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  #21  
Old 09-17-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_hardcore View Post
sorry i disagree four horseman were done the nwo was perfect the way things happened except for that one nitro when ddp was about to join and got jumped from behind that was the only time where they dropped the ball with the nwo ddp should have joined the nwo red. i loved everything about the nwo you just never knewwho was going to join next. it was the absolute greatest thing to happen to wrestling! it was perfect the way it was.
It was the greatest thing to happen to wrestling at the time. But no, it was far from perfect. I disagree with you entirely. The nWo was great in the beginning, but then they lost direction and started expanding like crazy. Everyone was joining the nWo! Eventually it wasn't really shocking or exciting seeing who was going to join the nWo, because it got to a point where it had happened so often and been watered down so much it was losing its meaning. By that time the real question was: who was left in WCW?

It got to the point where nWo seemed to far outweigh the WCW roster, and there were so few WCW guys to even stand up and fight against the nWo. So, because of that, the whole purpose of the angle was lost. They NEEDED the Four Horsemen. The Horsemen was the very foundation of WCW, the heart and soul of it, and that was important when you had this huge invading force trying to take over the company and change what it was. Kill its tradition and everything it had been before, and the Four Horsemen stood for those things more then anyone. You also should've had guys like Sting, Lex Luger, among many others who were key players in the history of WCW remain loyal and fight to save their company. Sting and Luger should NEVER have joined the nWo. Sting fought to kill it, to oppose everything it was, and then suddenly he joins nWo Wolfplac? Huh?

There needed to be a group representing WCW, simple as that, and the Horsemen were it. They were never utilized right during that angle, they were always pushed nowhere, and they were buried quickly when they did stand up to the nWo. That should not have happened. They could've made stars out of the Horsemen as faces while making stars out of the nWo as heels. They didn't.

When the nWo DID break apart into two factions it was already far too big and overcrowded. They should've used these two factions to cut the fat and get rid of a lot of talent that just didn't need to be in the nWo and didn't add anything to it.

NWO Hollywood should've represented Hollywood Hogan and his goals, and should've been the old stars who were still clinging to their spotlight and believing they made wrestling and deserved to rule it. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Ted Dibiase, even Curt Henning. The Steiner brothers would've been good here, for sure Scott Steiner as the second coming of Hogan. The Disciple would've fit here. They could still have had some young guys to flesh out their numbers and ones who fit and followed the ideology of Hollywood Hogan.. like Buff Bagwell and the Giant (who had been claimed to be Andre's son, anyway, at one time).

NWO Wolfpac should've been the younger stars, the present and future, who were bringing in the new generation's movement. That should've been led by Kevin Nash and Scott Hall without question. Syxx shouldve been there. And guys like Konnan, DDP, and others would've kept the Wolfpac the way it was, like a version of the Kliq.


-----


On another note: I think Eric Bischoff should NOT have joined the nWo. I really do. Or, at least, if he did it should've been much later. I really think they should've kept Ted Dibiase as the financial backer and really developed that and Dibiase in WCW. Dibiase is a legend! The guy clould've been so much more then he ever was in the nWo. He could've been exactly what Eric Bischoff became, but Ted Dibiase would've done it TEN times better. Dibiase had the money, could manipulate, and they could've played off him buying talent, buying titles, and trying to buy the network's loyalty to the nWo. Have him clashing with those in power of WCW and it would've been much more interesting. Not to mention the segments with Dibiase, and the promos he could've cut playing this role, would've been great.


Shit, when they finally did create a SECOND show, they could've made it into an angle where Ted Dibiase finally manipulated the Network into giving the nWo their own show. And then you could've really had two shows competing against one another, WCW and the nWo. And THEN have people jumping ship back and forth, have the two brands at war with one another over whose going to survive. Far better!

When Eric Bischoff joined the nWo, the angle jumped the shark.

