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View Poll Results: Bret Hart vs Samoa Joe, Submission Match
Bret Hart 52 76.47%
Samoa Joe 16 23.53%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #1  
Old 02-03-2010, 01:25 PM
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Default Rd. 2 Submission - Bret Hart (CAN) vs Samoa Joe (SAM)

Bret Hart (CAN) vs Samoa Joe (SAM)

This is a second round Submission Match in the 2010 Wrestlezolympics. This match will be contested under general Submission Match Rules. The match will continue without pinfalls until a wrestler either taps out or is rendered unconscious by an opponents submission maneuver. WZO Submission Matches are contested under no count-out, no DQ rules, but the match can only end via submission inside the ring.

The match will open for discussion on Wednesday, February 3rd, and voting will begin on Thursday, February 4th. This is a non-spam thread, so if you decide to post, you must provide reasons why you are backing a particular wrestler. You may vote without posting.
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2010, 01:50 PM
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This will be an absolute war that could last for damn near between 45 minutes to an hour. Bret was the master of the Sharpshooter and damn near beat everybody with it but Samoa Joe isn't a novice to submissions himself. Ask Angle. Daniels, or AJ Styles. Joe has various chokes and STF's in his arsenal and will be on Hart all through this match. It does take one mistake for Hart to put on the Sharpshooter but could he withstand all of Joe's arsenal including a Muscle Buster into a Coquina Clutch? I don't know who to pick so I'm going to wait to see what other arguments are going to be made.
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2010, 05:40 PM
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Well I'm going to go against the legend here and pick Joe. Bret faced technical wrestlers before and big wrestlers before. We've seen him face and beat almost everybody except Joe is like no other wrestler.

He's fast, technical, and is a powerhouse. While Hart has the Sharpshooter, Joe has the coquina clutch, STF, Muscle Buster, Island Driver. Frankly the list goes on and on. He can finish this match from any spot in the ring. To keep Joe on the ground to lock in the sharpshooter will need power. Hart just does not have the power to overcome Joe, which he will need to beat him. Joe can lock in the Clutch from any time. Giving him the advantage.

We've seen Joe face, I would say, a wider variety of opponents than Hart has. He was in the X Division, Japan, TNA Heavyweight, all across America's indy scene. And he's left a mark where ever he left. We've seen him beat one of the greatest technical wrestlers ever, Angle, numerous times. He's faced better opponents than Hart and would beat him. Not saying this wouldn't be an hour long classic, but Joe would stand victorious, bloody, but still the winner.
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-Leafy Snowboard View Post
He's fast, technical, and is a powerhouse. While Hart has the Sharpshooter, Joe has the coquina clutch, STF, Muscle Buster, Island Driver. Frankly the list goes on and on. He can finish this match from any spot in the ring.
Just because you have an abundance of moves doesn't mean they will all be effective. To my knowledge Bret Hart has never given up in his career and I don't see why it would be any different here. Also, Bret was trained in the dungeon so I'm sure he knows his fair share of holds. Just because he didn't use many of them during his career doesn't mean he couldn't bust them out here in WZ Olympics.


Quote:
To keep Joe on the ground to lock in the sharpshooter will need power. Hart just does not have the power to overcome Joe, which he will need to beat him. Joe can lock in the Clutch from any time. Giving him the advantage.
Bret Hart was able to get Yokozuna's fat ass in the sharpshooter. I'm sure he will have no problem at all with Joe.
Quote:
We've seen him beat one of the greatest technical wrestlers ever, Angle, numerous times. He's faced better opponents than Hart and would beat him.
Bret Hart has a ton more impressive wins then Joe does. Hart has beaten the likes of Mr Perfect, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, Diesel, Sting, Chris Benoit, and Goldberg. Shit Hart once made Sting and Benoit both tap out in the same night to win the WCW title.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
Just because you have an abundance of moves doesn't mean they will all be effective. To my knowledge Bret Hart has never given up in his career and I don't see why it would be any different here. Also, Bret was trained in the dungeon so I'm sure he knows his fair share of holds. Just because he didn't use many of them during his career doesn't mean he couldn't bust them out here in WZ Olympics.
While Bret Hart has the formal experience of The Dungeon, Joe has had the personal experience of many indy wrestlers across the globe. Hart stayed in major companies most of his career. Joe has faced every move-set you can think of. From El Generico to Danielson to Sting. He's faced them all. No matter what training you receive it can't compare to the personal resume Joe has received.

