I don’t agree with) but just like we can’t with the woman, we can’t automatically dismiss something because someone said something. For a man to be worried about something that legitimately happens even if it is at such a small, tiny, mini total of all sexual assault/harassment cases, is not funny or shouldn’t be looked at as a negative.

I’m not in the right mind frame at the moment (Friday night here) so I could have that paragraph totally wrong but I’m summarising it as you can’t believe now that men need/want to take these steps of ensuring they don’t get accused of something that will change their life forever (if they were innocent), that it’s ridiculous that thought process is even a though because we’ve (the woman) got it worse? Which i just don’t agree with.

Like I’ve said for the billionth time, I don’t know how I would actually be feeling because thankfully it’s never happened to me but why is it questions and not making you’re mind up until you have the facts are asked for anything else regarding law or just life events in general is okay but as soon as a woman gets hit, raped, assaulted whatever, standard procedure is just thrown out and then saying you they aren’t on your side basically making them an enemy in the process in your (not you but a general you) eyes.
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Last edited by Khalifa : 12-08-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2017, 09:55 AM
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[quote=Khalifa;5769511]Yep fair call. Shouldíve been a bit more clear. Of course what youíre wearing doesnít matter in terms of assault. Have you had any alcohol is a good question. Iím not sure who asks how many sexual partners youíve had. Weird question to ask. Maybe itís in term of have you had sex like once and this was just a different experience youíre not use to etc. Maybe same with the clothing, were you wearing some sexy and then changed your mind way half way through. Helps get a better understanding. Probably inappropriate but if someone is lying then it could help solve the case. Guy says heís guilty, investigators asks what she was wearing, turns out to be lingerie and it was going to lead to something more but the girl changed her mind or whatever. Probably happens in 1 out of a million cases but Iíd be glad if I was that one case.


[quote] That is the problem with those questions, and that is why so few women want to come forward and report those assaults - who's going to believe us?
Quote:

Yep okay so maybe the questions arenít the most suitable but I do believe in knowing what was going on before is vital. Sexual assault is not okay so I donít mean itís vital in that way but itís vital information to know what happened so we can punish the fucked person. Id find it discouraging if It seemed like I wasnít being believed as well but if it puts away the bad guy then I think I would go through that situation. Again I never been through this so I wouldnít know but yeah thatís just how Iím thinking at the moment.





Well a woman would to have to of lied at one point in one of these situations for eventually people to not believe one of stories/actions that were happening. It doesnít matter how many times someone has lied about it, if t happens once it means you have to account for every time. Obviously itís like a 99% - 1% ratio of the person actually lying but it doesnít mean Iím not going to try and find out facts first and then make my decision.



Iíve probably taken this out of context but man I couldnít even imagine what rape would do to me. It be very hard to cope thatís for sure but the fact of the matter is guys have gone to jail for sexual assault because a lady lied about it and that changed peoples life probably just as much because chances are likely itís the only option that affects more than one person (not that the actual situation is worse). Could you imagine going to jail because a 13 year old girl said you raped her which you didnít and now every guy in prison thinks you a child pedo, which is probably the worst thing you can be. Of course these situations are highly unlikely but damn donít get pissed off because questions are asked.

Bit harsh to say because I donít know what that feelings like and it probably does turn people off but men have to be protected in some way as well. Asking inappropriate questions isnít the way to go but asking for details could be the reason the guy you busted goes to jail, which is a win isnít it?





Navi is a lady herself and asked what I thought is a good question. Iím assuming she hasnít either, so we have never been through that situation and weíre asking why donít you come out sooner and itís a reason to be pissed off and assume she isnít on the victims side? I should really be looking this up but werenít there woman that came out and said Cosby came out and harassed/assaulted them that were proven to be liars or dismissed quite quickly. Perfect example to ask why you didnít come out sooner (to the liars).



Thatís exactly right, so to think that we should take everything as the truth is just ridiculous. Like I said thatís why you need to ask questions to find out the bottom of this.

Different situation so not the same but itís the only traumatic one I can think of at the moment. Someone rings up and says their spouse has committed suicide, you going to believe it straight away or think maybe there could be a slight chance that it was a murder so maybe questions should be asked.






Definitely an interesting spin to it and I agree, the numbers donít add up. It could suggest there are a lot of first time offenders and they get thrown away. Usually you arenít unaware unless you are in or a position in power or have been told directly by the person that someone has done something bad and chances are you wouldnít want people knowing about that so thatís why the numbers could be lower.

