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  #11  
Old 09-25-2017, 07:55 PM
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It says a lot about the US that more people are 'offended' that people are kneeling during a fucking song, than the systematic racism and murder of black citizens by law enforcement.

I mean, it doesn't surprise me. Your own damn president thinks Nazi's are 'good people' but an NFL athlete taking a knee is a 'son of a bitch'. But please, continue telling me how racism doesn't exist.

And let's not even get started on y'all chirping on about your 'Land of the Free' while wanting to dictate what, when, where and how someone can act.

Last edited by HBK-aholic : 09-25-2017 at 07:59 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-25-2017, 07:57 PM
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If they really want to protest they should just contact Supergirl from TV show. She can now get sign that says "Trump, you can kneel to my iron pussy" or something like that.

No, really, there is a time and place for protest. A sports event is not one. Not because of respect thing, but because politics of any kind has no place at sports event at all. In ancient times wars were stopped in order to participate in Olympics. Even now it is prohibited to make any political statement during events. Because sports event is for sport, not for players personal issues that have nothing to do with their job.
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  #13  
Old 09-26-2017, 06:53 AM
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If you love something, you want the best for it and to want to best for something you have to be able to criticize and want to correct the faults of whatever you love. I love this country, and you bet your ass if I possessed the skill and luck to be a pro athlete I’d be kneeling too because I support what Kaep originally started sitting and then kneeling for.

And why shouldn’t sports be political? If Kid Rock can start and gain support for a senate run because of his fame, why can a pro athlete use his fame to stand (or kneel) for what they believe?
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Kodo Sawaki View Post
If they really want to protest they should just contact Supergirl from TV show. She can now get sign that says "Trump, you can kneel to my iron pussy" or something like that.

No, really, there is a time and place for protest. A sports event is not one. Not because of respect thing, but because politics of any kind has no place at sports event at all. In ancient times wars were stopped in order to participate in Olympics. Even now it is prohibited to make any political statement during events. Because sports event is for sport, not for players personal issues that have nothing to do with their job.
Funny you should bring up ancient times... it turns out that despite the Olympics and other games supposedly stopping wars, the ancients made plenty of room for sporting events to be political statements.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drsarah.../#b41890e180c8
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:16 AM
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Forced patriotism is not true patriotism. Personally I had to completely alter my lifestyle, eating habits, and mindset just for the chance to enlist in the United States Army. I grew up in a family of Marines, and Soldiers that have fought for the country as far back as World War I. I have uncles, and cousins buried under the flag and now I have friends that I have served with that were buried under the same flag they were on their shoulders to Afghanistan. But being a sane, reasonable human being. An athlete electing to take a knee during the National Anthem does not bother me in the slightest.

The National Anthem, and the United States flag are symbols. Symbols are objects that we give meaning to, not something that creates it's own meaning. The stars and stripes do not make American values, it's the individual that generates that meaning. For me personally, the flag and the National Anthem mean more to me than it did a few years ago when I was a civilian but that is because of the history behind it.

But that meaning won't ever be understood by the overwhelming majority of Americans, I wouldn't expect them too. In fact, there's nothing that causes more cringe than those that get over-enthusiastic to show their support to a service member or a veteran when they realize they are talking to me, or my old man. So if the flag and the National Anthem makes you think of the military? Good for you.

But there's also a population that cannot help but feel disenfranchised by the country, and whatever you may feel about it once again the symbols of the flag, and the anthem won't generate feelings of patriotism and military support for people who feel the country hasn't supported their growth as it has for someone like myself. To demand people to feel like you do about the Anthem, and to demand you want them to stand because it makes your freedom boner tingle is one of the least American things one can do.
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Funny you should bring up ancient times... it turns out that despite the Olympics and other games supposedly stopping wars, the ancients made plenty of room for sporting events to be political statements.
True, it wasnt and it still isnt Utopia. Ancients even used it to establish political dominance over rivals during it.

Problem in that is that sport should be separated. And that now sports federations (most of it) have rules against it that result in fines and suspensions. So when you want to make political statement you get this

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics...id=48658<br />

As you should.

