WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > Old School Wrestling
Register FAQForum Rules Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:14 PM
relentless1's Avatar
relentless1 relentless1 is offline
G.O.A.T.
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 541
relentless1 is looking to come up from OCW...relentless1 is looking to come up from OCW...relentless1 is looking to come up from OCW...relentless1 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default Could Flair have worked in Hogans spot?

1984 - 1990

Hogans legendary run that turned Vinces WWF into a international juggernaut in pro wrestling.

Of course Vince deserves the lions share of the credit for this happening but most say he couldn't have done it without Hulk Hogan as his star attraction.

So would Flair have been able to replicate Hogans success for the WWF in this time period?? Many look on him as the second most notable star in wrestling from the 80s so what if Vince plucked him from JCP instead of Hogan from AWA?? Could Flair have carried WrestleMania on his back? Could he be marketed just as successfully as Hogan during this time period with Vince behind him??

Bonus question, if Flair is the WWF main man what happens to Hulk? Does he die with AWA or is his natural charisma too much and he finds similar success elsewhere??
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:55 PM
ilapierre's Avatar
ilapierre ilapierre is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 473
ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...ilapierre is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

He is considered the second most notable star of that decade because he was a relatively big fish in a little pond the entire decade. I look at Savage as 2nd best. But, no, I don't believe Flair could have transformed wrestling and did for WWE what Hogan did. There is only one Hogan and only Hogan could have done what Hogan did.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-12-2018, 08:31 PM
Jack-Hammer's Avatar
Jack-Hammer Jack-Hammer is offline
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Wrestlezone Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kentucky
Age: 38
Posts: 12,924
Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...
Default

Flair was the better in-ring worker and gave better promos while Hogan was a man with the right look, the right personality and the right character coming in at the right time.

Generally speaking, Hulk Hogan's character during this time was basically that of an old school comic book character come to life. He was incredibily family and child friendly, there wasn't anything remotely edgy about him and that sort of safe, old school, conservative patriotism clicked with Reagan era Americans. Flair was a shallow, narcissistic, materialistic womanizer who epitomed the greed and excess of the 80s.

Hogan had the physique, persona and packaging of a heroic, blue collar American alpha male. In some ways, picture Dusty Rhodes but take away the lisp, the overly exaggerated Texas accent and give him a burly, powerful physique with just a dash of Christian theology and you have the ideal American hero of the 1980s. Ric Flair couldn't fill that role, I've no doubt he'd have been successful but Flair wasn't the one to lead the WWF to a level of mainstream success unseen or unheard of. The styles of Mid-Atlantic/JCP/WCW and WWF were quite different. The WWF had good wrestlers and did have some good wrestling, but it was more about the characters and their over the top aspects while Mid-Atlantic/JCP/WCW had the better overall in-ring work but relatively few over the top, cartoonish characters. For the most part, Flair's pond was doing things the way most other companies had always done while Hogan's was doing something quite different and needed a different wrestler than Flair to be be its biggest fish.
__________________
"What Do I Know Of Cultured Ways, The Gilt, The Craft And The Lie?
I, Who Was Born In A Naked Land And Bred In The Open Sky.
The Subtle Tongue, The Sophist Guile, They Fail When The Broadswords Sing.
Rush In And Die Dogs - I Was A Man Before I Was King."


Conan Of Cimmeria
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-13-2018, 12:34 AM
Jonyboyuk2 Jonyboyuk2 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 474
Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...Jonyboyuk2 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

No way. There were far better technical Wrestlers out there like Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels and Randy Savage. But the truth is, Hogan had an aura. What is forgotten (or not even known by younger fans) was the magic of Hulkamania in the late 80s and early 90s. You would genuinely look at Hogan and see a superhero. His routine was the same and it was very cheesy - but it was mega powerful. Flair was someone who could appeal to working man in the audience, but Hogan transitioned all of that - and was the most exciting performer in terms of playing up to the crowd for cheers on his comeback and victories.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:54 AM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
Registered User
WCW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,787
d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Hulk Hogan was the quinnesential face in the 80's.