Or you could look at it like this, how many addicts do you know? Like people who are telling you they are addicted and are not going to do anything about it. Now how many recovering/recovered (you can never be recovered though really but I mean for a long duration of time) addicts do you know? Chances are a lot more and thatís because people arenít going to tel you the bad unless you find it out yourself.

You do make a good point but.



Youíre making it sound like every man is a predator. I know there are guys out there that are messed up, so Iím going to do everything in my power to not have any association with them or even be looked at for 1 second as one of them. A huge male outcry maybe what it is (which I donít agree with) but just like we canít with the woman, we canít automatically dismiss something because someone said something. For a man to be worried about something that legitimately happens even if it is at such a small, tiny, mini total of all sexual assault/harassment cases, is not funny or shouldnít be looked at as a negative.

Iím not in the right mind frame at the moment (Friday night here) so I could have that paragraph totally wrong but Iím summarising it as you canít believe now that men need/want to take these steps of ensuring they donít get accused of something that will change their life forever (if they were innocent), that itís ridiculous that thought process is even a though because weíve (the woman) got it worse? Which i just donít agree with.

Like Iíve said for the billionth time, I donít know how I would actually be feeling because thankfully itís never happened to me but why is it questions and not making youíre mind up until you have the facts are asked for anything else regarding law or just life events in general is okay but as soon as a woman gets hit, raped, assaulted whatever, standard procedure is just thrown out and then saying you they arenít on your side basically making them an enemy in the process in your (not you but a general you) eyes.
Dude, if you canít see that the type of questions that were brought up arenít helpful to the process of investigating a rape or sexual assault, then you are a part of the problem.

How or why should it matter what the girl in question was wearing? You could both be completely naked, in bed, condom on your dick, and if she says no then you stop. No amount or type of clothing is consent.

The only question of what was listed that should ever come into play is if the victim has had alcohol or some other mind altering substance. Even then it should only be used to try to make sure the victim wasnít forced into something while they were in an altered state of mind.

She wasnít trying to make it seem like all guys are predators, but two things there. One, the number of sexual assault criminals in skewed insanely toward men. Two, guys tend to have this bro code thing or whatever you want to call it where we tend to overlook when another guy, especially a friend, is being sexually aggressive. I used to hang out with this guy who once told me ďwhen I go to parties and there is a chance Iíll hook up with a girl I always make sure we are both buzzed so she canít say I raped her.Ē Like, bro thatís fucked up to admit and is still a sexual crime. I stopped hanging out with him shortly after that. A lot of guys probably have similar stories or know a guy who presses a little too hard on women and his friends just ignore it cause being a cock block to another guy is way worse then stopping a potential sexual assault before it happens.

And until you have been sexually abused, you donít get to ask why someone didnít come forward sooner. Response to sexual crimes is a joke when itís in regard to some average dude, As soon as itís a celebrity most people automatically assume you are only doing it for money. There is fear they could lose their job, lose their place in the industry, whatever. Not to mention, itís fucking awful to deal and come to terms with. When I was 9, I was raped by a camp consoler. I didnít speak a word of if until I was 20. For so long I simply wanted to forget it happened, to just ignore it. It took me ten years to come to terms with it and seven years later I still talk about it in therapy because I have nightmares. I have to explain to my own girlfriend, who I love more than I love myself, that touching my butt without her giving me a heads up first, freaks me out. So forgive someone whose first thought after being a victim isnít, I need to tell someone.

And no, you shouldnít be scared to be alone with a girl. Just keep your hands to yourself and be a decent human being and you wonít have to worry about anything.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Khalifa View Post
Yep fair call. Should’ve been a bit more clear. Of course what you’re wearing doesn’t matter in terms of assault. Have you had any alcohol is a good question. I’m not sure who asks how many sexual partners you’ve had. Weird question to ask. Maybe it’s in term of have you had sex like once and this was just a different experience you’re not use to etc.
Google shows several times this has been used against a woman - it's a genuine question asked. If a woman has had what society deems as too many sexual partners, the defence uses that against her. Which is ridiculous, but, again, explains why so many women don't choose to come forward. Who wants their sex life judged in a courtroom, when you're already vulnerable?

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Yep okay so maybe the questions aren’t the most suitable but I do believe in knowing what was going on before is vital. Sexual assault is not okay so I don’t mean it’s vital in that way but it’s vital information to know what happened so we can punish the fucked person. Id find it discouraging if It seemed like I wasn’t being believed as well but if it puts away the bad guy then I think I would go through that situation. Again I never been through this so I wouldn’t know but yeah that’s just how I’m thinking at the moment.
Knowing what happened is different to using innocent actions to victim blame. Like you've agreed - those questions aren't suitable, but moreso, how they're USED is not suitable. For example - asking if someone has been drinking - acceptable to ask in order to understand the testimony, whether any details may be foggy etc. Not ok to ask in order to say she wanted sexual contact because she was drunk.


