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Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Who Wins This Match?
The Rock 90 66.18%
Ric Flair 46 33.82%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 05-14-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TyndallEffect95 View Post
This match, as mentioned previously, favors the more athletic.
Which is exactly why Flair would win. Someone didn't read the rules on being in their prime.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Loveless View Post
Which is exactly why Flair would win. Someone didn't read the rules on being in their prime.
Fair enough. I'm not saying Flair (in his prime) wouldn't give Rocky a run for his money, but I think Rock would find some way to win in the end, especially in the event Rock played as a face and Flair as a heel (if that is even relevant). Either way, Rock takes it IMO.
On the other hand, Flair could find some cheap way to win (is there a cheap way to win a TLC match?) as he usually did way back when...
Loveless, you're making me re-consider.
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Brock Goldberg View Post

So this is what I'm separating it on, and I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned it yet. The Rock wins when it matters, whether it be against a returning Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair in that match, Stone Cold in their last encounter, and just recently after a 7 year hiatus, he cam back and bested John Cena in his home town, in John Cena's world that was built around him.
Hogan was beat by several people on his return, Flair was way past his prime and Austin was a shell of himself. The Rock lost big matches to the likes of Triple H, The Undertaker, Mankind, Chris Jericho and Brock Lesner. To sugest that he would automatically win because it was a big match is silly. He lost the main events of Wrestlemania 15, 16 and 17, dropping the title twice. His win against Cena is impressive, and is probably what people are really voting on.

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Originally Posted by Brock Goldberg View Post
The Rock never had a chance to show how much he could have meant to wrestling as a whole because he didn't stay after his initial 7 years so it's hard to compare that to Flair, but those seven years... wow. I just think Rock has the edge. I think he wins in big match situations more often than not and Ric Flair doesn't by virtue of the fact that for most of his career, and his prime in particular, he was a heel and heel are supposed to lose in the biggest matches. This is certainly a big match, both men rise to the occasion, but Rocky rises a little higher, up the ladder and grabs the briefcase after a gruelling unforgeable encounter. I can only imagine the promos leading up to this match.
Good arguement except Flair more often then not won at the big events. Starcade, Great American Bash, Crockett Cup, Halloween Havoc, Clash of Champions. While it is true he lost some he won more of the big matches he was in over a variety of opponents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
The Rock is a quicker, stronger, more charismatic, has better stamina, and better on the stick then Ric Flair. In fact, everything that Ric Flair is known for, the Rock does it better.
You forgot 'In My Opinion', because in my opinion it is the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
I'm sure we're going to get the stupid, Ric Flair is the 60 minute man, bullshit argument. That's great, we're not wrestling an hour long are we? Oh, and the Rock has wrestled a 60 minute match before, so thanks for playing.
Wow, A 60 minute match. Wow. While you are right, there is no saying that this will go 60 minutes, but the point of Flair being able to wrestle long periods of time goes to endurance and durability. Those to qualities might pertain to this match. Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
Ric Flair has the Horsemen: So fucking what. When we scrape the bottom of the barrel of arguments to bring in the associates, then the case is lost. The Rock hasn't had his fair share of allies in wrestling before? NOD, Corporation, whatever. Why do people think that if someone's pals interfere that the other guys pals won't jump into the match? Silly, null and void argument..
Heres the difference. If you are saying that The Rock has the NOD or the Corporation then that is the time period for him you are going with. Heel Rock with no win over Hogan or Austin. They were not with the face Rock so you have to make a choice. Otherwise Flair has Blackjack Mulligan, Greg Valentine, Ole Anderson, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Lex Lugar, Barry Windham, Sid Viscious, Sting, Brian Pillman, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Randy Orton, Triple H and Batista to help him. My bets on Flair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
Ric Flair is a better talker then The Rock: Why anyone would bring that up, who knows. Just to squash it before it shows up, if you think Ric Flair is a better promo man then the Rock, please proceed to go to the tallest object around you, and throw yourself from it.
Let me fix that for you...Just to squash it before it shows up, if you think The Rock is a better promo man then Ric Flair, please proceed to go to the tallest object around you, and throw yourself from it. You are welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
The Rock is a better physical athlete, a more brutal and impactful wrestler then Ric Flair. I fail to see how the Figure Four is going to keep someone like the Rock down in a big match. This is the same Rock that has no sold Attitude Adjustments, Stunners and Atomic Leg Drops, multiple times in one match. Ric Flair locking on the figure four isn't going to keep the Rock down. In fact, if you honestly think the Rock would be in the Figure Four long enough for any real damage to be done, you're crazy. Have you never seen a bigger and stronger guy reverse the figure four on Flair? It happens more often then not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocky View Post
The Rock moves on, Flair goes home.
Judging by the vote this is the only correct thing you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Dynamite View Post
Yeah, without a shadow of a doubt my vote and this match should go to Rock. No arguments can really be made here. Rock has already beaten Flair in a match and while this is TLC the outcome wouldn't be much different. It's all pretty much been said already, can't make the 60 minute argument, can't make the interference argument, Rock's faster, stronger, better on the mic.

