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  #1  
Old 01-05-2012, 08:16 PM
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Default Why I WILL be voting for D Double...

Okay, if you're in this section, you'll know that there is a substantial thread on reasons why people shouldn't vote for the ABC Party Candidate, Dagger Dias. Well, this is a free forum and that is their prerogative but I think it's time to say a couple of things.



First off, Dagger was voted the ABC Candidate fair and square. He dominated the first vote and, whilst closer, he comfortably made it through the second primary as well to become the ABC Candidate to take on Coco and Crock. The ABC Party was set up as a bunch of respectful and forward thinking members who had wide ranges of interests but were willing to get behind whoever the ultimate candidate might be.

Now a quick membership history, I initially joined Killjoy's WFU Party as I was interested in an additional TNA mod. KJ quickly amalgamated with the ABC Party and seeing the quality of the names this linked us with I couldn't have been happier. I, along with some help, persuaded JWGunslinger to throw his (cowboy) hat into the ring but as his heart didn't really appear to be in it (he was very quiet at promoting his excellent track record) I voted for KJ in the first primary, assisting him in making the second primary, behind Habs and runaway winner Dagger. Now, as both Habs and KJ were clear on their intentions to join IDR in the TNA section, I held back to see which would get more support and, with a heavy heart, gave my suppport to Habs (not because I don't like him but because I didn't like moving from my initial guy). All in vain, however, as D Double had the ground support to win out.

This should illustrate that I was far from a mark for Dagger. Dias won the election fair and square and I have had no issue in putting my full support into his campaign to become our next WrestleZone Forum mod. That's what being part of a party is about, if your guy (or gal) doesn't get through, you don't take your ball and go home - you throw your support behind the person your compatriots have deemed worthy.



In the, strangely venomous, anti Dagger thread I have picked up on a couple of things that I felt should be addressed:

Dagger has been accused of using rep to bribe votes. All of the primaries were private votes, there is no way he could know who voted for him.

He appears to have a group of mods who are hellbent on him winning the election. I may be wrong but I was under the impression that this election was to put the power of electing the next mod in the hands of the members, not the mods so I would encourage people to make up their own minds rather than be influenced by the great and the good who I'm sure have more than their fair share in the traditional method of appointing mods.

D Double apparently PMs to much. Sorry, does PM not stand for 'PRIVATE Message'? And what does that prove? That he is enthusiastic, perhaps?

The GMods will not allow him in if he wins. Seriously, if they don't want Dias to win, he wouldn't be still in the election. So it appears that Sly and KB are, at least, willing to accept him.

His posting quality varies...
Quote:
John 8:7
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
He hasn't defended himself. Why would anyone wish to enter a thread that is set up to do nothing but slate you bother, the haters will still hate and his supporters will still support him. This is the calm logical way to treat such a thread.

He loses his temper and takes things to personally. As just stated, it appears that he is learning to take a deep breath and not just rush in.

He is incapable of learning or improving... see above again.

He isn't liked. Well he has been a clear winner for the largest parties candidacy (even without my votes), so it appears to me that he must be getting some love.

Only simpletons and newbies like him because he green reps all round him to be liked and this might actually win him the election. How condescending is this? Plus, Rep is also private, so the degree of this is highly subjective and, if it is true, it would make more sense to give your green to higher rep people on the idea of receiving the same - it takes a long long time to get to 1,000 points 1 point at a time. That would be remarkably unselfish.


I'm not going to demand anyone votes for DD. What I will say is that ABC members should vote their party candidate and that you non party members have a simple decision: Dagger Dias or Crock for the WWe section (pick your favorite folks) or Coco for the spam sections. Coco could easily attain this modship without the need for this election as he has both the rep and enough current and prior mod support to fill what is essentially a vacant post and I doubt that you would find anyone who would oppose that decision as he is extremely qualified in this section (although I would still question the need, Coco and Sam seem to keep any problem makers in check without the powers of modship). As such, why waste an opportunity to put in someone who isn't in as strong a position. If you want your vote to mean something, vote for D Double or Crock. Ideally from my perspective, my ABC brother Dagger Dias.

Thankee-sai
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2012, 08:21 PM
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Did you see the way he responded to people who didn't like his game?


I like him but the man does not take criticism well
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2012, 08:21 PM
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Do you think it's a coincidence that the majority of his detractors are members with longer tenures and staff experience, while the majority of his supporters are the opposite?
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FitFinlay4Life View Post
I'm not going to demand anyone votes for DD. What I will say is that ABC members should vote their party candidate and that you non party members have a simple decision: Dagger Dias or Crock for the WWe section (pick your favorite folks) or Coco for the spam sections. Coco could easily attain this modship without the need for this election as he has both the rep and enough current and prior mod support to fill what is essentially a vacant post and I doubt that you would find anyone who would oppose that decision as he is extremely qualified in this section (although I would still question the need, Coco and Sam seem to keep any problem makers in check without the powers of modship). As such, why waste an opportunity to put in someone who isn't in as strong a position. If you want your vote to mean something, vote for D Double or Crock. Ideally from my perspective, my ABC brother Dagger Dias.

