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View Poll Results: Who is the biggest Legend of all time?
Bret hart 21 51.22%
Ric Flair 20 48.78%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #1  
Old 01-18-2009, 04:07 PM
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Default [Legend Tournament Final] Bret Hart Vs Ric Flair




Bret Hart

Born into the famous Hart family of wrestling he more than lived up to the expectations. He is a 5x WWE Champion, a 2x WCW Champion, a 3x WWE World Tag Team Champion as a part of the Hart Foundation, a 1x WCW Tag Team Champion with Goldberg, a 4x WCW US Champion and a 2x WWE Intercontinental Champion. He also won the first King of The Ring PPV in '93 and is Co-winner of the '94 Royal Rumble Along with Lex Luger. IN addition to the 16 titles he held he also is a recipient of 16 different awards from both the PWI and WON.



Nature Boy Ric Flair

1I can't say much about Ric Flair that you guys don't already know. He's a 16 time World Champion holding the top titles in the NWA, WCW and WWE. He has held Tag Team Titles and other singles titles. he is one of the most charismatic Superstars in the history of Wrestling.
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2009, 09:40 AM
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Well, this is a legends tournament, so I will be voting on who I feel is the bigger / greater legend in pro wrestling moreso than who the best wrestler actually is.

And that legend in Ric Flair.

Despite any criticism about his in-ring product, his attitude, or whatever, the man has won a myriad of titles from a who's who of pro wrestlers - Harley Race, Randy Savage, Vader, Dusty Rhodes, Sting, etc. Unlike other legends like Terry Funk, if you're talking Flair, he is synonymous with WWE, WCW, and NWA. That's an accomplishment unto itself.

The man has won major titles in 4 different decades with three huge promotions. He led the all-time difinitive stable in wrestling history. He mentored such greats as Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels, and Triple H. There is a reason everyone yells "Whoooooo!" when a knife-edge chop is performed.

The man is a legend through and through, and while I'd probably vote for Hart in any other tournament style in a head-to-head matchup with Flair, in this one I have to give Flair the nod. Bigger legend than Hart.
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2009, 03:42 PM
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Ric Flair will probably win this final because he has mastered the art of making everyone on Earth for the past 30-40 yrs believe that he is the greatest pro wrestler of all time. Ric Flair, as mentioned by others in the great thread comparing Savage to Flair in the old school section, is the most overrated wrestler in the history of this great sport. I don't care what anyone says, nobody has been praised more for doing less in the ring. It's amazing that this man continues to get the attention he does when you really consider how mediocre he was in the ring. Bret Hart easily has Flair beat in every category with the exception of mic skills. He was a bigger draw worldwide, he had far better, and I mean FAR BETTER in ring ability than flair and he has had more legendary matches in his career than Flair has.

If Ric Flair is such a big legend then how come it took three WWF guys in Hall, Nash and Hogan to finally take the WCW to the top. If Ric Flair was as big a legend as he is made out to be then he should have been able to do that himself before bischoff and the ex-wwf crew came into the picture. I just don't know what it is about this guy that makes him so legendary, numerous wrestlers, including many that have already been eliminated in this tournament, have outdone him in almost every category.

My vote goes to the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be...Bret The Hitman Hart. All one has to do is look at this man's resume to see how truly great he was. I think people have to remember that we are discussing PRO-WRESTLING here. Wrestling is the key, not cutting promos, flashy clothing, or WHOOOOOOS. In the end we all watch this great sport because we love WRESTLING, and therefore nobody is more qualified to be called the greatest Legend of Wrestling than arguably the greatest wrestler and storyteller the squared-circle has ever seen.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:23 PM
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Bret Hart all the way.

I myself don't understand what the big fuss about Ric Flair, as Stu Hart and Bret Hart have both said about Flair matches 'if you have seen 1, you have seen them all'. He follows the same pattern in every match Ive ever watched of Flairs. I generally think chops is the most pointless move in wrestling. Like Bret said, the point in wrestling is your meant to make it look like you are hurting someone, not really hurting them like chops do. Flair wouldn't know wrestling psychology if it hit him in the face. Like Bret says about Flair 'he wrestles 20 minute non-stop non-psychology matches'

Flair was all style over substance IMO. All the flashy clothes and robes and whatnot, in the ring Bret Hart ate him alive. When it comes to technical ability, jesus there isn't even a comparision. Bret changed his matches due to the size of his opponent. Flair kept the same style of match no matter who the opponent. Whether it be Undertaker or HBK or Dusty Rhodes or whatever.