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Could you imagine going to jail because a 13 year old girl said you raped her which you didn’t and now every guy in prison thinks you a child pedo, which is probably the worst thing you can be. Of course these situations are highly unlikely but damn don’t get pissed off because questions are asked.
Questions are asked. Questions are fine. Questions should be asked. But we ask the wrong questions for the wrong reasons, then wonder why no one comes forward? To be clear, I despise people who lie about this, and absolutely believe they should be in prison if found to be lying. I just don't believe it's even slightly close to the amount of genuine people coming forward, and certainly no where near as high as men want us to believe.

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Navi is a lady herself and asked what I thought is a good question. I’m assuming she hasn’t either, so we have never been through that situation and we’re asking why don’t you come out sooner and it’s a reason to be pissed off and assume she isn’t on the victims side?
It is a ridiculous question, asked only by those who haven't looked into it, or been in the situation. Honestly, a simple google explains this relatively well.

First, women are rarely believed, and don't want to go through what I explained upthread.

Second, many people don't actually like what sexual harassment is constituted as. In the Opening Post to this thread, SSJPhenom admits he doesn't think kissing a colleague is sexual harassment - it is, legally, and his colleague would be legally within their right to say so. But, in situations which may not be seen as 'that bad' or 'not even assault' - are people going to come forward? And, remember, the US voted for an admitted sexual predator to be POTUS, so forgive them if they don't believe they'll be taken seriously.

Third, they just want to forget what happened. There are many accounts of victims saying they felt the reporting and court case felt just as bad as the attack. Most people don't want to relive it over and over.

Fourth, in many cases the attacker is in a position of power. Whether it be teacher, boss, judge, parent, celebrity. Those people can very easily ensure you are not believed, that you don't get to work in your chosen field, that you will be humiliated, that everyone will hate you. They can make victims genuinely believe they are wrong, that what is happening to them is ok.

There are more reasons, as I say, a quick google can explain them far better than I can. The issue with this question, is again, it isn't asked as a genuine question, but as a way to judge the victim, in belief that waiting means lying. When there are hundreds of psychological reasons for waiting if people cared enough to actually want to know, and not just to discredit the victim.

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That’s exactly right, so to think that we should take everything as the truth is just ridiculous. Like I said that’s why you need to ask questions to find out the bottom of this.
Question - what proof would you believe? I ask because sexual assaults are usually done in private, with no one else in the room. No CCTV etc. Even DNA evidence, assuming there is any at the time, only shows that you had sex with a person, not that there was anything illegal. I understand why, legally, you can't just send a person to prison because someone said it happened. But in a crime so personal and private, especially one that happened in the past, what evidence do you expect women to have? Genuine question.


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You’re making it sound like every man is a predator. I know there are guys out there that are messed up, so I’m going to do everything in my power to not have any association with them or even be looked at for 1 second as one of them. A huge male outcry maybe what it is (which I don’t agree with) but just like we can’t with the woman, we can’t automatically dismiss something because someone said something. For a man to be worried about something that legitimately happens even if it is at such a small, tiny, mini total of all sexual assault/harassment cases, is not funny or shouldn’t be looked at as a negative.

I’m not in the right mind frame at the moment (Friday night here) so I could have that paragraph totally wrong but I’m summarising it as you can’t believe now that men need/want to take these steps of ensuring they don’t get accused of something that will change their life forever (if they were innocent), that it’s ridiculous that thought process is even a though because we’ve (the woman) got it worse? Which i just don’t agree with.
To clarify, it's not a negative to protect yourself from false accusations. My point was that, literally since women were small children, we are 'taught' how to not get raped. We are 'taught' to wear 'appropriate' clothing, to not drink much alcohol, to never walk alone at night, to not be alone with strange men etc.

I don't understand why men were totally ok with us being taught that, but when it comes to protecting yourself from false accusations, suddenly having to do that is awful? I agree you shouldn't HAVE to, but all you're doing is finally what women have been told to do for years.

