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  #11  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:06 PM
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Bret Hart is easily one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. That can't be argued. However, one can make an argument about his being the overall best. I don't have a problem with Bret's ring work, microphone skills, or personality. He had all three is spades. I also never really considered him to be a small guy. He wasn't tall, but he was a hell of a lot bigger than guys like Benoit, Guererro, and CM Punk.

I like Bret, I just don't think he can be considered a major crossover success. (In America, Canada is a different story). Bret's amazing, but he didn't become the superstar Vince needed in the early 90's. He was never able to fill the void that Hogan left. To be fair, neither could HBK or Taker. Thats the only thing that knocks Bret down a peg in my book. He never became the mainstream cash cow like Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena.

Bret is certainly an all time great. He's in the top 95% of wrestlers in history. He belongs right there with Taker, HBK, Mick Foley, Randy Savage, Flair, and Triple H. However, he doesn't belong in the 99% with Hogan, Rock, Austin, and Cena. It certainly doesn't make him overrated, but it does keep him from being one of the truly elite names in wrestling history.
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  #12  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TUFFY54 View Post
Bret Hart is easily one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. That can't be argued. However, one can make an argument about his being the overall best. I don't have a problem with Bret's ring work, microphone skills, or personality. He had all three is spades. I also never really considered him to be a small guy. He wasn't tall, but he was a hell of a lot bigger than guys like Benoit, Guererro, and CM Punk.

I like Bret, I just don't think he can be considered a major crossover success. (In America, Canada is a different story). Bret's amazing, but he didn't become the superstar Vince needed in the early 90's. He was never able to fill the void that Hogan left. To be fair, neither could HBK or Taker. Thats the only thing that knocks Bret down a peg in my book. He never became the mainstream cash cow like Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena.

Bret is certainly an all time great. He's in the top 95% of wrestlers in history. He belongs right there with Taker, HBK, Mick Foley, Randy Savage, Flair, and Triple H. However, he doesn't belong in the 99% with Hogan, Rock, Austin, and Cena. It certainly doesn't make him overrated, but it does keep him from being one of the truly elite names in wrestling history.

I disagree... Bret had some mainstream success... he would do the nightly talk shows, regis and kelly, and he was even a guest star on the Simpsons, the biggest show ever. I think he was on Madtv as well (the poor mans SNL but it was still on a major network)... He had a stint on some show that again wasn't huge but was on a major network. Bret had a pretty good amount of mainstream exposure considering he was on top at a time when the business was at its lowest. Definitely more than Shawn.

I think bret served his purpose in the 90s perfectly. He helped keep the business afloat during the steroids scandal. He had a huge amount of overseas success which helped as well. Bret may have been one of the hugest overseas stars of all time, including the guys you listed. I know in India, Germany, and South Africa he was and is HUGE. All of this is what wrestling needed in the 90s. Also, his role in helping usher in the Austin era cannot be overlooked. While it was the feud with McMahon that really set it off, without Bret, neither would have been in a position to make that angle what it was. I think Bret was a better asset than most in the 90s because he had that role model factor to him, he was someone the kids could look up to and the company could forward as a respectable role model.
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2011, 10:40 PM
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I think Bret is underrated and Tuffy's post proved it to me.

Bret Hart is not in the grouping with Mick Foley, he is in the group with Flair and Savage.

Bret Hart's legacy is diminished because of the era he got stuck main eventing in. Hogan was gone, the WWF tried the new generation and had a bunch of terrible gimmicks and bad wrestlers. Interest in wrestling itself wained, not just the WWF where Bret was. Had he stayed in the WWF after the Montreal incident he would have been part of the surge in the ratings war for the Federation.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2011, 01:09 AM
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Bret Hart IS NOT overrated, Hulk Hogan IS overrated Bret did everything he was asked he never bitched or complained about who he did or did not want to work with unlike that power hungry bastard Hulk Hogan, Hulk used his power and got in the ear of Vince McMahon in the WWF then Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo in WCW to keep his world title and to keep him a top drawl but Bret had to earn his way up to the ladder first winning the WWF Tag Team Belts with The Anvil then moving on to a singles career Hulk Hogan NEVER held the IC Title it was always the WWF Title sure he finally won his 1st tag title with Edge in the 2000's but in the 80's and 90's he only held the WWF Title Bret had to wait til that no good son of bitch left the WWF to capture his first WWF title, I know I will get a lot of heat from this but the people who say Bret is overrated you all must be Hogan Marks Hogan SUCKED Bret is and will for ever be A hell of a lot better then Hulk Hogan will ever be IMO .

