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View Poll Results: Misawa vs Edge, Falls Count Anywhere
Mitsuharu Misawa 57 50.00%
Edge 57 50.00%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #1  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:48 AM
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Default Rd. 2 Falls Count Anywhere - Mitsuharu Misawa (JAP) vs Edge (CAN)

Mitsuharu Misawa (JAP) vs Edge (CAN)

This is a second round Falls Count Anywhere Match in the 2010 Wrestlezolympics. There are no disqualifications and no count-outs. The match may go anywhere in the arena. The first man to score a fall via pin or submission will win the match and advance to the semi-finals.

The match will open for discussion on Thursday, February 4th, and voting will begin on Friday, February 5th. This is a non-spam thread, so if you decide to post, you must provide reasons why you are backing a particular wrestler. You may vote without posting.
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2010, 04:10 PM
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This should be a rather easy victory for Misawa here. Edge just isn't in his league, at all, and I've always been an Edge fan. Edge made a name for himself by cheating to win; well that's out the window when there are no rules. Add to that the fact that Edge isn't even half of the wrestler that Misawa was, and this is a cut-and-dry case for Misawa. Misawa is arguably the greatest pro wrestler to ever live. Edge wouldn't even crack the top 20 I'm afraid.

Easy victory for Misawa. This would have been an awesome match to see though.
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2010, 04:31 PM
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Yeah... Edge would die here, literally.

Think about it... someone with Edge's history of neck problems, along with other severe injuries, would never be able to handle those moves in that video. Never.

Edge is tough, no doubt, and he's pretty creative with weapons (though a LOT more so when he has a partner helping him out), but he just wouldn't be able to handle someone like Misawa dropping him on his head every 20 seconds, let alone if there's tables, ladders, chairs, and a concrete floor there for him to crash on. Like I said... Edge would fucking DIE.

As far as what Edge would do to Misawa... seriously, if you think the weakest spear in the history of professional wrestling would put down Misawa, then you're a fucking retard, sorry. And Misawa's just way too intelligent to get caught up in any of other Edge's signature moves, especially those involving weapons, since with Edge you usually see them coming from a mile away.

Misawa would win here, and anyone who looks at this unbiasedly and logically should agree.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:30 PM
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I've gone with Misawa, more on general sort of wrestling standard than anything to do with the match. Edge has had great gimmick matches, and he has won a lot, but he has also lost them when facing the huge names. His defeat to Cena in a TLC match is probably the most telling example of this. Edge has a definitively losing record over the very creme de la creme of wrestling, and Misawa is that, so he gets the win here.
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:20 PM
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JMT, Edge can quite possibly reverse or simply out-move over half of the moves in that Top Ten.

He had a Tope Elbow that seemingly took him forever to rush from one side of the ring to the other. Edge isn't going to just stand outside and wait for him to dive at him, hes likely quicker than the opponent in that video. A quick side-step and Misawa is going face first into the guardrail/ringside.

He had a couple elbow smash/roaring elbow smash moves. Both of which are easily counter-able for someone with Edge's quickness, and also nicely set-up for Edge to bounce off the opposite ropes and hit Misawa with a spear. And as far as the above comments you made about it being the weakest.. well weak or not its pinned Superstars vastly superior and greater than Misawa's, shoulders to the mat.. so it must have something going for it.

The Tiger Bomb isn't as powerful as the Batista Bomb. (okay, I won't say it doesn't hurt any less - but from that video it looked very slow and quite honestly; weak) If Edge can survive a similar move being delivered from someone with more power and delivery force, I'm sure he can survive Misawa's version.

The Suplex he does is just a folded arms version of a regular German. Kurt Angle has delivered several to Edge throughout the course of their feuds and Edge hasn't lost any momentum or matches because of them yet. Unless someone can prove to me how folding the arms is going to suddenly cause that much more massive damage - I'm not going to believe it would be any more effective.

The way I see it, the only arsenal that Misawa has going for him are the Emrald Flowsion moves. All of which are nice, and it seems like he can hit them on guys Edge's size so its a possibility that it could/would happen. However, Edge has kicked out of finishing moves before - so its a pure coin toss to say he could or couldn't.

Finally - you brought up Edge's history of neck injuries and made a slap-stick comment about how he could "die" in the ring. Well, since you're such a history buff and all.. Misawa DID die in the ring. So, you know, if you wanna talk random stuff then I suppose the upper hand goes to Edge - since, as far as time goes - he's yet to actually die in the ring and all.