Last edited by MisterRob : 09-17-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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  #22  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:36 PM
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i think after the split, you couldve gotten rid of alot of the dead weight and capped off the feud at war games : nWo vs nWo with the stip that whichever team loses disbands as an nWo unit, id have

nWo Hollywood: Hogan, Stiener, Giant, Henning

vs

nWo Wolfpac: Nash, Hall, Konnan, Booker T

have nWo wolfpac win, they continue on to be a dx army of sorts, turning into full fledged faces, have hogans crew dwindle down to him, bischoff, disciple giant and stiener with a new name like just "hollywood" or something as a platform to elevate the giant and BPP to main event status...
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2011, 10:49 AM
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Personally I think a big part of the booking mistakes WCW made was separating the NWO into NWO Hollywood & NWO Wolfpac, they basically encompasssed the entire roster, the whole idea made little sense, especially since Hogan only appeared part time and his group was filled mostly with the mid carders and jobbers that had been added to the NWO to protect Hogan and Nash from actualy hacing to lose a match once in awhile.

Instead of adding people, they had the right idea in early 99 when Nash & Hogan reconciled and they purged all the mid carders and hangers ons from the group, re creating a lean NWO elite machine with Hogan, Nash, Hall, Scott Steiner, and I think Buff Bagwell was still with them.

Of course, as soon as that started gaining traction, WCW @#$%canned it, breaking up the group, having Hogan and Nash both go fan favorite, which pretty much killed all the momentum the company had for the NWO vs Flair fued not to mention any rematches Goldberg might have had with Hogan or Nash. Eventutally they did put Goldberg vs Nash on the mid card of a non-major PPV I think and let Goldberg go over but how you could squander that re match like that was insane.

So my answer is No One - the two groups was a dumb idea, convuluted, ruined the dynamic of the NWO vs WCW fued, re uniting and slimming down the roster was the right move. WCW should have stuck with that

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterRob View Post
It was the greatest thing to happen to wrestling at the time. But no, it was far from perfect. I disagree with you entirely. The nWo was great in the beginning, but then they lost direction and started expanding like crazy. Everyone was joining the nWo! Eventually it wasn't really shocking or exciting seeing who was going to join the nWo, because it got to a point where it had happened so often and been watered down so much it was losing its meaning. By that time the real question was: who was left in WCW?

It got to the point where nWo seemed to far outweigh the WCW roster, and there were so few WCW guys to even stand up and fight against the nWo. So, because of that, the whole purpose of the angle was lost. They NEEDED the Four Horsemen. The Horsemen was the very foundation of WCW, the heart and soul of it, and that was important when you had this huge invading force trying to take over the company and change what it was. Kill its tradition and everything it had been before, and the Four Horsemen stood for those things more then anyone. You also should've had guys like Sting, Lex Luger, among many others who were key players in the history of WCW remain loyal and fight to save their company. Sting and Luger should NEVER have joined the nWo. Sting fought to kill it, to oppose everything it was, and then suddenly he joins nWo Wolfplac? Huh?

There needed to be a group representing WCW, simple as that, and the Horsemen were it. They were never utilized right during that angle, they were always pushed nowhere, and they were buried quickly when they did stand up to the nWo. That should not have happened. They could've made stars out of the Horsemen as faces while making stars out of the nWo as heels. They didn't.

When the nWo DID break apart into two factions it was already far too big and overcrowded. They should've used these two factions to cut the fat and get rid of a lot of talent that just didn't need to be in the nWo and didn't add anything to it.

NWO Hollywood should've represented Hollywood Hogan and his goals, and should've been the old stars who were still clinging to their spotlight and believing they made wrestling and deserved to rule it. Guys like Hogan, Savage, Ted Dibiase, even Curt Henning. The Steiner brothers would've been good here, for sure Scott Steiner as the second coming of Hogan. The Disciple would've fit here. They could still have had some young guys to flesh out their numbers and ones who fit and followed the ideology of Hollywood Hogan.. like Buff Bagwell and the Giant (who had been claimed to be Andre's son, anyway, at one time).

NWO Wolfpac should've been the younger stars, the present and future, who were bringing in the new generation's movement. That should've been led by Kevin Nash and Scott Hall without question. Syxx shouldve been there. And guys like Konnan, DDP, and others would've kept the Wolfpac the way it was, like a version of the Kliq.