I dont think I need to talk about how brillant Hart was. Its already been said by everyone. But I could gurantee now as for a bigger legend between the two, if you went around the world asking who Bret Hart and Ric Flair was I would nearly bet my life on it that people would recognise Hart's name before Flair's.

Flair is vastly overrated. Hart is simply the best for me.

Last edited by Emmet : 01-19-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:27 PM
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as Stu Hart and Bret Hart have both said about Flair matches 'if you have seen 1, you have seen them all'
If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black then I don't know what is. Bret might have had better technical matches, but Flair had more entertaining matches. For every great match that Hart had, I can think of 2 or 3 that Flair had. Flair was also a much better entertainer outside of the ring. Flair is an icon who was successful in the NWA, WCW, and WWE. Bret Hart does not even belong in the finals. Flair should win this easily.
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  #6  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:18 PM
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So it comes down to the guy hated by most smarks and praised to no end from the WWE, against the guy smarks get fucking bonars from, but who the WWE could shit on?

Anyways, when your talking about who is the bigger legend there is no right or wrong answer. Bret Hart was an amazing talent who's wrestling skills could rival the best of them. He showed amazing amounts of passion for his craft, but the thing he will be remember most by many is the Screw Job which made him seem like a whiny, ass, bitch, who like any employee should have listen to their boss(although I don't nessacary agree).

Then you have Ric Flair. This man also showed amazing passion for the business. He was sucessful pretty much everywhere he went and has a huge following. The last couple of years made marks love Flair even more. He was given the reputation of being the best thing in wrestling history(although everyone knew Hogan was the bigger draw).

In the end for whatever reasons, Ric Flair is more known by the public and I think because of the WWE love he will go down as the bigger legend(even though Hogan is the biggest of all...like it or not)
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2009, 09:33 PM
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Ric Flair or Bret Hart.

Both are Legends. Both will always be remembered for their impact on the wrestling world. When one looks at these two and judged them on their careers, judges which one of these two will be remembered as the biggest Legend, it is almost too hard to fathom. To answer this question, we must define what a Legend is in professional wrestling. To understand that question, we must understand what it means to be a successful professional wrestler.

A title win. Titles are great to win by wrestlers. When a wrestler wins a title, that shows that they are in the good books of a company. How do you get in the good books? Either by being the best wrestler in said company at that role, or the infamous route of backstage politics. As far as we know, Bret Hart never did work his way up through the back. He had respect in the back, but he was never in the back pocket of the boss. Ric Flair, however true it may have been, could have been.

Success in a company. Ric Flair was successful in the NWA and the WCW during times when those two companies were dying or not fully started up. He had success, but it was not with the WWE. However, Bret Hart had success in the WWE on a bad drop in the cycle. I am not sure we can judge either wrestler on those points, having one over the other. equal amounts of highs in either company are matched.

Feuds. Ric Flair had hundreds. Usually with the four horsemen versus Dusty Rhodes. He had some of the best feuds ever in the WWE. Up until the 90s. That was when Bret Hart took over and had some great feuds of the time. His biggest would have been with Shawn Michaels, Owen Hart, and Stone Cold.

Matches. Ric Flair is often talked about having some of the best matches ever. Whoever was watching those matches either had the real wrestlers name mixed up, or were blind. Ric Flair typically had poor matches. I am not even judging his limited moveset (which all in all doesn't matter too much), or his matches in the last 15 years. Bret Hart on the other hand, has had some of the best matches. Bret got the best out of Stone Cold, Shawn Michaels, Davey Boy Smith, Chris Benoit and Owen Hart.

Charisma. Here is a point where Ric Flair does beat Bret Hart. He had more charisma then Bret. But charisma will only get you half way, and when the people want to see a great back and forth match, Bret has you beat.