Last edited by ECW Sandman : 09-16-2011 at 01:11 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2011, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ECW Sandman View Post
Bret Hart IS NOT overrated, Hulk Hogan IS overrated Bret did everything he was asked he never bitched or complained about who he did or did not want to work with unlike that power hungry bastard Hulk Hogan, Hulk used his power and got in the ear of Vince McMahon in the WWF then Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo in WCW to keep his world title and to keep him a top drawl but Bret had to earn his way up to the ladder first winning the WWF Tag Team Belts with The Anvil then moving on to a singles career Hulk Hogan NEVER held the IC Title it was always the WWF Title sure he finally won his 1st tag title with Edge in the 2000's but in the 80's and 90's he only held the WWF Title Bret had to wait til that no good son of bitch left the WWF to capture his first WWF title, I know I will get a lot of heat from this but the people who say Bret is overrated you all must be Hogan Marks Hogan SUCKED Bret is and will for ever be A hell of a lot better then Hulk Hogan will ever be IMO .
ONE PERIOD! I can't wait to see how great your posts are when you learn to write. Shit like this is so embarrassing its pathetic. Bret never bitched or complained huh? I'm gonna assume your not counting the fact that the Screwjob only happened because he flat out told Vince he wouldn't drop the title to Shawn. Holy shit I don't even really want to read your post because it's so goddamned stupid. I'm just gonna hit some points:

-Your mad that Hogan never had to be IC champ: Why exactly would you put the biggest moneymaker in wrestling history in the mid card?

-Hogan was only a success because he got in Vince's ear: You are aware of the fact that Vince brought Hogan to the WWE and had him beat the Iron Sheik when he was a nobody don't you? I supposed Hogan also tricked all those people into buying millions of dollars worth of tickets and merchandise. I guess you think he also tricked all those network TV execs into putting him on prime time shows.

-You claim Bret had to work his way up before getting the title: This is true. As it is for 99% of main eventers jackass. Do you forget that Hogan worked in the WWE for about 3 years as a heel getting his ass kicked by Andre every night. More importantly, are you implying that Bret Hart was ready to be world champion in 1986? If you are, then you have some serious issues. I suppose you think Shawn Michaels should have won the title in 88 also.

-Bret had to wait for that "son of a bitch" to leave before he got the title: He sure did. Bret got the belt as soon as Hogan wasn't on top. All he had to do was wait for Warrior, Slaughter, Taker, Savage, and Flair to get through with it first. More importantly, you do realize that HOGAN WAS WORKING FOR THE WWE WHILE BRET WAS CHAMPION.

Your post is a joke and so are you. More importantly, your dumb ass took a thread about Bret Hart and tried to completely ramrod it into what you wanted to bitch about.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2011, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TUFFY54 View Post
ONE PERIOD!I'm gonna assume your not counting the fact that the Screwjob only happened because he flat out told Vince he wouldn't drop the title to Shawn.
This is sort of a misleading way to describe what happened. Bret had creative control (given to him by Vince) for the final 30 days of his contract should he leave (which Vince asked him to do to save money) and Bret exercised it, not to refuse to job to Shawn, but to refuse to do it in Canada. That was his right based on the contract Vince created.

Quote:
-Your mad that Hogan never had to be IC champ: Why exactly would you put the biggest moneymaker in wrestling history in the mid card?
Agree. Why would they have made Hogan go get the IC strap. I'll further address this after your next point...