In the end, vote for whoever you want. Misawa fans won't listen to Edge fans, Edge fans won't listen to Misawa fans. It'll go however it'll go and whoever wins, wins. Plain and simple. I don't care if you vote for stupid reasons, or logical reasons. In the end, someone will win and someone will lose.

If Edge loses then so be it. I doubt Misawa fans could say the same.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
He had a Tope Elbow that seemingly took him forever to rush from one side of the ring to the other. Edge isn't going to just stand outside and wait for him to dive at him, hes likely quicker than the opponent in that video. A quick side-step and Misawa is going face first into the guardrail/ringside.
Actually, yes Edge will. Jeff Hardy has hit him with similar moves throughout all their matches against one another.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
He had a couple elbow smash/roaring elbow smash moves. Both of which are easily counter-able for someone with Edge's quickness, and also nicely set-up for Edge to bounce off the opposite ropes and hit Misawa with a spear.
First of all, Edge is not quick, at all. Secondly, yes you can avoid moves like the roaring elbow, but eventually you will get hit with one. It's inevitable, especially with someone like Edge. Seriously, Edge sometimes can't dodge Cena's shoulder block and 5 Knuckle Shuffle, so what makes you think all of the sudden he's going to be able to prepare himself with someone like Misawa's move set?

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
And as far as the above comments you made about it being the weakest.. well weak or not its pinned Superstars vastly superior and greater than Misawa's, shoulders to the mat.. so it must have something going for it.
Key word there being "Superstars". Misawa's not some watered-down, pansy ass "Superstar". He a fucking professional wrestler, and one of the best who ever lived. He would never get put down by something as weak looking as Edge's Spear. That is simply a fact.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
The Tiger Bomb isn't as powerful as the Batista Bomb. (okay, I won't say it doesn't hurt any less - but from that video it looked very slow and quite honestly; weak) If Edge can survive a similar move being delivered from someone with more power and delivery force, I'm sure he can survive Misawa's version.
I'll agree with you here - Edge can kick out of the Tiger Bomb. However, it would weaken his ass down for Misawa's other signature moves.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
The Suplex he does is just a folded arms version of a regular German. Kurt Angle has delivered several to Edge throughout the course of their feuds and Edge hasn't lost any momentum or matches because of them yet. Unless someone can prove to me how folding the arms is going to suddenly cause that much more massive damage - I'm not going to believe it would be any more effective.
Not really, man. The Tiger Suplex, when performed properly, is a very hard move to kick out of. I'm not sure if Edge could do it, since I don't think he's ever taken the move before.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
The way I see it, the only arsenal that Misawa has going for him are the Emrald Flowsion moves. All of which are nice, and it seems like he can hit them on guys Edge's size so its a possibility that it could/would happen. However, Edge has kicked out of finishing moves before - so its a pure coin toss to say he could or couldn't.
Yes, he has kicked out of some finishing moves throughout his career, but none as devastating as Misawa's Emrald Flowsion and Tiger Driver. And Edge has lost plenty of matches by pinfall with MUCH weaker maneuvers finishing him off, as well.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
Finally - you brought up Edge's history of neck injuries and made a slap-stick comment about how he could "die" in the ring. Well, since you're such a history buff and all.. Misawa DID die in the ring.
Thanks for the history lesson...

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
So, you know, if you wanna talk random stuff then I suppose the upper hand goes to Edge - since, as far as time goes - he's yet to actually die in the ring and all.
Only because he hasn't faced someone like Misawa before.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
In the end, vote for whoever you want. Misawa fans won't listen to Edge fans, Edge fans won't listen to Misawa fans. It'll go however it'll go and whoever wins, wins. Plain and simple. I don't care if you vote for stupid reasons, or logical reasons. In the end, someone will win and someone will lose.
If you truly believed this, then you wouldn't have responded to my post in the first place. You can claim you didn't put "full effort" into it, but regardless of whether or not that's true, you obviously do care a little otherwise you wouldn't have responded to it at all.

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Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
If Edge loses then so be it. I doubt Misawa fans could say the same.
You won't see me throw a fit if Misawa lost. You also won't see me go on this huge flame/bitchfest at those who do get upset at the result of a match, neither. I doubt I can say the same about Edge fans....
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:13 AM
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JMT, Edge can quite possibly reverse or simply out-move over half of the moves in that Top Ten.

