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  #21  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Da Prophet View Post
I legitimately don't know what you're trying to say here.

If it's that Roman has always been at the top while not getting the biggest response and selling merch than it's really dumb. Reigns can in with The Shield and was instantly one of the hottest acts in wrestling. Coming off the breakup, Reigns wasn't at the top because John Cena was.
What I'm trying to say that Roman Reigns is booked as being the best when he's nowhere the best. That's my problem with Roman Reigns.

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Reigns wasn't at the top when he didn't have the biggest response. He got to the top after the Rumble in 2015 when he got the biggest response going forward of any wrestler.
Dean Ambrose was getting bigger responses than him. While being his lackey.

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And WCW gave away Hogan losing the belt to Goldberg on free TV and not at Starrcade. That company went out of business.
You're right.

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Do you know why WWE survives? Because they don't give away the major match like Lesnar/Reigns 2 on lesser events and they make it for the biggest belt in the company. You really don't understand marketing to an audience at all.
Yeah. I really don't understand marketing. I know that Lesnar/Reigns 2 shouldn't take place on lesser events. But necessarily for the biggest belt? No, I don't agree. Just like Rock/Cena II didn't need the belt.

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You could've taken the belt off Brock when Braun first challenged for it and given it back to him now. It's too late. This close to Mania it would be the dumbest thing ever to take the belt off Brock. The advertising alone, Lesnar on top as World Champ (and yes it does make a difference) demands that Lesnar keep the belt going into Mania.
Braun Strowman should have won. He can still win at Royal Rumble. Build Braun Vs. Brock II for Summerslam. All I want is a World Champion to stay. Not go and come back every while. Not defend the title 3 times in 9 months.

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Do you think Brock Lesnar is refusing to work?
I don't know. May be. May be not.

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You bring up these numbers like it's his choice. The guy was the biggest combat sports athlete in the world. He signed a contract equal to his value. Why are you against people earning what they are worth. Lesnar could work every WWE date, they would just have to pay him.
Dude, I'm not against him earning his worth. Take all the money and give to Brock. Why will I be against him earning his worth? But if you're getting so much, then give something as well. 4 matches on TV in 9 months. Sorry. But Nopes.

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And you're in the minority.
Yay! I prefer minority. I'm just keeping my opinion. Majority or Minority, it's cool for me.

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People love Lesnar. Still gets one of the biggest responses. The entire point of Brock is that he is a killer. He shouldn't go ten minutes, that way when Reigns last longer than 10 minutes it'll mean a lot! Not that hard to comprehend!
People also loved Dean Ambrose. And bunch of others as well. But they don't get the special treatment. If he's a killer, Braun Strowman is a monster. A monster shouldn't lose to a killer in under 10 minutes. Roman Reigns can afford this loss. He's not a monster. A monster couldn't last 10 minutes. Then, Roman Reigns shouldn't last 5 minutes. But he will last at least 20 minutes. Because he's Roman Reigns.

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The idea that you, a wrestling fan, who is signed up to a wrestling forum, who takes the time to debate a match that isn't even official yet, will watch WrestleMania and stop at the main event is bullshit. Yes. It is.
Really? May be for you. But I won't watch the main event. I'm not interested in another big rub for Roman Reigns. I don't want to see him be the greatest guy on expense of other talented wrestlers.
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
What I'm trying to say that Roman Reigns is booked as being the best when he's nowhere the best. That's my problem with Roman Reigns.


Dean Ambrose was getting bigger responses than him. While being his lackey.


You're right.


Yeah. I really don't understand marketing. I know that Lesnar/Reigns 2 shouldn't take place on lesser events. But necessarily for the biggest belt? No, I don't agree. Just like Rock/Cena II didn't need the belt.


Braun Strowman should have won. He can still win at Royal Rumble. Build Braun Vs. Brock II for Summerslam. All I want is a World Champion to stay. Not go and come back every while. Not defend the title 3 times in 9 months.


I don't know. May be. May be not.