Quote:
-Hogan was only a success because he got in Vince's ear: You are aware of the fact that Vince brought Hogan to the WWE and had him beat the Iron Sheik when he was a nobody don't you? I supposed Hogan also tricked all those people into buying millions of dollars worth of tickets and merchandise. I guess you think he also tricked all those network TV execs into putting him on prime time shows.
You actually undersell Hogan here. He WASN'T a nobody. He was a huge star for the AWA, constantly in the WORLD title picture, only falling short by "screwjob" finishes. When he was poached finally to go to the WWF it wasn't so Vince could have him start at the bottom and work his way up. He was poaching a star on the precipice. People who say Hogan was only a star because of Vince or whatever completely fail to understand what happened in the 1980s. Go watch tapes of Hogan in the AWA and listen to the crowds behind him. Go watch him in Japan before Hulkamania and listen to the crowds. Hogan had "it" from day one. It wasn't artificial or contrived. He is the single brightest star the business has ever seen. Backing up your last point, why put this man in the IC title picture when you can make more money with him in the world?
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2011, 07:46 AM
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I will be the first replier to the OP that's willing to take the other side...

Yes. Bret Hart is overrated. Not egregiously so, but he is. The biggest issue I have with Bret Hart is that he actually believes his tagline of being the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be. First, having such a motto is INCREDIBLY narcissistic, vain-glorious, even. When you call yourself the best ever, you better damn well be.

First: just because he was trained in the dungeon doesn't mean jack shit. So did Bruce and Keith Hart. Are they two of the best wrestlers ever? Fuck no. There have been some good wrestlers who came out of the dungeon, but there have also been some bad ones. Being a graduate of the dungeon doesn't make you anything.

Bret Hart is not the best technical wrestler ever. This wouldn't be a problem if all of his fans didn't claim he was, but they do, and he is not. He is a good technical wrestler. But he didn't do anything that Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Dean Malenko, Kurt Angle and some other guys didn't do. He isn't any better than any of those guys, but listening to him and his fans, you would think he invented wrestling.

His mic work was mediocre. Why people insist he was good on the mic, I have no idea. He stumbled words, said the wrong words, spoke in a way like he didn't know where he was going (ie, it didn't really flow well together), and delivered same speech every time. blahblah Canada, blahblah grew up in dungeon, blahblah respect, blahblah best there was, blahblah Champion. There. That is every Bret Hart promo ever.

If we are using a grade scale, Bret Hart is a B+ to A- wrestler who thinks he deserves an A+ for being pretty good. Bret Hart did not suck as a wrestler, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that through a lot of hype, the legend of Bret Hart far exceeds the reality. He was very good. But he was not nearly as great as both he and his fans claim. So, yes. Overrated.
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Last edited by Davi323 : 09-16-2011 at 07:51 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECW Sandman View Post
Bret Hart IS NOT overrated, Hulk Hogan IS overrated Bret did everything he was asked he never bitched or complained about who he did or did not want to work with unlike that power hungry bastard Hulk Hogan, Hulk used his power and got in the ear of Vince McMahon in the WWF then Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo in WCW to keep his world title and to keep him a top drawl but Bret had to earn his way up to the ladder first winning the WWF Tag Team Belts with The Anvil then moving on to a singles career Hulk Hogan NEVER held the IC Title it was always the WWF Title sure he finally won his 1st tag title with Edge in the 2000's but in the 80's and 90's he only held the WWF Title Bret had to wait til that no good son of bitch left the WWF to capture his first WWF title, I know I will get a lot of heat from this but the people who say Bret is overrated you all must be Hogan Marks Hogan SUCKED Bret is and will for ever be A hell of a lot better then Hulk Hogan will ever be IMO .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECW Sandman View Post
Bret Hart IS NOT overrated, Hulk Hogan IS overrated Bret did everything he was asked he never bitched or complained about who he did or did not want to work with unlike that power hungry bastard Hulk Hogan.
Alright, the kid gloves are off right now. Most posters I give the benefit of the doubt and don't jump down the throats of. However, you deserve a royal reaming you stupid ass troll. And because of your user name I can't WAIT to put this back in your face.

First off, you have no true grasp of who said what or who did what backstage in regards to how the wrestling business truly is ran. Don't let the internet or those glorified kayfabe pieces like autobiography tell-alls, shoot interviews and DVD retrospectives be your source. That's no different than using Wikipedia to write a term paper. As entertaining as those books are to read and those DVDs are to watch, I still doubt any of them being 100 percent legitimate pieces, period.