Last edited by HBK-aholic : 12-08-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:28 AM
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Your automatic reponse seems to be 'women lie'. They do, but not as much as men sexually harass and assault. The very OP of this post thinks it's ok to kiss women you work with - it's not. Think about this; how many women do you know who have been assaulted, or suffered some kind of harassment? I don't know about you specifically, but every man I have asked has said they know at least a few women this has happened to. Yet, when I asked how many sexual predators they know, how many men they know who kiss people against their will, sexually assault women, make inappropriate remarks, grope or fondle them at bars etc - every man I've asked says none. The numbers do not add up.
I knew this would happen. Look, I'm not going to argue and go back forth with you. I didn't start this thread to talk about the legitimacy of women's claims of sexual harassment. I started this thread to talk about what is and is not considered sexual harassment. Now, do I think it is ok to KISS A WOMAN I WORK WITH OUT OF NOWHERE?? No I do not think it's ok, especially if I barely know the person. Now, do I consider telling someone that they look good today(not that they look hot, not that their ass looks nice, not that they have nice breast), that their outfit is nice, or that I like their hair sexual harassment? No I don't. Do I consider a hug or a pat on the back sexual harassment? No I don't. Do I consider a friendly peck on the cheek sexual harassment? No I don't. If I did, then I should go to my boss right not and tell him that I was sexually harassed Tuesday when a female coworker of mine gave me a hug for fixing her computer and kissed me on the cheek. I think I'll go right now and get her fired for that even though I know she meant nothing by it and was just over joyed that she could work on a halfway decent performing CPU for the rest of the day.

That was the point of this thread. I feel if a woman or anyone feels they've been abused, by all means, come forward and tell someone. Having said that, I also feel that not all abuse is the same. My point was, people nowadays are too PC, selfish, and not generally good people. I'd want everyone I work with to be comfortable around me and if I'd ever done something to make them feel uncomfortable, unless it was malicious, I'd want them to tell me so that I could make sure it never happened again. If they did think it was malicious, though, then they should tell someone. I don't think a hug, back pat, or yes, even a simple friendly kiss on the cheek are malicious, though.
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Last edited by SSJPhenom : 12-08-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:53 PM
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I knew this would happen. Look, I'm not going to argue and go back forth with you. I didn't start this thread to talk about the legitimacy of women's claims of sexual harassment. I started this thread to talk about what is and is not considered sexual harassment. Now, do I think it is ok to KISS A WOMAN I WORK WITH OUT OF NOWHERE?? No I do not think it's ok, especially if I barely know the person. Now, do I consider telling someone that they look good today(not that they look hot, not that their ass looks nice, not that they have nice breast), that their outfit is nice, or that I like their hair sexual harassment? No I don't. Do I consider a hug or a pat on the back sexual harassment? No I don't. Do I consider a friendly peck on the cheek sexual harassment? No I don't. If I did, then I should go to my boss right not and tell him that I was sexually harassed Tuesday when a female coworker of mine gave me a hug for fixing her computer and kissed me on the cheek. I think I'll go right now and get her fired for that even though I know she meant nothing by it and was just over joyed that she could work on a halfway decent performing CPU for the rest of the day.

That was the point of this thread. I feel if a woman or anyone feels they've been abused, by all means, come forward and tell someone. Having said that, I also feel that not all abuse is the same. My point was, people nowadays are too PC, selfish, and not generally good people. I'd want everyone I work with to be comfortable around me and if I'd ever done something to make them feel uncomfortable, unless it was malicious, I'd want them to tell me so that I could make sure it never happened again. If they did think it was malicious, though, then they should tell someone. I don't think a hug, back pat, or yes, even a simple friendly kiss on the cheek are malicious, though.
I couldn't care less what YOU believe constitutes harassment, nor what YOUR intent was when sexually harassing someone.

Your intent does not matter. Just don't touch your colleagues without their consent. It's actually really simple. I've been working for 10 years now and never sexually harassed a colleague of mine.

Based on your previous posts in the Symposium I am 100% sure you and I have very differing opinions on what constitutes harassment or assault. Luckily, I have the law on my side, whereas you have nothing but what YOU want to do to a woman/girl and why we should be okay with it because you weren't 'malicious'.


To Navi and Khalifa - you wanted to know why women don't always come forward straight away. Here is your answer. People like SSJPhenom don't believe what happened to them is 'real' abuse/harassment. They need to stop being so PC/selfish/not good people and let men harass them if they want to

Last edited by HBK-aholic : 12-08-2017 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:25 PM
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I knew this would happen. Look, I'm not going to argue and go back forth with you. I didn't start this thread to talk about the legitimacy of women's claims of sexual harassment. I started this thread to talk about what is and is not considered sexual harassment.
You should've known better. This is an extremely hot button topic right now and I'm not jumping down your throat or anything like that, but it's hard to imagine that this would be confined to the definition of what is or isn't sexual harassment.