Ric Flair was the ultimate bad guy in the 80's.

I can't see Flair playing a face character like Hogan back then and making it work.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:05 AM
Goldie's Avatar
Goldie Goldie is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 285
Goldie is looking to come up from OCW...Goldie is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

It may have worked to a degree but would been much less effective.
Flair was a heel for the better part of his prime..... though Ric could work as a face, he was already a long term heel champion of the rival promotion.
Yes Hogan wrestled as a heel... but with the 1982 release of Rocky 3... and certainly by the time Vince chose him, Hogan was already a super over babyface in the AWA. He already had huge momentum as a babyface and arguably already the most popular wrestler in America.

At the time Vince liked huge god like physiques. Hogan had it. A lot of the NWA guys though obviously bigger built than your average guy.... did themselves look quite like normal guys when you compared them to Hogan, Andre etc
Hogan was the American hero, was loud and boisterous (unlike his processor Bob Backlund) .... though Flair had immense charisma, could you imagine Flair taking on an American super hero persona? telling the kids to drink their milk and eat their vitamins?

Another thing to consider- Flair was about to turn 35 when the 30 year Hogan rolled up the Iron Sheik to win the title. Would Vince have considered there would be less mileage in building his long term expansion plans on a 35 year old?

Hogan had the look, the build, the loud bouncy personality- I don't think anyone at that time could have pulled it off as well as Hogan did. It didn't matter than he wasn't much of a worker because Vinces direction was more about hype, glamour, showbiz and most importantly ... dollars! Hogan had mass media crossover appeal to win over the 'kids market' and bring new audiences to his product.
Flair I would say was great at keeping the loyal NWA fanbase happy... but not having that super hero persona of Hogan- I don't see him having the same crossover appeal across the media

Hogan was the perfect choice and thats the reason Vince picked him in the first place!
If it wasn't Hogan- I think Savage would have been the 2nd best guy to go with

Last edited by Goldie : 04-13-2018 at 03:11 AM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:13 AM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
Registered User
WCW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,787
d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...d_henderson1810 worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Another factor that came into play was the time period.

In the 80's, wrestling was just becoming big. People still embraced fantasy, and didn't want realism in everything. The U.S. was held up on a pedestal and everyone was making money. Patriotism was at an all-time high.

So, part of the reason Hulk Hogan was embraced was because we were living in a society that was willing to embrace a child-friendly, American-loving wrestler.

Hulk Hogan is essentially the 80's version of John Cena. Or maybe Cena is the 21st century version of Hulk Hogan.

Think about it. They were the same. Both family-friendly, both won all the time, and beat whomever was put in front of them, both happy to wave the flag.

But the difference was, the internet wasn't around, and people didn't get upset when Hogan retained his belt yet again and called him "SuperHogan". They didn't complain that he buried everyone, and that you are all tired of him being champion, and your favourite should wear it instead.

I have said that the only difference to Hulk Hogan and John Cena's popularity is all a case of timing. If Cena was in Hogan's spot in the 80's, he would be as big as Hogan. If Hogan was wrestling today, we would have the forums full of how bad Hogan is and how anyone but him should have the belt.

In the 80's, people also wouldn't have Twitter, and even if they did, they wouldn't think of sending death threats to people like John Cena or Roman Reigns.

In today's society, Ric Flair would be more over than he was in the 80's. In the 80's, he was praised for his in-ring work and his charisma. Today, it would be this, as well as the character he played- the partying, styling and profiling guy who does what he wants, and doesn't follow the rules. He would be looked at as a more stylish version of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, in regards to their contempt for the rules.

Also, we didn't know about Hogan's private life, and just believed that he lived the values he espoused. People wouldn't have an internet to read about all the wrestlers who Hogan refused to put over, how he destroyed wrestling companies, or how he said the "N" word (and people wouldn't get their knickers in a twist and want Hogan sacked like the easily-offended and overly-sensitive petals we have today).