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Hulk used his power and got in the ear of Vince McMahon in the WWF then Eric Bischoff and Vince Russo in WCW to keep his world title and to keep him a top drawl
First of all, I am sure the word you meant to use was draw, not drawl. Drawl means the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dictionary
A drawl is a perceived feature of some varieties of spoken English, and generally indicates longer vowel sounds and/or diphthongs. Varieties of English which are said to feature pronounced drawls include Southern American English, Californian English and Australian English, especially Broad Australian English.
The Southern Drawl, or the diphthongization or triphthongization of the traditional short front vowels as in the words pat, pet, and pit: these develop a glide up from their original starting position to [j] and, in some cases, back down to schwa.
/ś/ → [śj(ə)]
/ɛ/ → [ɛj(ə)]
/ɪ/ → [ɪj(ə)]
Judging from your word choices and the argument you stand on, you must have a special drawl of your own. I assume itís one that only you can truly understand when you decide to talk out of your ass with unfounded points.

Whether you realize it or not Hulk Hogan spent a good seven years paying his dues in the wrestling business. In that time, he had a couple of regional title reigns for Southeastern Championship Wrestling and mind you he had several shots at the WWF World Title as a heel in his first WWF run, I must add he came up short every time in those efforts. Not to mention like TUFFY54 said he did get his ass handed to him by Andre The Giant very often. He also plied his wrestling skills in Japan and earned the respect and esteem of that crowd, something I doubt your troll ass could appreciate. After all if you appreciate traditional and pure wrestling so much what the hell are you doing with the handle ďECW SandmanĒ? Iíll get back to that later, believe me.

Also letís not forget that Hogan also came up short in his quest to win the AWA World Title but he connected with the crowd so much that he was the choice of the people to be the new World Champion for that promotion. I donít know the whole circumstances outside of what the tell-alls say in regards to Verne Gagne and Hoganís relationship behind the scenes. But thatís another story for another day. However, I can believe enough to know that obviously Vince knew if he brought Hogan back to his version of the WWF that he now owned instead of his father that he could do what the AWA seemed unwilling to do.

And believe me Iím confident enough to say that it was a team effort with Vince and Hogan if what they say about Vinceís convictions and judgment are true I doubt seriously that Vince would just let Hogan dictate policy in the WWF so easily. Vince was obviously willing to go along with the ride as well because he knew there was something about Hogan that separated him from every other wrestler in the industry. So it only made sense for Vince to push this guy for as long as he could.

Same held true for Hoganís jump to WCW, he still had something to offer wrestling, so why not take advantage of what you can with your star power? And by the way that word you meant to use ďdrawĒ, you canít force yourself to be a top draw, itís either the people want to pay to see you or they donít and for a few good solid years the people in WCW still paid to see Hogan. Sure he could flex his ďcreative controlĒ to make himself a champion if he wants to but if the people arenít paying to see him then heís not making himself a top draw? The ticket buyers are the ones who determine who the draws are dumbass.

But in retrospect WCWís ratings were still solid even when they were losing ground to the WWF no matter what all the internet armchair experts want to say. So even when Hoganís momentum after the nWo was waning a bit he was still one of the top names whether you like it or not. As far as the Vince Russo factor goes and again this is where Hoganís part in everything related to WCWís downfall is overrated, if what they say about Hoganís creative control is true then why the hell did Vince Russo and David Arquette ever get to win the WCW World Titles?

Hogan in your deluded words being the ďpower hungry son of a bitchĒ he was and Iím not saying he wasnít ever eager to want to be champion because he sure did win the title a lot in WCW. But he was still with WCW during both those reigns (even though he was off TV for Russoís win) I am sure he could have stopped that fro happening if what the so called ďinternet wrestling expertsĒ like yourself say is true about how much policy Hogan got to dictate.