Thankee-sai
FF4L, as usual you raise good points. However, I must disagree that voting for Coco would prevent the vote from "meaning something". Sometimes, the key to getting on staff is letting people know that there is, in fact, a need, and you are the best [or only] person to fill that need. I became Graphics Mod after demonstrating that there was in fact a need for one, through my reported posts and posts in the section. Previously, there hadn't been a Graphics Mod for quite some time. Now, we can obviously make good arguments about me annoying my way to the position, but the fact remains that I showed there was a need and I was chosen to fill it.

Now, this shows that just because the need for a Spam Mod hasn't been filled or previously brought to light, does not mean it doesn't exist. This election has just made it clear. What need would Dagger or Crock fill that the current WWE team does not already? We have Jack-Hammer for discussion, and Nate and Nick for cleanup. Since you are supporting him, what can Dagger bring to the table?
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:54 PM
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The "Why I won't vote for Dagger" thread was posted on the 3rd. This was made on the 5th. That should be indicative of Dagger's support, no?

Last edited by CDR : 01-05-2012 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Coco could easily attain this modship without the need for this election as he has both the rep and enough current and prior mod support to fill what is essentially a vacant post and I doubt that you would find anyone who would oppose that decision as he is extremely qualified in this section. As such, why waste an opportunity to put in someone who isn't in as strong a position. If you want your vote to mean something, vote for D Double or Crock.
So... have I got this right?

You concede that Coco is qualified enough to become mod based on his own merits alone, and that Dagger is not... and you are using this as a pretext to vote for Dagger?
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:03 PM
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So what your entire post essentially boils down to is that you're voting for Dagger out of party loyalty and that since I'm already worthy of my getting my mod spot on merit alone, everyone should vote for a charity case like Dagger who has no chance of making mod but this?

Interesting strategy. You used the term "forward thinking" to describe ABC Party members. Would you be willing to define that for me?
  #8  
Old 01-05-2012, 09:19 PM
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Hey Dagger fans, watch what I'm about to do: give a well informed rebuttal for all of these points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FitFinlay4Life View Post
Dagger has been accused of using rep to bribe votes. All of the primaries were private votes, there is no way he could know who voted for him.
He still could have relied on people being honest. Though truthfully, it doesn't matter how he got votes, the fact is he won.

Quote:
He appears to have a group of mods who are hellbent on him winning the election. I may be wrong but I was under the impression that this election was to put the power of electing the next mod in the hands of the members, not the mods so I would encourage people to make up their own minds rather than be influenced by the great and the good who I'm sure have more than their fair share in the traditional method of appointing mods.
Hellbent on him NOT winning, silly. And normally us mods have just as much power as getting a new mod appointed as we do in this election. We make (hopefully) intelligent arguments about who is and isn't worthy, and hope KB and Sly choose the guy we want. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. The only difference between the normal modding process and the election is that instead of having to convince Sly or KB, we have to convince the regulars.

Quote:
D Double apparently PMs to much. Sorry, does PM not stand for 'PRIVATE Message'? And what does that prove? That he is enthusiastic, perhaps?
Who has this problem with him?

Quote:
The GMods will not allow him in if he wins. Seriously, if they don't want Dias to win, he wouldn't be still in the election. So it appears that Sly and KB are, at least, willing to accept him.

Quote:
His posting quality varies...
Nobody has a problem with Dagger for that. It's that he's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Not even close. He is the definition of quantity over quality.

Quote:
He hasn't defended himself. Why would anyone wish to enter a thread that is set up to do nothing but slate you bother, the haters will still hate and his supporters will still support him. This is the calm logical way to treat such a thread.
Because he's going to be criticized as a mod, and he needs to prove he can handle it.

Quote:
He loses his temper and takes things to personally. As just stated, it appears that he is learning to take a deep breath and not just rush in.
Or cowardly hiding.

Quote:
He is incapable of learning or improving... see above again.
He's been on here for like... 4 years... and he's still a shitty poster.

Quote:
He isn't liked. Well he has been a clear winner for the largest parties candidacy (even without my votes), so it appears to me that he must be getting some love.
I don't think being unpopular with the regulars is necessarily a bad thing. As Tasty said in my thread, we've had mods that are unpopular with the regulars that were very good. It's that he's unpopular with the other mods that is troubling.

Quote:
Only simpletons and newbies like him because he green reps all round him to be liked and this might actually win him the election. How condescending is this? Plus, Rep is also private, so the degree of this is highly subjective and, if it is true, it would make more sense to give your green to higher rep people on the idea of receiving the same - it takes a long long time to get to 1,000 points 1 point at a time. That would be remarkably unselfish.
I don't think anyone has this problem with him repping new posters.