Tarnishing of Legacy. Is this what happened to Hulk Hogan? He is a legend, but was it tarnished by what he has done after his career. Now we look at the two men we are talking about. Ric Flair and Bret Hart. Bret Hart left the WCW after a horrible injury ended his career. But since then, he has stayed away from the wrestling world, and in doing so, saved a great legacy. Ric Flair did not. He stayed 15 years or so too long, and ruined that legacy with horrible matches.

All in all, I vote for Bret Hart as the greatest Legend of them all. I would rather have Bret in the ring, I would rather have Bret represent my company outside the ring, and I would rather have Bret Hart's legacy to point to when I am talking about my company's legend.
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2009, 10:09 PM
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He had success, but it was not with the WWE
Actually Ric Flair had a great two year run in the early 90's with the WWE, becoming a two time heavyweight champion.

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Ric Flair is often talked about having some of the best matches ever. Whoever was watching those matches either had the real wrestlers name mixed up, or were blind. Ric Flair typically had poor matches.
You are the one who is blind if you think he had horrible matches. Flair's job was always to make young guys look good, and he did that to perfection in his matches. Flair has had amazing matches with Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, Luger, and Harley Race.
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Bret got the best out of Stone Cold, Shawn Michaels, Davey Boy Smith, Chris Benoit and Owen Hart.
Bret had great matches with those guys but you can't say he got the best out of them. Those guys were all great performers and have had a lot of great matches without Hart.

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He stayed 15 years or so too long, and ruined that legacy with horrible matches.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to keep being involved with the profession you love. And it's not like Flair was wrestling during this whole time. He had a great run with evolution where he rarely wrestled. He was also "part owner" of the WWE for a while. And he was still able to have some more great matches. His match with Taker at Mania 18 was very good.
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2009, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
Actually Ric Flair had a great two year run in the early 90's with the WWE, becoming a two time heavyweight champion.
Khali could almost say the same thing.


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You are the one who is blind if you think he had horrible matches. Flair's job was always to make young guys look good, and he did that to perfection in his matches. Flair has had amazing matches with Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, Luger, and Harley Race.
...that was always his job? I think usually wrestlers try and make themselves look good as well. Flairs matches do not match up to Harts, no matter how you cute it.


Quote:
Bret had great matches with those guys but you can't say he got the best out of them. Those guys were all great performers and have had a lot of great matches without Hart.
Stone Cold's best match was with Bret, Owens best match was with Bret, Daveys was with Bret, I would even say Michaels was with Bret.


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There's nothing wrong with wanting to keep being involved with the profession you love. And it's not like Flair was wrestling during this whole time. He had a great run with evolution where he rarely wrestled. He was also "part owner" of the WWE for a while. And he was still able to have some more great matches. His match with Taker at Mania 18 was very good.
There is if you ruin chances for other wrestlers going for that spot. It is if you ruin the legacy you have created. He should have always stayed out of the ring. He could have been a great manager for Evolution. Instead he decided to get his saggy body back into the ring to make some money.
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:17 AM
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Khali could almost say the same thing
Khali didn't win a Rumble and main event a Wrestlemania.

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that was always his job? I think usually wrestlers try and make themselves look good as well. Flairs matches do not match up to Harts, no matter how you cute it.
For the majority of his career it was. Once he became a heel it was his job to make the young faces look strong against him.

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Stone Cold's best match was with Bret, Owens best match was with Bret, Daveys was with Bret, I would even say Michaels was with Bret.
Owen and Bulldog yes, Stone Cold is debatable, and Shawn has had a lot of better matches. And Ric Flair has gotten the best out of guys like Dusty Rhodes, Sting, and Lex Luger.

Quote:
There is if you ruin chances for other wrestlers going for that spot.
What spot did he have exactly? He wasn't in the main event scene. He wasn't winning Heavyweight titles. Flair has only won a heavyweight title twice since 1994, and his last reign was in 1999. When he was in the WWE he was a lot more helpful then hurtful. Flair helped a lot of young guys like Randy Orton and Batista, who happen to be two of the biggest stars in the WWE today.
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