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  #11  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:08 AM
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King Patrick Star King Patrick Star is offline
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History is written by the Victors. In this specific case, it’s edited and rewritten by Vince McMahon. There are some who have been helped by this, such as Hulk Hogan, Macho Man Randy Savage, and the Ultimate Warrior. There are some who have been hurt by this, such as Hulk Hogan, Macho Man Randy Savage, and the Ultimate Warrior. At the end of it all, the one man to truly benefit for displaying things the way he sees it is Vince McMahon.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:33 PM
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THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
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Shawn Michaels without question... here is a guy who was an absolute shit person off camera. He famously threw Marty Jannetty under the bus with a lie to Vince, which saw Marty fired and started his descent into addiction... to the point Curt Hennig forced a "Billy Martin" when he heard about it...

Shawn was a guy who never jobbed titles, would rather get himself suspended or beat up or conveniently "lose his smile" rather than job a belt and was a mess on all kinds of substances... but yay... he found GOD (TM) and was some how repackaged as this paragon of virtue.

Yes his second career was better in ring than his first, yes he put more people over... but he still had his moments, like the Hogan match where the old Shawn came out to play. Even now with his "will he/won't he" have another match, he is playing with people.

Revisionist sums him up... his frankly horrific deeds backstage are all erased with hindsight and through the lens of "he's born again...and he's the best ever..." The Jericho feud for example had real chunks of truth woven in there about Shawn, that's what made it work rather than it being Shawn's talent...

In truth, his 93-DX time was mediocre in terms of success, drawing and it was only when he ramped up the swears and raciness that he really took off. People love to say "his matches were great" but back then he was nearly always working with an equal... Razor, Bret, even Jarrett were all as good as him. It's only since he came back the second time that he has been painted as "the best ever..."
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2018, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post

Revisionist sums him up... his frankly horrific deeds backstage are all erased with hindsight and through the lens of "he's born again...and he's the best ever..." The Jericho feud for example had real chunks of truth woven in there about Shawn, that's what made it work rather than it being Shawn's talent...

In truth, his 93-DX time was mediocre in terms of success, drawing and it was only when he ramped up the swears and raciness that he really took off. People love to say "his matches were great" but back then he was nearly always working with an equal... Razor, Bret, even Jarrett were all as good as him. It's only since he came back the second time that he has been painted as "the best ever..."
I do agree with much of what is said here.
Whilst Shawn was an outstanding worker….. I do find all this ‘greatest superstar of all time business’ farfetched.
WWE always do this for legends they are on good terms with…. Fall out with Vince and your legacy is never mentioned (ie like Randy Savage, or as Bret Hart had for many years…. Hogan and Austin when they’ve fallen out with Vince.
Its always Shawn and Undertaker who get the living legend/best of all time treatment on TV….. whilst reality Hogan, Austin and Bruno are my top 3.

Vader, BamBam Bigelow, Shane Douglas, Chris Candido, Jannetty are just a handful of wrestlers who felt their careers in the WWE were thwarted by Shawn, not to mention a certain Rocky Maivia who felt Shawn was intent on holding back. .. and lets not get started on the Hart family!

On the Bret & Shawn DVD (a sit down interview with both mediated by Jim Ross) Shawn was forever apologising for his backstage conduct in the 90s when certain incidents were brought up. He often counters his past misconduct with his ‘But I’m a good Christian now’ which I find rather nauseating.

Whilst Vince was looking for his next ‘Hulk Hogan’ (which wouldn’t arrive till Austin peaked in 1998) Shawn was given the top spot in the company throughout 1996…. But it was a flop. As a babyface his ‘sexy boy’ stripper routine wasn’t going to endear him to much of the adult male demographic (remember the cheers when Shawn lost the title to the heel Sid at Survivor series?).
It was as a heel in DX- (where Shawn was given the green light to act in jerk mode) where he took off in terms of developing a character…. Some cynics would argue that he was allowed to play the Shawn in real life!