Dude, I'm not against him earning his worth. Take all the money and give to Brock. Why will I be against him earning his worth? But if you're getting so much, then give something as well. 4 matches on TV in 9 months. Sorry. But Nopes.


Yay! I prefer minority. I'm just keeping my opinion. Majority or Minority, it's cool for me.


People also loved Dean Ambrose. And bunch of others as well. But they don't get the special treatment. If he's a killer, Braun Strowman is a monster. A monster shouldn't lose to a killer in under 10 minutes. Roman Reigns can afford this loss. He's not a monster. A monster couldn't last 10 minutes. Then, Roman Reigns shouldn't last 5 minutes. But he will last at least 20 minutes. Because he's Roman Reigns.


Really? May be for you. But I won't watch the main event. I'm not interested in another big rub for Roman Reigns. I don't want to see him be the greatest guy on expense of other talented wrestlers.
I haven't watched a main event of Wrestlemania since 30 and I'll continue to do so.
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  #23  
Old 12-21-2017, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Roman isn't the only one who elicits a response.

A contrarian? Oh. Yeah. Just because I don't agree with your opinion, I act like my views are end all be all? Or is it someone else who has to judge? I put forward my opinion. And asked how it's a money match. Didn't say that I'm always right and it's not a money match. Thanks for your irrational judgement, by the way.
You asked a question, I answered it. I then went on to explain why you never seem to be able to grasp things that should be super obvious. That reason is because you disagree with almost 99% of what the WWE puts in front of you, then you refuse to see other points of view when people try to explain them to you. That completely reeks of someone who views their own opinions as the right opinion.

ANd Roman draws the biggest response. That isn't an opinion, that is a fact, but go ahead and try to argue that he doesn't draw the biggest response just because you don't like him.

And honestly for someone who claims you aren't going to watch a lot of stuff, you have a lot of opinions on those subjects.
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  #24  
Old 12-21-2017, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz View Post
You asked a question, I answered it.
Thanks.

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I then went on to explain why you never seem to be able to grasp things that should be super obvious.
Yeah. Because some things may be obvious for you but not for others.

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That reason is because you disagree with almost 99% of what the WWE puts in front of you,
You know me so well, right? Almost 99%? Dude, stop with your partial judgement. I agree a lot. But obviously, you won't see it. Expected.

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then you refuse to see other points of view when people try to explain them to you.
Nopes. I just put forward what I think. And always respect opinions unlike someone else here. Opinions vary. It's cool.

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That completely reeks of someone who views their own opinions as the right opinion.
Nopes. Another wrong judgement. My opinion isn't right or wrong. It's opinion. It's obviously not a fact.

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ANd Roman draws the biggest response.
Dean Ambrose used to as well. He never got the big rubs like Roman Reigns did. He was made to look worse.

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That isn't an opinion, that is a fact, but go ahead and try to argue that he doesn't draw the biggest response just because you don't like him.
I don't like him? Lol. Yay! Another partial judgement. Just because I don't agree with you, I don't like Roman Reigns? And I never said that Roman Reigns doesn't draw the biggest response.

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And honestly for someone who claims you aren't going to watch a lot of stuff, you have a lot of opinions on those subjects.
A lot of stuff? Roman Reigns Vs. Brock Lesnar II is a lot of stuff?
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  #25  
Old 12-21-2017, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Oh. No. Don't get me wrong. I'm into Roman Reigns for sure. He's obviously not the best. But he's good. What I am not into is treating Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns the top tier in WWE. No one comes close to them. And multiple potential superstars have suffered because of this. I'm obviously not interested and won't watch. Don't worry. It's okay to be interested in that match. And it's okay to not be interested in it. Opinions are bound to vary.
It the end i feel like you're still thinking about wwe as a wrestling company, it's not, it's a business that just so happen to produce wrestling, reigns is on top because he makes money for the company, lesnar is on top because he makes money for the company. No comes close to them because from a business standpoint, they don't. I love strowman in fact I'm one of his biggest fan, but I Don't want to see them make the same mistakes they did with ryback back in the day, they have the potential to create the next big monster with him and trusting him into a spot that he's not ready to for will kill his momentum just like they did with ryback.