He had a Tope Elbow that seemingly took him forever to rush from one side of the ring to the other. Edge isn't going to just stand outside and wait for him to dive at him, hes likely quicker than the opponent in that video. A quick side-step and Misawa is going face first into the guardrail/ringside.

He had a couple elbow smash/roaring elbow smash moves. Both of which are easily counter-able for someone with Edge's quickness, and also nicely set-up for Edge to bounce off the opposite ropes and hit Misawa with a spear. And as far as the above comments you made about it being the weakest.. well weak or not its pinned Superstars vastly superior and greater than Misawa's, shoulders to the mat.. so it must have something going for it.
1) The opponent Misawa elbows in the first clip is Toshiaki Kawada, a man stronger and faster than Edge.

2) How would you know that Edge's spear has pinned the shoulders of Superstars that are vastly superior or greater than Misawa? Pro Wrestling Illustrated listed Misawa as the sixth greatest modern professional wrestler of all time. Who was ahead of him? In order: Hulk Hogan; Ric Flair; Andre the Giant; Bret Hart; Antonio Inoki. Give me a shout if Edge's spear pinned these men in their prime.

3) Misawa is virtually invincible in the ring; it literally takes his opponent's all plus more to take him down. I seriously doubt Edge's spear would do anything to him in a kayfabe or real sense.

Quote:
The Tiger Bomb isn't as powerful as the Batista Bomb. (okay, I won't say it doesn't hurt any less - but from that video it looked very slow and quite honestly; weak) If Edge can survive a similar move being delivered from someone with more power and delivery force, I'm sure he can survive Misawa's version.
How would you know that the Tiger Driver isn't as powerful as the Batista Bomb? Also, a 36/37-year-old Misawa was able to Tiger Drive a 450-pound Vader; at a similar age, Batista can't power bomb someone two-thirds of that weight without tearing his muscles for the umpteenth time. So, even if Batista's power bomb is stronger than Misawa's Tiger Driver (which is doubtful), Misawa could still Tiger Drive Edge five times more without getting fatigued or injured, so this is a moot point.

Quote:
The Suplex he does is just a folded arms version of a regular German. Kurt Angle has delivered several to Edge throughout the course of their feuds and Edge hasn't lost any momentum or matches because of them yet. Unless someone can prove to me how folding the arms is going to suddenly cause that much more massive damage - I'm not going to believe it would be any more effective.
All right, Edge can endure punishment from one of Misawa's moves...what about the others?

Quote:
The way I see it, the only arsenal that Misawa has going for him are the Emrald Flowsion moves. All of which are nice, and it seems like he can hit them on guys Edge's size so its a possibility that it could/would happen. However, Edge has kicked out of finishing moves before - so its a pure coin toss to say he could or couldn't.
I'll move this out of the realm of probability for you and say with confidence that he could hit it on Edge. What is still in the realm of probability is whether or not Edge could kick out of an Emerald Flowsion. If he could, then Misawa would have no trouble delivering another one, so we can consider Edge's defeat a certainty rather than a possibility.

Quote:
Finally - you brought up Edge's history of neck injuries and made a slap-stick comment about how he could "die" in the ring. Well, since you're such a history buff and all.. Misawa DID die in the ring. So, you know, if you wanna talk random stuff then I suppose the upper hand goes to Edge - since, as far as time goes - he's yet to actually die in the ring and all.
Well, if you do want to talk random stuff, then let's talk about the fact that Edge has spent his entire career in a company that's about a quarter as high-impact and dangerous as any of the companies Misawa has worked for. Also, let's talk about the fact that Edge hasn't even had half as long an active career as Misawa had. With the type of injuries he has sustained in WWE, Edge wouldn't have been able to last 5 years with either AJPW or NOAH.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:39 AM
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1) The opponent Misawa elbows in the first clip is Toshiaka Kawada, a man stronger and faster than Edge.
Its nothing more than an opinionated statement that Edge is weaker than the opponent in the video clip. (or stronger, for that matter) What solid proof do you have that shows and evenly matches up Kawada's strength to Edge's? I'd love to see it.

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Originally Posted by Interdictdigle View Post
2) How would you know that Edge's spear has pinned the shoulders of Superstars that are vastly superior or greater than Misawa? Pro Wrestling Illustrated listed Misawa as the sixth greatest modern professional wrestler of all time. Who was ahead of him? In order: Hulk Hogan; Ric Flair; Andre the Giant; Bret Hart; Antonio Inoki. Give me a shout if Edge's spear pinned these men in their prime.
Ric Flair. You're Welcome.