Quote:
..but Bret had to earn his way up to the ladder first winning the WWF Tag Team Belts with The Anvil then moving on to a singles career Hulk Hogan NEVER held the IC Title it was always the WWF Title sure he finally won his 1st tag title with Edge in the 2000's but in the 80's and 90's he only held the WWF Title...
Ok, now like I said earlier Hogan had a couple of regional title reigns on his resume and was making a name for himself all over the United States and in Japan as a wrestler. So youíre going to seriously tell me that it was an injustice that after working with solid hands like Gorilla Monsoon, Andre The Giant, Bob Backlund, Nick Bockwinkel, Blackjack Mulligan and Antonio Inoki that he would become WWF World Champion after working with those legends who from that list are all in some shape or form Pro Wrestling Hall Of Famers? Are you fín serious? Yes we know Bret had to earn his way up the ladder but keep this in mind Bret also had to fight the accusations of nepotism in his training ground of Stampede Wrestling.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe just maybe Vince really had to test Bret to see how reliable a hand he would be in the WWF and not just someone that was being protected and overpromoted by his father. Thatís not an affront to Bret or Stu, but itís something to keep in mind when we consider the fact that the majority of Bretís career up to that point was in Stampede Wrestling. To my knowledge Hulk Hogan never had a a familial connection to the wrestling business. Thatís not to say Bret Hart wasnít great after all heís one of my favorites up there with Hulk Hogan but letís be honest being born into the business gives you a leg up, granted Bret still proved himself and in the end is still one of the greatest but donít sit on your self-righteous ass and feed me this crock about your anti-Hogan spiel.

I am really not going to delve into the background story of how Hogan got into the business but from the stories I hear it wasnít a pleasant experience. Again it could be hype to build up the character but in the mystique laden era of yesteryear in wrestling you just never know whatís reality and whatís fiction. To an extent with the internet we still sort of have that difficulty of separating reality from fiction but itís a much more ambiguous sort of thing now in my view. Anyway, if those stories about Hogan paying his dues are true, Iíd like to see how some internet troll like yourself would fare...itís all about the timing man. Had Hogan arrived later into the wrestling business he probably would have gone on the same career track as a guy like Bret having to earn his stripes through the lower title divisions. Also, these days you see guys going straight for the World Title (i.e. Sheamus and years prior Brock Lesnar did it) and those guys put in less time in the actual pro wrestling business by comparison to Hogan.

Quote:
Bret had to wait til that no good son of bitch left the WWF to capture his first WWF title, I know I will get a lot of heat from this but the people who say Bret is overrated you all must be Hogan Marks Hogan SUCKED Bret is and will for ever be A hell of a lot better then Hulk Hogan will ever be IMO .
What a stupid ass you are proving to be with every line you type. Yes Hogan went and took his hiatus from WWF and Bret took the best of an opportunity to win the World Title but do keep in mind there was no rush on this happening considering that Ric Flair and Randy Savage were feuding for it prior to Bret winning. If Bret was such a high priority to make champion right away then he would have beaten Savage and not Flair. Itís one thing to not like Hulk Hogan but now you are just reaching for more ways to just hate him without any true justification. So no you are not getting heat because of your dislike for Hogan thatís fine, we understand you donít like someone but if you want to have a valid argument on this forum then you better be prepared to actually know how to back it up.

You clearly donít have a strong argument though, you are acting the way you are because you HATE Hulk Hogan blindly. That you deserve heat for. I would say the same thing to you in regards to any other professional wrestler, period. For instance I have told people time and again I was never a fan of Bob Backlund period, however I have always respected his place in wrestling history and whether I liked it or not he was a top draw for several years. To a vast majority at that time in wrestling, he was a guy worthy of holding that title because of the impact he had on the fans. Would I have rather seen someone like Pedro Morales or Bruno Sammartino win the strap back from Billy Graham, yes to be honest, I would. However, Backlund got it because he was Vince Sr.ís choice and the crowd agreed with it, much like Hogan was Vince Jr.ís choice and yes the crowd agreed with that too.

But again this is all coming from a user named ECW Sandman, if you want to talk about someone who in the ring was completely ridiculous it was The Sandman. I saw that guy once at an indy show in upstate New York for this fed called 2CW. He came in and within two minutes they had to rush the match to an abrupt end because he was too inebriated to continue wrestling. Say what you want about Hulk Hogan but I never remember him pulling a stunt like that in his career. Whether you liked Hogan or not, when he was scheduled to be on the show, he was at least in the right frame of mind to go out there and do his thing.