So, Hogan worked better for Vince, back then. Back in the time where wrestling fans actually enjoyed the product, and didn't think that they knew so much and arrogantly criticised every single thing and bragged that they could do better. So Hogan worked, because the crowd back then were more open to embracing it and making it work.

So, Hogan worked better for Vince back then, and was more universally praised, because it was then. If it were today, Flair might have been more over, because of his in-ring ability and the way he carries himself to a more fickle wrestling fanbase (and those on here who pretend to be fans).

Last edited by d_henderson1810 : 04-13-2018 at 03:17 AM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-13-2018, 08:17 AM
King Patrick Star's Avatar
King Patrick Star King Patrick Star is offline
K. O. T. R. 2007 – Team Undisputed
Mr. Money in the Bank
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Kingdom of NJ
Age: 39
Posts: 2,065
King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...King Patrick Star is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Could Lex Luthor have worked in Superman’s spot?? Could the Joker have worked in Batman’s spot??

I believe Ric Flair could have worked in Rowdy Roddy Piper’s spot at WrestleMania. Ric Flair could have worked in King Kong Bundy’s spot at WrestleMania II. Ric Flair could have worked in Andre the Giant’s spot at WrestleMania III (well maybe not). Ric Flair could have worked in Million Dollar Man, Ted DiBiase’s spot at WrestleMania IV. Ric Flair could have worked in Macho Man Randy Savage’s spot at WrestleMania V. Ric Flair could have worked in Ultimate Warrior’s spot at WrestleMania VI (well maybe not). Ric Flair could have worked in Sgt. Slaughter’s spot at WrestleMania VII. Ric Flair could NOT have worked in Hulk Hogan’s, until Hulk Hogan himself became Hollywood.

Ric Flair may be looked at as the second most notable Star in Professional Sports Wrestling Entertainment from the 80s, but in my opinion, he’s the most notable Heel in Professional Sports Wrestling Entertainment history. The reason why some may think Hollywood was the most notable Heel is because it was literally Superman turning and leading the Legion Of Doom.

If Flair went to the WWF instead of Hogan, I think we’d be watching SuperClash on the AWA Network.
__________________
I don't know if you know!! I don't know if you care!!

I don't care if you know!! I don't care if you care!!
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:05 PM
Bruno's Sanctimony's Avatar
Bruno's Sanctimony Bruno's Sanctimony is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 28
Bruno's Sanctimony is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Too much in the way of apples and oranges to this question for a definitive answer.
Flair and Hogan were designed and promoted for entirely different purposes...
Hogan’s job was to look good. Flair’s job was to make his opponent look good.
Flair’s persona was developed to be that of a traveling world champ, jumping from territory to territory in order to make each territory’s top guy look like a million bucks.
Hogan’s persona was that of a top territory guy who just happened to be in the right place at the right time when that territory went national. Granted, his character played a large role in the success of that expansion.
But his persona was still that of a “top territory guy”, nonetheless.
Even midway through Flair’s championship years, when the NWA died down and WCW became a singular promotion, he was still playing the role of “world champ” and his primary skillset remained that of making his opponents look good.
So, no. I don’t think Flair could have been as successful as Hogan….in that role. Likewise, I don’t think Hogan could have been successful doing what Flair did.
If we’re constructing limited parameters for this discussion, however, and looking to Hogan as the standard….I DO think that Flair’s character could have been refocused to that of primary foil…akin to what Piper did in the early years of WWF’s expansion.
__________________
RIP Living Legend
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:57 AM
theblackplague theblackplague is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 10
theblackplague is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

no chance in hell....Flair to me is a natural born heel and always has been. Even when he tried playing the face character...it was not believable to me. Some guys are natural faces and some are natural heels...Ric Flair is definitely a natural heel and always will be in my eyes
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices