Creating Persona's

[DarkLordFett]

Originally Posted by TWJC: The Beginning

Much like ECW did....


You guys DO realize that Heyman's brand of entertainment appeals to a SEGMENT of the audience. This is the WWE. This is corporate sponsors, this is 70,000 fans, this is men, women, and children watching. It's not blood, beer, and boobs in a bingo hall or on USA in an era where that sells.

I do agree that Heyman seems like a good mind and might help some guys out.

Also, you guys should probably stop acting like you know what goes on backstage. You look like idiots. People involved in wrestling are carny as hell. They work people even when they're not working. Maybe Heyman is just an egotystical dick that's hard to work with? I mean, he goes from running his own company to working for someone who has to appeal to a broader audience. Hmmm.

I can't say how Heyman is to work with, I really haven't heard much. But it's never been a secret that he and Vince don't get along. It's probably that Paul is more savvy on the wrestling side of the business and Vince doesn't like that. Stephanie has had her issues with Paul as well. Trips and Heyman, I couldn't tell you.

As far as Heyman taking control of the company and the product magically becoming better..... I don't think so. It would take him time. Between talent and reworking existing programs in a logical way, it would be a while. But he certainly couldn't hurt things LOL

[Jon E Lymm]

Originally Posted by TWJC: The Beginning

Much like ECW did....


You guys DO realize that Heyman's brand of entertainment appeals to a SEGMENT of the audience. This is the WWE. This is corporate sponsors, this is 70,000 fans, this is men, women, and children watching. It's not blood, beer, and boobs in a bingo hall or on USA in an era where that sells.

I do agree that Heyman seems like a good mind and might help some guys out.

Also, you guys should probably stop acting like you know what goes on backstage. You look like idiots. People involved in wrestling are carny as hell. They work people even when they're not working. Maybe Heyman is just an egotystical dick that's hard to work with? I mean, he goes from running his own company to working for someone who has to appeal to a broader audience. Hmmm.

And you do realise that during one of Smackdown's greatest boom periods between 2003 and 2004, Paul Heyman was head writer, right? So he took a show that is meant to appeal to a broader audience and improved it.

Same goes for the ill-fated ECW resurrection, without his original guidance that show would've tanked a lot quicker than it did IMO. I mean, if they'd listened to him and put the ECW belt on CM Punk instead of going with Lashley for champ at the December to Dismember PPV, who knows how much different the landscape would be now?

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Originally Posted by Jon E Lymm

And you do realise that during one of Smackdown's greatest boom periods between 2003 and 2004, Paul Heyman was head writer, right? So he took a show that is meant to appeal to a broader audience and improved it.

Same goes for the ill-fated ECW resurrection, without his original guidance that show would've tanked a lot quicker than it did IMO. I mean, if they'd listened to him and put the ECW belt on CM Punk instead of going with Lashley for champ at the December to Dismember PPV, who knows how much different the landscape would be now?

Greatest based on what?

Also, Heyman worked within the system there. I'm not denying he's great, just saying that he caters to a specific audience.

To the other guy that quoted me, ever think it's pro wrestling? Guys are ALWAYS working. I bet Vince and Paul don't hate each other as much as they make it seem.

[enviousdominous]

One of Vince's biggest problems is that he's a Jim Jones type of egomaniac, he truly believes his own bullshit.

Look at the huge personas of the 80's:

The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase fleshed out his "everybody has a price" gimmick in (I believe) Georgia prior to joining the WWF.

The Ultimate Warrior became the face paint and tassel wearing maniac that made Vince a ton of money while he was in WCCW.

Hogan was given his "Hulk" persona by Jerry fucking Jarrett.

Bret Hart had to play every kind of fucking stupid until they finally let him portray a serious competitor.

If Vince had his way in the 90's, we'd groan when he hear of that goofy jobber known only as "Chilly McFreeze".

Where's the supposed "genius" that I often hear attributed to the success of Vince McMahon? It's a candy coated nugget of horse shit, otherwise known as "lack of talent", something very often confused for genius in our modern time.

Vince doesn't make people successful, he will sometimes allow them to be on their own good ideas or the good ideas of other people.

Paul Heyman is a lying sack of shit, but he knows how to entertain an audience. Ratings would go up, money would be made, the WWE would find themselves once again with mid 90's level publicity. The one catch that prevents all of this, is that Vince may possibly have to give someone who isn't named Stephanie credit for any of it.

[enviousdominous]

Originally Posted by TWJC: The Beginning

Much like ECW did....


You guys DO realize that Heyman's brand of entertainment appeals to a SEGMENT of the audience. This is the WWE. This is corporate sponsors, this is 70,000 fans, this is men, women, and children watching. It's not blood, beer, and boobs in a bingo hall or on USA in an era where that sells.

I do agree that Heyman seems like a good mind and might help some guys out.

Also, you guys should probably stop acting like you know what goes on backstage. You look like idiots. People involved in wrestling are carny as hell. They work people even when they're not working. Maybe Heyman is just an egotystical dick that's hard to work with? I mean, he goes from running his own company to working for someone who has to appeal to a broader audience. Hmmm.

I realize that three people have already argued your point, but I have a few things to say.

You're telling someone else to stop acting like they know what goes on backstage? You make that point not long after dictating that Paul Heyman's experience in creative writing doesn't go farther than entertaining a niche group of Philidelphians. That "Blood, beer and bingo halls" are all he's capable of creatively mixing into a night of wrestling action.

That's true that the same shtick won't sell for most other places, they had no plans of taking their act to big city arenas. It's amazing that they were able to become as well known on Paul Heyman's creativity while being small time, even if this was often by embarrassing themselves.

I'm not going to list the reasons why I'd get tested if I ever touched Paul Heyman's handkerchief, but the guy knows how to use people in ways that excite the crowd. I wouldn't call him a genius per se, I'd call him the right kind of piece of shit for this kind of creative requirement.

I know his ideas would work because quite frankly his ideas have already worked on a grand scale, which isn't to say that there aren't fifty other people just as capable as him. He's capable of turning his style of showmanship into what works for sponsor expectations. All Vince is capable of doing is letting other people make him look good. The WWE managed to keep 70,000 people glued to their seats for their big shows without his help, only because they were able to exploit someone else's.