Right now what important is to make the universal title mean something and Lesnar made it feel like a world title just by not defending it on Every ppv. It made the title feel more special and not just another title like it did when they started it last year. Lesnar is a draw because he's not a on Every show. If he was wrestling and defending on Every show, he would feel like every other guy on the roster and his star power would fade. So it make sense business wise that you put the 2 biggest draw in the main event of mania. What doesn't make sense is having lesnar drop the belt this close to mania. Wwe hasn't become what it is today by giving away big moment on a smaller show. They always gave big mania moment at mania and lesnar dropping the belt is a mania moment.

In the end, I feel like strowman got a lot of time to get is mania moment and I feel like his time will come sooner rather then later but right now it's not his time quite yet. Like I said in a previous post, I feel that this match will be use to set up his program with HHH at mania and that will give him a bigger rub then having to defend the title at mania.
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  #26  
Old 12-21-2017, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
What I'm trying to say that Roman Reigns is booked as being the best when he's nowhere the best. That's my problem with Roman Reigns.
Biggest reactions, check. Top merch seller, check. Good wrestler, check.

He's clearly at the top. Reigns is excellent inside the wrestling ring. His talking is his weakest point but Reigns said five words after Mania in a fifteen minute segment and got a louder reaction than anyone has in years. That's top guy stuff.

And, it's not real. There is no best. It's a made up sporting league. The best is whoever the audience responds to, sells merch, draws rating and Vince McMahon decides is the best.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Dean Ambrose was getting bigger responses than him. While being his lackey.


Bullshit.

This isn't true. Dean Ambrose has never received a bigger response than Roman Reigns. Find me footage of this. Get me two instances, one of Reigns and one of Ambrose, from the same time period where Ambrose gets a bigger reaction than Reigns.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Yeah. I really don't understand marketing. I know that Lesnar/Reigns 2 shouldn't take place on lesser events. But necessarily for the biggest belt? No, I don't agree. Just like Rock/Cena II didn't need the belt.
The two biggest stars fight for the biggest belt. That's how combat sports work. It's been done for over a hundred years.

If you take the title off Brock, it'll kill the title belt at Mania. Guess what, Lesnar/Reigns is your main event. What a way to kill the credibility of the Universal Title for it to not main event to Lesnar/Reigns while they fight over no belt.

What you're arguing is that the WWE should make their biggest match, two years in the making, less important by removing the World Title. Instead of heaving a potential dual clash of champions, title vs. title, never seen before, history in the making, it should just be two dudes fighting over nothing? Wow, thank goodness you're not running this company. Again, it's clear you have no idea of marketing to an audience.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Braun Strowman should have won. He can still win at Royal Rumble. Build Braun Vs. Brock II for Summerslam. All I want is a World Champion to stay. Not go and come back every while. Not defend the title 3 times in 9 months.
So you'd sacrifice the main event of WrestleMania, the biggest PPV of the year, for Summerslam (not the biggest PPV of the year)? Yeah, that makes total sense.



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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
I don't know. May be. May be not.
Because in the history of the WWE, someone refusing to do something Vince asks them has worked out with them doing well like Lesnar has. This is such a dumb statement, mate.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Dude, I'm not against him earning his worth. Take all the money and give to Brock. Why will I be against him earning his worth? But if you're getting so much, then give something as well. 4 matches on TV in 9 months. Sorry. But Nopes.
He does give. He shows up when he is required. I don't know how you're blaming Brock when he literally an employee of a company. He doesn't get to defend the belt when he wants. It's not an actual title belt. It's fake. Vince decides. You're acting like this is real and Brock is holding the belt hostage like it's MMA.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Yay! I prefer minority. I'm just keeping my opinion. Majority or Minority, it's cool for me.
So, you completely missed the point. You're in a minority which means as a business, who cares what you think? If I make ice-cream and 10 people love chocolate ice-cream but 2 people hate it and want strawberry instead, I'm not going to stop making chocolate ice-cream.