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Now, do I think it is ok to KISS A WOMAN I WORK WITH OUT OF NOWHERE?? No I do not think it's ok, especially if I barely know the person. Now, do I consider telling someone that they look good today(not that they look hot, not that their ass looks nice, not that they have nice breast), that their outfit is nice, or that I like their hair sexual harassment? No I don't. Do I consider a hug or a pat on the back sexual harassment? No I don't. Do I consider a friendly peck on the cheek sexual harassment? No I don't. If I did, then I should go to my boss right not and tell him that I was sexually harassed Tuesday when a female coworker of mine gave me a hug for fixing her computer and kissed me on the cheek. I think I'll go right now and get her fired for that even though I know she meant nothing by it and was just over joyed that she could work on a halfway decent performing CPU for the rest of the day.

That was the point of this thread. I feel if a woman or anyone feels they've been abused, by all means, come forward and tell someone. Having said that, I also feel that not all abuse is the same. My point was, people nowadays are too PC, selfish, and not generally good people. I'd want everyone I work with to be comfortable around me and if I'd ever done something to make them feel uncomfortable, unless it was malicious, I'd want them to tell me so that I could make sure it never happened again. If they did think it was malicious, though, then they should tell someone. I don't think a hug, back pat, or yes, even a simple friendly kiss on the cheek are malicious, though.
I get what you're trying to say, the problem is that it's not about what someone's intention is, it's in the physical act or saying something that ultimately what counts. NOBODY can ever truly, 100% know what someone's intent is in any given situation, but we take it for granted in most situations. Last summer, a co-worker of mine asked me if I'd help him move his stuff into a new apartment and I agreed; this co-worker is openly gay and works in the front office and I was the only one who was asked so could his intentions have been to spend time with me even though I'm straight? I don't know, I never gave it any thought as I figured it had more to do with me being stronger and fitter than the other guards, thereby I'd have an easier time moving furniture. One reason why I figured it was the latter as this person's never made a pass at me, never made any sort of comments that could be construed as sexual in nature, never put his hands on me, etc.

Sometimes, a hug is just a hug and nothing more than that. I completely get that, I understand that and it's genuinely not fair when someone's intent is misconstrued as being more than that and accusations are made; after all, being someone who compliments others, hugs as a means of greeting or goodbye or what have you doesn't go hand in hand with being a harasser or an outright predator. However, as I alluded to, it's more the act itself; Al Franken has said, in response to him groping a woman's ass back in the 2000s, that he was intoxicated and it wasn't his intention to do what he did, but he did it and what if he's lying about his intentions?

If you try hard enough, you can make some sort of case for something out of almost anything. That's not to diminish what women have endured and continue to endure in any way, it's just how it is. As a result, as I said in my earlier post, it's best if you just keep your hands to yourself and keep your mouth shut.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:00 PM
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To Navi - you wanted to know why women don't always come forward straight away. Here is your answer. People like SSJPhenom don't believe what happened to them is 'real' abuse/harassment. They need to stop being so PC/selfish/not good people and let men harass them if they want to
I know why women don't come forward, and I have a problem with it. And because you don't know me personally, let me give you a little background here.

First of all I am a woman who was a victim of sexual harassment when I first started working for the school board. One of the guys who was my superior took every opportunity to get me alone and make sexually related comments to what I was wearing, the perfume I had on, whatever he could do he did. He never laid a hand on me, but his comments where bad enough.

Now I had only been there for a short time, I was just married and just found out I was pregnant. My husband just got his job with the bank and we were in the process of building our home, so I didn't need this shit in my life, and made a decision to put a stop to it.

I tried the direct method and it didn't work. I went to my superior (another man) and he didn't want to know anything about it, so I went to the only person I knew would help me, my father. My dad was high up in the government and was very well known. This asshole I worked with had no idea we were even related, which was his downfall. My dad went straight to the Minister of Education who had a meeting with me. He then went to the Superintendent of Schools and made sure that he started an investigation in to the matter.

They soon had proof of his actions because this time they were looking for it instead of turning their heads. Within 2 month of my meeting with the Minister, the guy was gone. Early retirement was the excuse, he was never brought up on charges or suffered any punishment except for losing a very well paying job.

After he left, other women I worked with came forward and told me they had been putting up with him for longer than I did. I couldn't understand why none of them had done anything about him before I did. I fought the battle alone, and because of their inability to take him on he was free to do whatever he wanted. And that's one of the reasons I wanted him out of there, so he couldn't do it to anyone else.

So before you sit there in judgement of others, yes I have walked in their shoes, I have been there and done that and am stronger for it now. Quite honestly if I had never done or said anything about the actions of someone in my case would have been 27 years ago, I wouldn't bring it up now. You have to make a decision either to do something or do nothing.
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