The truth is, some of these qualities are actually decent strengths for Daggers, but his negatives outweigh them heavily. The thread I wasn't made wasn't a hate thread, it was a thread to inform the uninformed about why Dagger wouldn't make a good mod. And he wouldn't.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGlassius the Illustrious View Post
He still could have relied on people being honest. Though truthfully, it doesn't matter how he got votes, the fact is he won.
Nor has anyone come forward and said, "Dagger promised me rep if I voted for him." Facts are things I like, not just people claiming they heard a rumor from a second party that a third person had told them about a PM they received showing Dagger campaigned that way. Obviously, I'm exaggerating here, but you get my point. I haven't seen anyone stand up and say, "I got a PM from Dagger promising Rep."

Quote:
Hellbent on him NOT winning, silly. And normally us mods have just as much power as getting a new mod appointed as we do in this election. We make (hopefully) intelligent arguments about who is and isn't worthy, and hope KB and Sly choose the guy we want. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. The only difference between the normal modding process and the election is that instead of having to convince Sly or KB, we have to convince the regulars.
This is true, and I wouldn't try to argue or deny you or anyone else this prerogative. The arguments I've seen made against Dagger have seemed more emotion based then they are on intelligent arguments, however. I'm not saying people haven't made intelligent arguments, that would be silly. But calling people stupid or foolish if they vote for Dagger while others call him a c*nt expose an emotional argument rather then an intellectual one. Points have been raised, you specifically had 6. However, arguments such as "He's a bad poster" haven't been backed up with substance whatsoever. Just because "X number" people say that doesn't make it fact.

Quote:
Nobody has a problem with Dagger for that. It's that he's a jack of all trades but a master of none. Not even close. He is the definition of quantity over quality.
Or someone who is passionate about a variety of things. There are things on this site I enjoy, such as video games, but in the rare occasion I post there, my posts suck. Why? Because it's not a forte of mine. I play for enjoyment when I can, but I'm no expert on what makes a great game. I'm passionate about a few games, and that may show, but that doesn't reflect necessarily in a good post. But I'll still post here and there if a topic interests me, even if I know I'm posting as a novice would in the situation. I do it for the enjoyment in those cases. Does that make me a bad poster overall, or a bad Moderator? We both know I'm not.

In the same vein, just because Dagger posts alot, sometimes in places he may not be an expert(Like the CL/News for example), doesn't mean he's a bad poster. Nor does it mean he would be a poor Mod.

Quote:
Because he's going to be criticized as a mod, and he needs to prove he can handle it.
And these debates give him the opportunity to do exactly that. Not just to the Mods, or the established posters, but to everyone. All's fair here, but what sucks(especially for posters who try to have an open mind) is we haven't even had the first debate yet, and people are burying him. Let Dagger post his stuff, and allow people to think for themselves.

Quote:
Or cowardly hiding.
Or working. Or with his wife. Having a family arranges your priorities as well as your time. Moreso, you can't have it both ways here. Dagger is supposedly temperamental and emotional and goes off at the slightest sign of criticism, but now he's cowardly hiding? Doesn't make sense that he'ld go from one extreme to another.

Quote:
I don't think being unpopular with the regulars is necessarily a bad thing. As Tasty said in my thread, we've had mods that are unpopular with the regulars that were very good. It's that he's unpopular with the other mods that is troubling.
And yet in my two years here, I've yet to see Dagger start trouble with anyone, especially Mods. If it's happened, my mistake, but I haven't seen it.I know the question of "Why does being unpopular with other Mods matter?" will be greeted with the Sidious example, but Dagger isn't Sidious. He's not going to cause drama or stir stuff up in the Board Room should he make it there, and I believe you know this.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:23 AM
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Good thread Finlay. I would like to say that even I did not vote Dagger in either of the two primaries. I went with Killjoy in the first and Habs in the second so I am not really a blind Dagger supporter or anything.

The thing that has happened throughout this election is that Dagger's mistakes have been blown out of proportion. If one were to believe the account that was written in the anti-Dagger thread they would be led to believe that Dagger is some flamer who has flame wars on a monthly basis. The basis for that conclusion has been a grand total of two flame wars with a guy who has been calling him a "f***ger" for months. Call Coco or Crock that and you see that they will flame back in 6 minutes rather than 6 months like Dagger did.

As for the Mozz debate, it was a case of Dagger having a problem with the language that Mozz used rather than any criticism. The "How to be a Mod" thread by Lee was a joke and Dagger supposedly played in but haven't we done the same in the non spam sections of all things as well? We have sometimes replied to the topic by just seeing the thread title and not reading what was written inside. Dagger did the same here.

And if mistakes count Coco and Crock do not have a clean slate either. Have we all forgotten Crock posting porn in rep and then behaving like a druggie going through withdrawal when he got banned. He annoyed guys on Twitter. At least Dagger has never done that. Have we forgotten the flame wars that Coco has every month. No, that we haven't because according to some people they only want to see Coco get elected to see the drama. Tell you what, do that for a week so that you can have your fun. Leave the serious stuff to the guy that is really committed to the forums, like Dagger.
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