-----


On another note: I think Eric Bischoff should NOT have joined the nWo. I really do. Or, at least, if he did it should've been much later. I really think they should've kept Ted Dibiase as the financial backer and really developed that and Dibiase in WCW. Dibiase is a legend! The guy clould've been so much more then he ever was in the nWo. He could've been exactly what Eric Bischoff became, but Ted Dibiase would've done it TEN times better. Dibiase had the money, could manipulate, and they could've played off him buying talent, buying titles, and trying to buy the network's loyalty to the nWo. Have him clashing with those in power of WCW and it would've been much more interesting. Not to mention the segments with Dibiase, and the promos he could've cut playing this role, would've been great.


Shit, when they finally did create a SECOND show, they could've made it into an angle where Ted Dibiase finally manipulated the Network into giving the nWo their own show. And then you could've really had two shows competing against one another, WCW and the nWo. And THEN have people jumping ship back and forth, have the two brands at war with one another over whose going to survive. Far better!

When Eric Bischoff joined the nWo, the angle jumped the shark.
I actually think Bischoff was a great addition to the group because it gave them an aura of invinceability that other great factions never had, the fact they guy running the company was pulling for them and protecting them. I remember his great promo where he forced the Steiners to vacate the Tag Titles to Outsiders, not too mention when he fired referree Randy Anderson in front of his wife and children. Stroke of genius having Anderson get his job back after Easy E lost his presidency to Flair and use him to ref the hair vs hair match pitting Flair's son David vs Eric allowing him to screw Bischoff out of the win.

I think the angle lost steam when the two groups split, especially since NWO Hollywood was headed by Hogan and he didn't work full time. I definately liked the "How can we beat these guys??" dynamic of having Bischoff backing them, and I think WCW wasted a goldmine worth of matches and money by not continuing the angle after Bischoff lost the presidency, have the group re-form and be more ruthless than ever but now you have your arch enemy in the Presidents seat pulling strings against you, not protecting you. Fans would have watched to see how the NWO would survive without that power, and WCW had a pretty good roster with Sting and Brett Hart soon returning from injuries, plus DDP and of course Flair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justtxyank View Post
I can tell you weren't actually watching WCW if you think DDP was undertilized during the Flock days and wasn't made a star until 1999. 1997 he turned super face by refusing to join the nWo and taking out Hall and Nash. He then had a high profile feud with Randy Savage, one of the biggest stars in the world that main evented a major ppv. He became the leader of "WCW" stepping in for Ric Flair to beat Curt Hennig for the US title after Flair was gone from the company for a short time. He went on to feud with Hogan over the summer, teaming with Karl Malone and Jay Leno in the two most hyped matches of the summer for WCW while Goldberg was busy defending the title in the undercard. He then went on to win War Games on the ppv where the Flock was disbanded. He then main evented Havoc with Goldberg, Goldberg's first REAL title defense on ppv. All this was before 1999.

I think you overrate what the Flock was though. This was a group of brainwashed lackeys. The group's entire purpose was to put over Raven. Why would you lower the standing of a guy like Bret Hart to put him in a mid-card stable like that? It's not about lack of creativity, it's about why would this particular "creative" idea actually produce something interesting for the character? The better idea for WCW was to put Bret Hart in a mid-card group with a bunch of no-names and Raven instead of drawing money off him in matches with Savage, Flair, Henning, Hogan (tag) etc?

Edit: By the way, mature up man. Just because I don't like your idea doesn't mean I'm pooping all over it or you. I definitely think things should have been done differently in WCW with Bret Hart and with the Flock, I just disagree with the idea you came up with.
You are dead on RE: DDP - he was languishing in the mid card in 95-96 but when he was the subject of NWO recruitment and turned them down, he got over real quick as a face. He definately had some major fueds with Savage and the whole Hogan/Karl Malone thing, heck the guy was all over mainstream media in 98!!. Now personally I never liked him, but he was definately a major player summer of 97. When he subbed for Flair at Starrcade in 97 Flair had a legitimate broken ankle, suffered in a match vs Hening at the previous PPV (he actually finished the match with a broken, ankle, suffering the injury early on when he atempts a flying axe handle on Hening from the top rope while Hening is on the arena floor). WCW continued to use Flair for interviews on Nitro leading up to Starrcade hoping he would recover enough for the match, when he didn't thwy booked him in a match vs Henning on Nitro but immediately had the NWO attack to "take him out" leading to DDP leading the charge to save him, that's how he got pushed into that match but he was already a main event caliber guy leading into that.
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