Vote Rock.
Wow. Rock beat Flair in 2002, well past Flair's prime. I argued the 60 minutes and the interference. Rocks faster...Flairs better. Rocks stronger...Flairs better. Vote Flair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Are you really so stupid?

I honestly cannot believe this will count as a vote to Hulk. This has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read. But Rock wins because Flair won't be able to sneak a win in his traditional way. Rocky's too big and strong for the Nature Boy.
Which is what was said about Sting, Magnum TA, Kerry Von Erich, Nikita Kololf, Road Warrior Animal, Road Warrior Hawk, Brusier Brody, Barry Windham and Lex Lugar. I think Flair can handle The Rock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
And unlike Andre, Rock will definitely be able to push Flair off and make him crash through tables or to the floor. Rocky also has the basic offence to help him to do that whereas Flair would rely on Horsemen assistance, which is negated by any one of the anti-Horsemen outfits who Rock would ensure backs him up on this occasion.
Again, if The Rock has the NOD or Corp then he is a heel and Flair>Heel Rock. As for the interference, Flair often wrestled all the top faces in cage matches and with the exception of two( to Rhodes and Garvin ) he always won. Without interference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Dynamite View Post
We just went over this, the Horsemen will get ran out of the match by the NOD/Corporation. Also it doesn't matter if Rock is heel or face he is still miles above Flair.
Rock as a face= good match. Rock as a heel= Flair win. And I already took care of the NOD/Corp thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Dynamite View Post
Go read Rattlesnake's post about a page back. Flair barely beat Orton last round in a last man standing match. Rock takes this pretty easily.
Rattlesnakes arguement was actually a good one except...Flair, in 1986 at the Great American Bash signed to defend his title at 14 cards in a monthes time. He defended against Ricky Morton, Robert Gibson, Magnum TA, Road Warrior Hawk, Road Warrior Animal, Nikita Kololf, Wahoo McDaniels, Ivan Kololf and Dusty Rhodes. Most in cages. He won all except the last two. I think Flair in his prime can survive one match with Randy Orton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Dynamite View Post
That doesn't mean if he's a face those people still aren't his boys.
Actually, it does. Or are you saying that as a face McMahon, his enemy, would also help him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyndallEffect95 View Post
It would be funny as hell to watch Flair attempt to climb a ladder.Even if he could, The Rock would still take this one.
This match, as mentioned previously, favors the more athletic.
In addition, though Flair had more accomplishments, I'm almost certain NONE of them were via ladder or TLC matches.
Rock has experience here.
Vote The #1 Jabroni here.
Yes, because we didn't have ladders in the 80s.

Its sad. Someone posted, before the tourement started, that it would be won by either The Rock, because he just came back; or Savage because he just died. Good chance this comes true.

Prime vs prime Flair goes over the Rock again and again and again.
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  #44  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:13 PM
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Enough with the "Flair wins because of the Horsemen" bullshit. Last time I checked Flair wasn't undefeated as a member of the Four Horsemen. He still lost to the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Ron fucking Garvin, etc. The fact remains, The Rock is just a bigger star then Flair. Rock is on the level of Hogan and Austin while Flair is a tier below those guys. The closest thing NWA/WCW had to Rock during the late 80's/early 90's was Sting and Sting absolutely owned Flair. If you want to say that Flair's prime was before all of that and was closer to the early 80's, then Flair doesn't have the Horsemen at all. The Rock is a bigger star, better on the mic, better as an overall entertainer, and he would win this match in kayfabe. That isn't a knock on Flair because the guy is obviously a legend, the list of guys better then Rock just happens to be almost non existent.
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  #45  
Old 05-16-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
Enough with the "Flair wins because of the Horsemen" bullshit. Last time I checked Flair wasn't undefeated as a member of the Four Horsemen. He still lost to the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Ron fucking Garvin, etc. The fact remains, The Rock is just a bigger star then Flair. Rock is on the level of Hogan and Austin while Flair is a tier below those guys. The closest thing NWA/WCW had to Rock during the late 80's/early 90's was Sting and Sting absolutely owned Flair. If you want to say that Flair's prime was before all of that and was closer to the early 80's, then Flair doesn't have the Horsemen at all. The Rock is a bigger star, better on the mic, better as an overall entertainer, and he would win this match in kayfabe. That isn't a knock on Flair because the guy is obviously a legend, the list of guys better then Rock just happens to be almost non existent.
And how many of those matches that Flair lost were with rules that specifically allow what would otherwise be considered cheating? I am quite positive that the amount of No-DQ matches that Flair lost is a significantly lower number than the amount of standard matches.