Oh, but this is the typical replying part where you say "But he was aged and beyond his 'prime', Edge would never *insert opinionated statement here*

So the point isn't that Edge never has. Its that he was never given the actual, realistic opportunity because he wasn't apart of their "Era."

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Originally Posted by Interdictdigle View Post
3) Misawa is virtually invincible in the ring; it literally takes his opponent's all plus more to take him down. I seriously doubt Edge's spear would do anything to him in a kayfabe or real sense.
+

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Originally Posted by Interdictdigle View Post
How would you know that the Tiger Driver isn't as powerful as the Batista Bomb? Also, a 36/37-year-old Misawa was able to Tiger Drive a 450-pound Vader; at a similar age, Batista can't power bomb someone two-thirds of that weight without tearing his muscles for the umpteenth time. So, even if Batista's power bomb is stronger than Misawa's Tiger Driver (which is doubtful), Misawa could still Tiger Drive Edge five times more without getting fatigued or injured, so this is a moot point.
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Originally Posted by Interdictdigle View Post
I'll move this out of the realm of probability for you and say with confidence that he could hit it on Edge. What is still in the realm of probability is whether or not Edge could kick out of an Emerald Flowsion. If he could, then Misawa would have no trouble delivering another one, so we can consider Edge's defeat a certainty rather than a possibility.
= Opinionated Statements. Not actual facts, nor logical realistic proof beyond a shadow of doubt. You repeatedly asked how I knew this or that.. well, how do you?

Has Misawa done any of this to Edge? I'd love to see this video you seen to have on perma-loop. I mean, in no less than 3 different statements you seem convinced that Misawa CAN do all of this. When the simple, unarguable point is.. unless you have physical video proof (which I highly doubt) all it is, is you believing and being unwilling to take your head off that belief. So why should I even waste time trying?

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Originally Posted by Interdictdigle View Post
Well, if you do want to talk random stuff, then let's talk about the fact that Edge has spent his entire career in a company that's about a quarter as high-impact and dangerous as any of the companies Misawa has worked for. Also, let's talk about the fact that Edge hasn't even had half as long an active career as Misawa had. With the type of injuries he has sustained in WWE, Edge wouldn't have been able to last 5 years with either AJPW or NOAH.
The irony to this is Misawa's career could go 20 years longer than Edge's ever will.. and in the end, Edge will be more recognized and well known because he's in a Company thats Global.

Now, the truth of the matter is this.. Tdigs, I'm not trying to crap on your well-thought out post. I wish Misawa the best, and I hope he wins if it means you won't be as upset as you were over the other issue. But I'm also smart enough to realize even if I could provide you with all the same videos, and detailed explanations that I put forth the last time I tried really pushing Edge for something.. it wouldn't sway your vote. (a vote, that I believe you have even already locked)

You want me to actually debate you? The real question is.. why.
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:32 AM
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Its nothing more than an opinionated statement that Edge is weaker than the opponent in the video clip. (or stronger, for that matter) What solid proof do you have that shows and evenly matches up Kawada's strength to Edge's? I'd love to see it.
It seems posting moves instead of matches is the way to go, so let's do that. Here are Kawada's three Ganzo Bombs (he has only executed three Ganso Bombs because it's probably the most dangerous wrestling move of all time):


Can Edge do something similar to men that weigh 250 pounds? In the ring, slams and suplexes are the most effective means to signify your strength. I don't think it can be denied that he doesn't use suplexes or slams frequently (or, when he does use them, they aren't on opponents that wouldn't have qualified for WWE's defunct cruiserweight division). This isn't to say that this makes him an inferior wrestler, as he's won a shitload of titles and beaten plenty of big men. But, the fact still remains that strength is not an advantage he's going to have over a Japanese heavyweight; most of them lift people heavier than him numerous times during a match.


Quote:
Ric Flair. You're Welcome.

Oh, but this is the typical replying part where you say "But he was aged and beyond his 'prime', Edge would never *insert opinionated statement here*
All right, let's say I count Ric Flair. The fact still remains that Mitsuharu Misawa is recognized as being among the elite in an oft-cited American professional wrestling publication. In other words, Misawa is no slouch, and Edge has very little experience when it comes to facing someone of his caliber (I'll give you Ric Flair, as I don't want this to turn into quibbling about primes).