So yes in the end, I am maintaining a strong stance on my feelings towards both Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart, they are both two of my favorite wrestlers and I like them both for different reasons. I will gladly stand strong on my stance in regards to both of their impacts in wrestling and their status as legends. In regards to Bret Hart I had said similar things to another user on this thread who thought the same way about Bret Hart that you thought about Hulk Hogan. Iíve done it before and I will do it again, especially when I read tripe like you have just posted. God, youíre a complete moron and yes I am going to insult you because you deserve the heat you might get for your opinion. Personally I donít feel you can have a honest to goodness debate with anyone on here, therefore you just need to be derided.
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Old 09-16-2011, 02:20 PM
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Bret Hart overrated because he couldn't work the mic good? Please. Bret had natural charisma. Everytime he came out he got a big ovation. That's the main thing you need. If you get yourself over with the crowd you're in the right direction. Not only that but Bret was one hell of a wrestler. His "pink and black" look was very original and the sunglasses were a very good touch Bret definitely had a good look in my opinion. It's just like what Triple H said last Monday night on Raw. It's all about getting over. And Bret was VERY over. His charisma was uncanny and the best part was that he got all the crowd reaction without having to cut a mean promo every week. Like I said Bret had natural charisma and great in ring talent. The main reason for a wrestler to try having good mic skills is for him to be appealing and get over with the crowd. Bret did it without the mic work part. His character was so appealing to all the fans back then and he was great in the ring. He's definitely not overrated in my opinion. Hell he was underrated if anything. I hate how it all went down for him back in 1997 when Vince had nothing for his character and it all ended with the Montreal screwjob. I truly feel that Bret he deserved a longer, greater, and more memorable run with the WWE/F. Not taking anything away from his run but it definitely should have ended much, much better.

Last edited by The Future Rises : 09-16-2011 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:14 PM
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I would say that Bret Hart is neither over-rated or under-rated, I'd say he's one of the few that is properly rated. He's not the best ever, but he's right there. I'd say he might even be able to get to that point still if he'd just become an on-screen manager.

Hogan, Savage, Rock, Austin, Andre... that might be all I can think of that I would say are definitely better than the Hitman. Another way of putting it is that I can count on one hand the guys that are better than Bret Hart.

I think the people that yapyapyap about how charismatic & great he was on the mic are over-rating The Hitman. Back in the early 90's the guys on the brink of superstardom and the brink of becoming the faces of the company were Bret Hart, the first to realize that dream, HBK, who did it a few years later, and the man who would have been first, and then again second after Bret Hart, had he not injured his lower back, and that was Curt Hennig. When you compare these 3 stars to each other, Bret Hart was noticeably worse than the other two on the mic. Hart & Hennig & Shawn were all basically a tied on mat skills. Hart & Hennig were mat technicians with no other equals (in their prime at the same time as they were) and Shawn was more of a Savage type wrestler, a very strong mat technician but his specialty lay in high flying moves to which there was no equal to him (in their prime at the same time as he was).

Hennig, not Hitman was the man chasing Hogan. We all know that Hogan & Hitman have little respect for each other, and it's well documented that Bret Hart always fancied himself as a true successor to Hogan, and he was right. But Hogan, even as far back as his days in the AWA had Curt Hennig on his tail succeeding every move that Hogan made. It's part of the reason that Hogan chose not to drop the WWF title to Perfect even earlier than was originally slated. Ultimately, all 3 had to wait until Hogan was no longer in the title scene before they were given a chance. Perfect was taken out of the race because of his injury, so Hitman was the first to get it, then Perfect was scheduled to get it again and then got injured again, closing forever his chances to be a world title holder and face of the company.

In comes HBK who had been waiting in the wings. HBK was far more charismatic that Bret Hart, and arguably even more so than Perfect. He was certainly the flashiest wrestler in the ring since Randy Savage. The problem was that when it came right down to it Bret Hart screwed Bret Hart by agreeing to turn heel. After his relevance as a heel was played out no one really knew how to use Hart again, and that's why Vince wanted Bret gone.

It's a credit to Hart that he made it as far as he did. With all the crap he was involved in, it's really speaks volumes to his in-ring ability and presence that he's not much lower on the list. Even so, I would easily say that he's better than Flair, HBK, HHH, Taker, Cena, and unfortunately even Perfect. (I still say Perfect would be the best of the 3 if he had stayed healthy)
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