Complain all you want but Lesnar/Reigns are the two biggest stars in wrestling. That's your main event for Mania and it's for the belt. Any other decision would be stupid. Based on the measurable metrics available, that's the match to make. Not by who you think is the best wrestler because they can do flips or because you think Brock is lazy, by the measurable factors we have, Lesnar/Reigns is the biggest match WWE can make.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
People also loved Dean Ambrose. And bunch of others as well. But they don't get the special treatment. If he's a killer, Braun Strowman is a monster. A monster shouldn't lose to a killer in under 10 minutes. Roman Reigns can afford this loss. He's not a monster. A monster couldn't last 10 minutes. Then, Roman Reigns shouldn't last 5 minutes. But he will last at least 20 minutes. Because he's Roman Reigns.
He will because it's the main event of WrestleMania. Again, it's not that hard to comprehend. It would be the same if anyone else was in that situation.

Again, Ambrose was never as recognized as Roman Reigns. He might've got more cheers but the volume of response was far less.

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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Really? May be for you. But I won't watch the main event. I'm not interested in another big rub for Roman Reigns. I don't want to see him be the greatest guy on expense of other talented wrestlers.
If people can't get over while Reigns is pushed as the top guy, that's their own fault. AJ Styles lost twice to Reigns on PPV and became one of the biggest stars in the WWE. Your point is flawed. AJ did it, he thrived working with Reigns and became a bigger star because of Reigns. Rollins became a bigger face by working with Reigns. Reigns has helped more people than he has hurt.
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  #27  
Old 12-21-2017, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
It the end i feel like you're still thinking about wwe as a wrestling company, it's not, it's a business that just so happen to produce wrestling, reigns is on top because he makes money for the company, lesnar is on top because he makes money for the company. No comes close to them because from a business standpoint, they don't. I love strowman in fact I'm one of his biggest fan, but I Don't want to see them make the same mistakes they did with ryback back in the day, they have the potential to create the next big monster with him and trusting him into a spot that he's not ready to for will kill his momentum just like they did with ryback.

Right now what important is to make the universal title mean something and Lesnar made it feel like a world title just by not defending it on Every ppv. It made the title feel more special and not just another title like it did when they started it last year. Lesnar is a draw because he's not a on Every show. If he was wrestling and defending on Every show, he would feel like every other guy on the roster and his star power would fade. So it make sense business wise that you put the 2 biggest draw in the main event of mania. What doesn't make sense is having lesnar drop the belt this close to mania. Wwe hasn't become what it is today by giving away big moment on a smaller show. They always gave big mania moment at mania and lesnar dropping the belt is a mania moment.

In the end, I feel like strowman got a lot of time to get is mania moment and I feel like his time will come sooner rather then later but right now it's not his time quite yet. Like I said in a previous post, I feel that this match will be use to set up his program with HHH at mania and that will give him a bigger rub then having to defend the title at mania.
Braun Strowman Vs. Triple H is fine, I guess. Let's see how it goes.

I don't agree that Brock Lesnar has made Universal Championship special. If anything, it's the opposite. PPV is a special event for me. And the top Championship being defended makes it special. From Raw. Or Smackdown. Universal Championship is no special for me anymore.

Also, about Braun Strowman, I can agree to disagree.
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  #28  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Braun Strowman Vs. Triple H is fine, I guess. Let's see how it goes.

I don't agree that Brock Lesnar has made Universal Championship special. If anything, it's the opposite. PPV is a special event for me. And the top Championship being defended makes it special. From Raw. Or Smackdown. Universal Championship is no special for me anymore.