But since you want to focus on Ric Flair's losses to support the Rock, doesn't the Rock have multiple losses to Mankind, Triple H, Steve Austin, the Big Show, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Brock Lesnar, all during his championship years, all during his prime? The Rock was never the man like Flair, he was always playing second fiddle to Austin. He only got to be the man for a short amount of time because Austin left. Ric Flair was the man for over a decade before his rivalry with Sting really got going.

Ric Flair is the dirtiest player in the game. Ric Flair is in a match where he can't be disqualified. FOR ANYTHING. You really think he wouldn't take advantage of that? Really?

Rock is a bigger star on the mic? I guess that's a matter of opinion. If you like constant repetitive catch phrases and monkey ass references devoid of anything really substantial, then yeah, I guess you are right.
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  #46  
Old 05-16-2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Davi323 View Post
And how many of those matches that Flair lost were with rules that specifically allow what would otherwise be considered cheating? I am quite positive that the amount of No-DQ matches that Flair lost is a significantly lower number than the amount of standard matches.
He lost to both Dusty Rhodes and Sting in cage matches. Two guys Rock is superior to.

Quote:
But since you want to focus on Ric Flair's losses to support the Rock, doesn't the Rock have multiple losses to Mankind, Triple H, Steve Austin, the Big Show, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Brock Lesnar, all during his championship years, all during his prime? The Rock was never the man like Flair, he was always playing second fiddle to Austin. He only got to be the man for a short amount of time because Austin left. Ric Flair was the man for over a decade before his rivalry with Sting really got going.
The Rock was at his peak during a time where everyone, even the top dogs, lost matches. All the guys Rock lost to he also beat. The competition during that time in the WWE is unparallelled to any other promotion in any other era. When The Rock was a face in the early 2000's, however, he rarely if ever lost clean and often times he overcame interference to win anyways. Austin injury or not, the Rock was at the top when the WWE's ratings were at it's best. Flair's best decade came when the WWF overtook the NWA as the top dog and the competition for Flair was not nearly what The Rock faced.

Quote:
Ric Flair is the dirtiest player in the game. Ric Flair is in a match where he can't be disqualified. FOR ANYTHING. You really think he wouldn't take advantage of that? Really?
I'm sure he would try but that doesn't mean he would succeed. Besides if we're talking about Flair's prime being with the Horsemen, the Horsemen had a lot of enemies. In this make believe tournament where anything could happen, what is going to stop some of those guys from coming down and helping the mega face Rock fend off the evil Flair and the Horsemen? We can play the interference game all day long but in the end it can easily be refuted in multiple ways.

Quote:
Rock is a bigger star on the mic? I guess that's a matter of opinion. If you like constant repetitive catch phrases and monkey ass references devoid of anything really substantial, then yeah, I guess you are right.
This is the bullshit I hear all the time. "The Rock only has catchphrases and no substance." That is a load of crap. The Rock having more catchphrases then anyone in the history of wrestling is a testament to how good he really is on the mic. Main event superstars would kill to have even a quarter of those catchphrases. Besides, something only becomes a real catchphrase when it is not only used but is accepted by the crowd. The Rock doesn't need catchphrases to make a point and cut a good promo. He uses them because that is what the crowd wants to hear. Whether he is a face or a heel it gets the crowd involved and gets him a ridiculous amount of cheers or a ridiculous amount of heat which is the main point to cutting a promo along with furthering sorylines. If all the Rock had was "repetitive catch phrases and monkey ass references," then all Flair had was repetitive catchphrases and references to how expensive his clothes were, with some nonsensical whoooooooo's mixed in. We all know that it isn't true for either man. Flair was one of the greatest ever on the mic. The Rock is THE greatest ever on the mic.
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  #47  
Old 05-16-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Brock Goldberg View Post
So this is what I'm separating it on, and I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned it yet. The Rock wins when it matters, whether it be against a returning Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair in that match, Stone Cold in their last encounter, and just recently after a 7 year hiatus, he cam back and bested John Cena in his home town, in John Cena's world that was built around him.
This is actually what I'm separating it on too but I'm thinking the opposite. Those are great victories for Rock but not as impressive as they may seem. At WM18 Rock beat an over the hill Hogan. At WM19 Rock beat a battered and beaten Steve Austin who was in such bad shape he literally almost died the night before the match. At WM28 Rock beat John Cena because he was the special guest celebrity. It was like Lawrence Taylor, Jay Leno, and Floyd Mayweather getting the win. The guest celebrity always wins.

I remember when Rock was a far more active competitor he lost three consecutive mania main events. I remember him losing to Austin every other time they wrestled besides Austin's final match. I remember him losing to Big Show, Undertaker, Chris Jericho, and Kurt Angle. I also remember him losing to Ric Flair's protege in a ladder match at MSG. Flair lost a lot too but he also won more big matches than Rock did. Rock didn't become a regular big match winner until he became a movie star and since wrestling was his second career by then you could say it was outside Rock's prime. Remember, the guest celebrity always wins but in this tournament Rock is still just a wrestler.
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