Quote:
So the point isn't that Edge never has. Its that he was never given the actual, realistic opportunity because he wasn't apart of their "Era."
Which opponents has Edge fared well against that we could reasonably consider to be in Misawa's league? I sure as hell won't consider Batista, and The Undertaker, HHH, and John Cena always seem to have Edge's number (unless he has a briefcase in his hand or a few wrestlers to assist him).


Quote:
= Opinionated Statements. Not actual facts, nor logical realistic proof beyond a shadow of doubt. You repeatedly asked how I knew this or that.. well, how do you?

Has Misawa done any of this to Edge? I'd love to see this video you seen to have on perma-loop. I mean, in no less than 3 different statements you seem convinced that Misawa CAN do all of this. When the simple, unarguable point is.. unless you have physical video proof (which I highly doubt) all it is, is you believing and being unwilling to take your head off that belief. So why should I even waste time trying?
I've seen Misawa's matches, and I've seen Edge's. I want to go to bed soon, but I have no problem putting up matches tomorrow with detailed analyses that will highlight Misawa's strength, agility, endurance, and perseverance and also the many, many personal assets that all of his opponents have had. And, you and I both know that we are BOTH limited to this kind of proof: matches other than the one between Misawa and Edge that has never taken place. If you want me to do this, I'll be more than happy too. But, please, don't resort to these kind of comments:

Quote:
The irony to this is Misawa's career could go 20 years longer than Edge's ever will.. and in the end, Edge will be more recognized and well known because he's in a Company thats Global.
Misawa was one of the most beloved and popular Japanese professional wrestlers of all time. Edge may have more exposure, but he is hardly the main reason why people all over the world allow themselves to be exposed to WWE in the first place. On the other hand, I can say with confidence that Misawa contributed significantly to AJPW's and then NOAH's popularity.

Quote:
Now, the truth of the matter is this.. Tdigs, I'm not trying to crap on your well-thought out post. I wish Misawa the best, and I hope he wins if it means you won't be as upset as you were over the other issue. But I'm also smart enough to realize even if I could provide you with all the same videos, and detailed explanations that I put forth the last time I tried really pushing Edge for something.. it wouldn't sway your vote. (a vote, that I believe you have even already locked)

You want me to actually debate you? The real question is.. why.
I could say the same thing about you; nothing I can do will persuade you to vote for Misawa, and that's fine. But, you're wrong on one thing: some people actually do read these posts, especially if they're not familiar with one of the wrestlers. I want Misawa to win just as much as you want Edge to win; this debate here has everything to do with the posters that read and nothing to do with us.
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneBigWill View Post
JMT, Edge can quite possibly reverse or simply out-move over half of the moves in that Top Ten.
And you think Misawa can't do the exact same to Edge's moveset, which isn't even half as diverse as his own? Think again.

Quote:
He had a Tope Elbow that seemingly took him forever to rush from one side of the ring to the other. Edge isn't going to just stand outside and wait for him to dive at him, hes likely quicker than the opponent in that video. A quick side-step and Misawa is going face first into the guardrail/ringside.
Even in his 40s Misawa still had more agility and speed than Edge has ever had in his career Will. We're talking about Tiger Mask II here, regarded as many as the best of them all. Surely you know the legacy of Tiger Mask, right? Edge doesn't have even 1/10th of the achievements that Misawa had in a junior heavyweight division, and when he bulked up to the heavyweight division he retained that agility and speed. Guy was 40+ years old, doing moonsaults onto concrete. Edge would attempt that and break his neck for the 14th time these days. Nothing against Edge, I love the guy, but he's easily injured and he hasn't faced an opponent like Misawa EVER in his entire career because he's spent his entire career in the WWE, where the strong style simply isn't wrestled. Edge doesn't know what he's in for here, and he's going to lose.

Quote:
He had a couple elbow smash/roaring elbow smash moves. Both of which are easily counter-able for someone with Edge's quickness, and also nicely set-up for Edge to bounce off the opposite ropes and hit Misawa with a spear. And as far as the above comments you made about it being the weakest.. well weak or not its pinned Superstars vastly superior and greater than Misawa's, shoulders to the mat.. so it must have something going for it.
Name one "vastly superior" wrestler than Misawa who Edge has defeated. Name a single one please.

I'm just going to stop here because I can already tell we're going into another war of the word forts and you already have TDigs and JMT doing line-by-line responses, so I'll just keep it to those couple of brief points I just made for now.

Now...stop your trolling mister.
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