Also, about Braun Strowman, I can agree to disagree.
I can agree to disagree about if lesnar made the universal championship special or not. Personally, I couldn't care less if the universal championship is defended on the brand only ppv because They're pretty much glorified version of raw anyway so for me They're just a way to advance the story going into the big four. So I'm o.k if the title is only defended on the big four ppv because they are the important show in my eyes. If the title is defended on the b level show, it's o.k but not necessary. I look at Owens title reigns as an example, did it make a difference in the number of people getting the network that the champion was defended on Every show? No I didn't, did it make the title feel like a big deal? No I didn't. So I rather see a championship match that make sense on a big show instead of a forced title match that mean nothing on Every show since you're just going to do the rematch at the next ppv anyway,

As for strowman, I think the guy got unlimited potential as a big monster main evented but if you push him too quickly, you're their going to get a backlash from a section of the fans that he's getting push to quickly. Let's not forget that he's only been in this business for 2 and a half years and he got all the time to grow and become a mainstay instead of just a flash in the pan.

I don't know if you we're watching wrestling in the late 80's but I'm going to use the ultimate warrior as an example. Warrior came in in 1987 and started to get super over in 88, so much so that they change plans and gave him the ic title at summerslam 88. Which lead us to mania 5, the big match that they we're building for a year was savage vs Hogan for the title. Warrior was getting as loud of a reaction as Hogan was by 89, if we look at you're logic, they should have scrap everything to hotshot warrior into the mania main event because he was the hottest thing at the time. If they would have done that, it would have killed warrior's momentum as a top guy.

Another example I can give you is ryback, look how ryback was over when he started out in wwe. He was this unstoppable killer that couldn't be beating. They decided to rush his ascension to the top of the roster and all the momentum the guy had just evaporate because he got rush into a position that he wasn't ready to be put in. Strowman is like that, the guy is unlimited potential but at the reigns level yet we're he can perform at a main event level every night. He will get there soon but he need to continue getting the rub from veteran like Kane and HHH that will protect him and teach him how to be a monster and perform at that level every time.

So this match will be another learning experience for strowman while being protected by 2 veteran that can perform at the main event level.
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  #29  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Please explain how Reigns Vs. Lesnar is a money match. Please do. Because I'm not interested in seeing another rub for Roman Reigns while all others don't get big rubs anymore. How's Roman Reigns Vs. Brock Lesnar best for business? And why should I have to see if it's best for business or not? I should be interested. And I'm not.
I know you pretty much hate Reigns and Lesnar, I get that and I can understand that, but you know as well as I do that Lesnar vs. Reigns at WrestleMania will be a money match. C'mon, don't let personal dislike cause you to ignore something that you know deep down inside is the truth. Lesnar matches do draw and Roman Reigns gets a huge response; whether Reigns is cheered as a babyface or booed as a heel, he gets people's attention and keeps their interests by consistently putting on good matches. Many, including myself, went into Lesnar vs. Reigns I with very low hopes and it turned out to be a pretty damn good match, the live crowd was eating it up as the match was highly physical and had a great deal of drama to it.

Lesnar vs. Reigns II is a match that I'm not really looking forward to not because I don't think it'll be a great match, I actually think it will if it's along the lines of their first go around, it's because this is a match Vince has pushed so hard for at the expense of a lot of the rest of the roster. I know you want to build up your top guys, but I'm someone who's just kind of over the whole human juggernaut, alpha male, chest slappin', dick swingin' bullshit that Vince McMahon absolutely ADORES and can't get enough of. To me, it's so blatantly one dimensional 80s and I'd rather see guys with character and personality about them that's more than just "I'm a bad muthafucka with big ol' muscles."
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  #30  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:36 AM
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What if WWE did this....

Stroman pins Kane to become Universal Champion

Lesnar enters Rumble at #30 but is eliminated by Reigns. Lesnar then distracts Reigns allowing Cena to win the Rumble!!!

Wrestlemania (Raw Side)
Braun Stroman vs. John Cena (Universal Title)
Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar (Cage Match)

I think if the Reigns-Lesnar match isn't for the Title then Roman would have a better chance not to get booed out of the building if he wins.
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