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Bret Hart was able to get Yokozuna's fat ass in the sharpshooter. I'm sure he will have no problem at all with Joe.
Joe and Yoko are two completely different wrestlers. Yoko, you can out maneuver and pull out technical wrestling on him to easily get the sharpshooter on him. Joe is a fast moving powerhouse. They are two completely types of wrestlers. We've seen Joe escape from Sting's Scorpion lock and on the other hand we've seen Yoko break the turnbuckle when doing a move.


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Bret Hart has a ton more impressive wins then Joe does. Hart has beaten the likes of Mr Perfect, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, Diesel, Sting, Chris Benoit, and Goldberg. Shit Hart once made Sting and Benoit both tap out in the same night to win the WCW title.
While Joe has beat many top stars Joe has his own resume. Sting, Angle, Styles, Homicide, Sabu, Jeff Jarrett, and to top Hart's one night feat, Joe beat Abyss, Spike, and Raven in a Monster's Ball match. No matter what Hart throws at him, Joe is able to beat him.
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2010, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-Leafy Snowboard View Post
While Bret Hart has the formal experience of The Dungeon, Joe has had the personal experience of many indy wrestlers across the globe. Hart stayed in major companies most of his career. Joe has faced every move-set you can think of. From El Generico to Danielson to Sting. He's faced them all. No matter what training you receive it can't compare to the personal resume Joe has received.
So you're saying that Joe facing a bunch of nobodies in indy feds has prepared him to beat a wrestling legend in Bret Hart? And exactly what "move-sets" has Joe seen that Hart hasn't?

Quote:
Joe and Yoko are two completely different wrestlers. Yoko, you can out maneuver and pull out technical wrestling on him to easily get the sharpshooter on him. Joe is a fast moving powerhouse. They are two completely types of wrestlers. We've seen Joe escape from Sting's Scorpion lock and on the other hand we've seen Yoko break the turnbuckle when doing a move.
You said Bret Hart did not have the power overcome Joe. Bret Hart has beaten plenty of bigger and stronger wrestlers then Samoa Joe.

Quote:
While Joe has beat many top stars Joe has his own resume. Sting, Angle, Styles, Homicide, Sabu, Jeff Jarrett,
That list is shit compared to Hart's. If Homicide and Sabu are considered big wins then I could have added a lot more guys to the list of big names Bret has beaten.

Quote:
and to top Hart's one night feat, Joe beat Abyss, Spike, and Raven in a Monster's Ball match. No matter what Hart throws at him, Joe is able to beat him.
Really? Fucking Really? You're trying to tell me that winning a hardcore match over Raven, Abyss, and Spike motherfucking Dudley is the equivalent of making Sting and Chris Benoit tap out in the same night to win the WCW Heavyweight Title. You need to quit while your behind.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:22 PM
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Hart has more than the Sharpshooter in his arsenal to apply to an opponant. He is use to going against bigger opponants and has a life time of experiance in submission wrestling having been raised by Stu Hart in the Dungeon. Joe is very competant in a submission enviorment as well but at the end of the day I'm going to go with the experiance of Hart for the win. If Hart can make it by Angle in round one he should be able to make it by Joe in round two. I do think this is going to be one of the better matches of round two lasting well over thirty minutes.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
So you're saying that Joe facing a bunch of nobodies in indy feds has prepared him to beat a wrestling legend in Bret Hart? And exactly what "move-sets" has Joe seen that Hart hasn't?
High flying ones? When Hart wrestled high flying cruiserweights were just starting. Joe wrestled in one of the greatest cruiserweight divisions of all time, the TNA X Division. There is good wrestlers on the Indy scene. Danielson, Black, Strong, Claudio, Quackenbush? Any of those ring a bell?