He loved winning championship gold…. But never did like losing them! For all the montreal screwjob divides wrestling fans…. Shawn losing his smile to forfeit the title (rather than drop it to Bret) was the same principle Bret had of not wanting to lose to Shawn…. And it screwed up the WM13 main event that was planned (though on the plus side it gave us the excellent Bret-Austin match).

To his credit Shawn has mellowed with age, and was a great worker…. But greatest super star of all time?
A superstar is more than just being a great worker… he has to carry the company, sell tickets and merchandise, have crossover media appeal….. that’s why Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bruno and even Cena are a step ahead of Shawn.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2018, 08:55 PM
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THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldie View Post
I do agree with much of what is said here.
Whilst Shawn was an outstanding worker….. I do find all this ‘greatest superstar of all time business’ farfetched.
WWE always do this for legends they are on good terms with…. Fall out with Vince and your legacy is never mentioned (ie like Randy Savage, or as Bret Hart had for many years…. Hogan and Austin when they’ve fallen out with Vince.
Its always Shawn and Undertaker who get the living legend/best of all time treatment on TV….. whilst reality Hogan, Austin and Bruno are my top 3.

Vader, BamBam Bigelow, Shane Douglas, Chris Candido, Jannetty are just a handful of wrestlers who felt their careers in the WWE were thwarted by Shawn, not to mention a certain Rocky Maivia who felt Shawn was intent on holding back. .. and lets not get started on the Hart family!

On the Bret & Shawn DVD (a sit down interview with both mediated by Jim Ross) Shawn was forever apologising for his backstage conduct in the 90s when certain incidents were brought up. He often counters his past misconduct with his ‘But I’m a good Christian now’ which I find rather nauseating.

Whilst Vince was looking for his next ‘Hulk Hogan’ (which wouldn’t arrive till Austin peaked in 1998) Shawn was given the top spot in the company throughout 1996…. But it was a flop. As a babyface his ‘sexy boy’ stripper routine wasn’t going to endear him to much of the adult male demographic (remember the cheers when Shawn lost the title to the heel Sid at Survivor series?).
It was as a heel in DX- (where Shawn was given the green light to act in jerk mode) where he took off in terms of developing a character…. Some cynics would argue that he was allowed to play the Shawn in real life!

He loved winning championship gold…. But never did like losing them! For all the montreal screwjob divides wrestling fans…. Shawn losing his smile to forfeit the title (rather than drop it to Bret) was the same principle Bret had of not wanting to lose to Shawn…. And it screwed up the WM13 main event that was planned (though on the plus side it gave us the excellent Bret-Austin match).

To his credit Shawn has mellowed with age, and was a great worker…. But greatest super star of all time?
A superstar is more than just being a great worker… he has to carry the company, sell tickets and merchandise, have crossover media appeal….. that’s why Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bruno and even Cena are a step ahead of Shawn.
Want any doubts solved... this is a "good Christian man" who allowed his wife to be PUNCHED on TV for real cos it got him into the main event.... Yes Jericho benefited to, but to be at the point where you would either put that idea forward and it not be a bad stand up comedy joke (Please hit my wife...) or that you genuinely believe it will get you more over... but hey, he prays and shit...
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2018, 06:45 AM
Kodo Sawaki Kodo Sawaki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
Want any doubts solved... this is a "good Christian man" who allowed his wife to be PUNCHED on TV for real cos it got him into the main event.... Yes Jericho benefited to, but to be at the point where you would either put that idea forward and it not be a bad stand up comedy joke (Please hit my wife...) or that you genuinely believe it will get you more over... but hey, he prays and shit...
As a good Christian I would have more problems with this



And Shawn having God's name dragged out for cheap fun by VKM. Then again, its Vince, he once considered storyline where his daughter should be pregnant with his child. So nothing is sacred to him.
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