Now rules as rules are rigid category. Somebody upholds them, somebody doesnt, somebody just get "slap by a hand" etc. Which doesnt really change the fact that politics is separated from sport and that it should be that way.
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  #17  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:49 AM
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As GI Cake said, forced patriotism isn't legitimate patriotism. Just because you stand, kneel, sit or whatever during the playing of the National Anthem isn't an automatic sign of respect or disrespect.

One thing I always notice about many on the conservative right is that they seem to feel they hold the monopoly on what's patriotic and what isn't even after all this time. Many of them are all about displays of patriotism and free speech so long as it's in line with conservative ideology just like they're supposedly against big government; they hate big government trying to make it harder to purchase deadly weapons but they're all for the government regulating what movies & TV shows people should be able to watch, what books should be available to students in school and what consenting adults do with one another in their private lives.

Being a patriot means that you sometimes have to ask questions that might be uncomfortable, that you have to question some of the goings on that don't sit right and to address the hypocrisy that goes on sometimes. The United States of America isn't perfect and it never has been, yet generation after generation of Americans have either been successfully brainwashed to believe that our history is absolutely sterling or that they just don't care. The players have said time after time that they're not disrespecting the flag or those who serve, but it's a protest against the continued inequality that's going down right in front of us; after all, when you've got video footage of a white cop shooting a black man unprovoked and said cop walks away clean as a whistle, you shouldn't expect people to say how just the system is. The system isn't perfect, it's downright fucked up in a lot of ways when you get right down to it and pretending it's not doesn't make you a good, patriotic American.

As far as Trump goes, it's just the latest example of Trump showing just how ignorant he is and trying to distract everyone from the various scandals rocking his administration and the fact that he continues to fail in his policies. I dunno, I just think the guy shows his true colors a bit when he calls football players "sons of bitches" when they don't stand during the National Anthem yet defends the rights of Nazis and white supremacists to protest when they're exactly the sort of people who want to destroy the country. I don't know if the old man is racist, but he definitely comes across to me as someone who doesn't really give a shit about the plights racial minorities face and deal with.
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2017, 08:30 AM
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A similar incident happened in my country. It was ordered that whenever National Anthem is played, each and every one has to stand. Like National Anthem is played in the theatres and multipexes before the movie starts playing. And at that particular moment, Everyone HAS to stand to show respect for it. That's where I find a problem. Forced is never good. It creates a problem and now we are "requested" to stand up during the National Anthem after many people opposed this order by the ruling Government.

Personally, I always stand up. Just a way to show respect. However, if someone doesn't, it doesn't mean that he doesn't respect his country or something. Most importantly, respect should be in the heart.

So, I don't think that there's anything wrong in protesting like this as long as it remains non-violent. Insulting the protesters won't solve the problem. Like here, anyone who opposes the Government even when the latter is wrong is termed as "Deshdrohi" or "Traitor". That's ridiculous.

I don't find anything wrong in kneeling.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kodo Sawaki View Post
No, really, there is a time and place for protest. A sports event is not one. Not because of respect thing, but because politics of any kind has no place at sports event at all. In ancient times wars were stopped in order to participate in Olympics. Even now it is prohibited to make any political statement during events. Because sports event is for sport, not for players personal issues that have nothing to do with their job.
Is the reason Kaepernick originally decided to not stand political though? I would hope the murder of black citizens and the racism minorities face every day would be something any political party would stand against? I mean, didn't this start with a Democratic president, is now ongoing with a Republican? These players are not protesting a politician. This goes beyond that - literally hundreds of years of history, of a country treating them as 'less than'.

In fact, the only reason we are hearing that argument now is because your so-called president got involved in matters he is far too stupid and racist to understand. It should NOT be a 'political' statement, to say black people matter, that they deserve the same rights as every other white citizen. The fact it's seen as so? Absolutely disgusting.
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Kodo Sawaki View Post
Which doesnt really change the fact that politics is separated from sport and that it should be that way.
So you don't play the national anthem or show national flags at any sports event.

Fine with me.
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