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You said Bret Hart did not have the power overcome Joe. Bret Hart has beaten plenty of bigger and stronger wrestlers then Samoa Joe.
He doesn't have the power to beat a powerhouse that can move almost as fast as him. Bret has speed but Joe has it also. Joe has power but Hart doesn't.


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Really? Fucking Really? You're trying to tell me that winning a hardcore match over Raven, Abyss, and Spike motherfucking Dudley is the equivalent of making Sting and Chris Benoit tap out in the same night to win the WCW Heavyweight Title. You need to quit while your behind.
So you're telling me beating 3 of the faces in ECW in a hardcore match is an easy feat? Raven is the man who reigned over a hardcore company during its glory days? Or how about Sabu who would kill himself if his opponent got hurt too. Or even Spike, sure his offense sucks but you could drop the guy in his head and he would get back up to fight you. And to bring up the rules, this match is no DQ, you can say Hart can beat Joe in technical skills but that means shit when Joe brings out the Singapore cane.
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2010, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al-Leafy Snowboard View Post
High flying ones? When Hart wrestled high flying cruiserweights were just starting. Joe wrestled in one of the greatest cruiserweight divisions of all time, the TNA X Division. There is good wrestlers on the Indy scene. Danielson, Black, Strong, Claudio, Quackenbush? Any of those ring a bell?
First, Bret had an amazing match on one of the early episodes of RAW against Sean Waltman. Secondly, how is the fact that Joe has wrestled a bunch of cruiserweights relevant at all to this match up?

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He doesn't have the power to beat a powerhouse that can move almost as fast as him. Bret has speed but Joe has it also. Joe has power but Hart doesn't.
Bam Bam Bigelow, Scott Hall, Bill fucking Goldberg. Bret Hart has beaten plenty of guys that are both strong and quick.

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So you're telling me beating 3 of the faces in ECW in a hardcore match is an easy feat?
Did the match take place in ECW? No. Spike and Sabu were basically spot monkey jobbers in TNA and Raven at that time wasn't a whole lot better.

Quote:
And to bring up the rules, this match is no DQ, you can say Hart can beat Joe in technical skills but that means shit when Joe brings out the Singapore cane.
Bret Hart beat Stone Cold Steve Austin in this exact same match type. Say what you want about Joe, but he is no Steve Austin. Bret has beaten guys better then Joe and he has beaten guys with similar physical attributes.
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
First, Bret had an amazing match on one of the early episodes of RAW against Sean Waltman. Secondly, how is the fact that Joe has wrestled a bunch of cruiserweights relevant at all to this match up?
I wouldn't call Sean Waltman on the same level as MCMG, Jack Evans, or most of the X Division. You asked what kind of move-set has Joe faced and Hart hasen't. I answered your question.

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Bam Bam Bigelow, Scott Hall, Bill fucking Goldberg. Bret Hart has beaten plenty of guys that are both strong and quick.
As the evidence shows he has faced fast and quick opponents. But I ask who retired him, oh yeah Goldberg. And while those guys have the speed and power of Joe he also brings a technical and MMA background to the fight giving him the edge again. Show me a wrestler with the MMA background as extensive as Joe's.



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Did the match take place in ECW? No. Spike and Sabu were basically spot monkey jobbers in TNA and Raven at that time wasn't a whole lot better.
So Sabu was a spot monkey jobber in TNA? I think he beat Abyss in a barb wire match. That's an amazing feat and Raven won the TNA title. I think that's a little bit above jobber level. I admit Spike was a jobber but he still could give a good fight.

Quote:
Bret Hart beat Stone Cold Steve Austin in this exact same match type. Say what you want about Joe, but he is no Steve Austin. Bret has beaten guys better then Joe and he has beaten guys with similar physical attributes.
Yes Joe is no Stone Cold. But Bret beat him when Austin was still young. And Austin doesn't have the extensive technical background Joe brings. This is a no DQ match and we've seen Joe get hardcore from his early days to the "Nation of Violence". This man can fly, hit, and grapple. Bret can just grapple, well I'll give him that but you can't grapple a man with a chair.

And I would like to say good debate. For me any ways. It might be a usual one for you.
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