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  #11  
Old 06-06-2018, 01:38 AM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Originally Posted by Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. View Post
Here's what the lack of top heels does. WWE kept Joe, Nakamura, Cass and Miz on Smackdown while RAW has Jinder, Corbin, Owens and Zayn. The only real deal in there being Owens and Zayn, who WWE haven't really capitalized on. Elias is actually the one credible heel on RAW right now and that's because of his amazing talent to get heat and control a crowd and not because of anything WWE creative has done.

And as it is expected a place where you have:
a) no top heels
b) too many babyfaces and one of them isn't really working *cough* Roman *cough*
c) no top title

plus: no writing for the woman. "Hey Ronda I like you let's fiiiiiight".

In overall, a show with no direction in anything. No plan for the tag division, no plan for the Universal Championship and no plan for the women.

Rollins, Elias and Braun are keeping the show alive due to their individual work and nothing else. The creative feels like it doesn't really exist.

I would say how even more remarkable it is that Elias is "over" as a heel, considering the "bizarro" commentary on him, when face commentator Michael Cole is his biggest cheerleader, while Corey Graves talks like he hates Elias's guts.

That shows a weakness by creative, or someone in WWE, that they can't push someone as a heel by having the commentators play their "roles" properly and support or jeer accordingly.
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2018, 09:35 AM
shooter_mcgavin shooter_mcgavin is offline
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Originally Posted by Radical View Post
Raw has no top title visible.

The Universal Title is hijacked (choice of WWE Creative) by Brock Lesnar. So when before this Brock experiment has Raw ever had their top title basically invisible from the show and any ongoing storylines? Certainly not ever when they had decent ratings.
Is that a big issue though? Wasn't there a time when Hogan, as World Champion, would only appear sporadically?

Also, as I recall, Shawn Michaels' during his back injury before WM14 barley showed up on RAW and if he did it was only for a few mins.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by shooter_mcgavin View Post
Is that a big issue though? Wasn't there a time when Hogan, as World Champion, would only appear sporadically?

Also, as I recall, Shawn Michaels' during his back injury before WM14 barley showed up on RAW and if he did it was only for a few mins.
Is it a big issue? Let me put it this way. Does it help the overall ratings and interest in the show when the top title and champion rarely appear and also very little development in the storyline is shown? I don't think the extremely rare appearance of Lesnar and the Universal Title are helping.

I believe it's only because WWE has no real competition that they would even fathom to have their top champion rarely appear.

When Hogan did it, I'm assuming you meant when he was with WWF in the late 90s, early 90s, it was different. TV ratings actually weren't very good at all anyway, but Hogan was a massive star so he drew money for PPVs. I don't think Lesnar is as massive of a draw on his own like Hogan was.

As for Michaels, well, you said it - he had a back injury. A legit injury kept him from being there. Now, sure, they could have made him show up, but what would be the reason if he was injured? They could vacate the title, but clearly they had a plan with Michaels to be champ so it wouldn't make sense.

But since the Attitude Era the top title has ALWAYS been one of the focal points of the show. Even when Stone Cold was injured they would vacate the title or get someone else to be crowned champion and continue to the story. This made things more interesting so when Stone Cold came back it was a big pop!


If there is evidence that a rarely appearing champion is good for ratings and interest in the product I'd be happy to look at them.

But it's hard to imagine the late 90s and early 2000s being quite as compelling Raw TV if the WWF Title wasn't in the mix in the main storylines.
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:30 AM
DaleBryan DaleBryan is offline
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Originally Posted by shooter_mcgavin View Post
Is that a big issue though? Wasn't there a time when Hogan, as World Champion, would only appear sporadically?

Also, as I recall, Shawn Michaels' during his back injury before WM14 barley showed up on RAW and if he did it was only for a few mins.
I would say weíre in a completely different time. Hogan didnít have RAW weekly, and for that short period of time leading up to WM14 Raw was only 2 hours, plus HBK had help from Austin/Mike Tyson/Triple H/Vince McMahon to carry that feud.

Currently we are dealing with 3 hours of Raw and Brock has been holding the title for what? 15 months? Itís definitely time for a change. I wouldnít say itís the ONLY problem with Raw right now, but itís definitely a big problem.

You look at how SDL is set up, (and their writing is still bad too but thatís for another time) itís much more clear to see the rankings of superstars. AJ is the man to beat, Nakurmara is the top challenger. Miz, Joe, Bryan, Orton are guys that could be inserted for a championship feud at anytime. With Cass, Jeff Hardy, Rusev, and maybe Almas being guys that will run the mid card or maybe by chance could jump up to the main event scene within the next year.

Raw has SO MANY guys that are just floating around because there is no heavyweight title. Hell, theyíre not even trying to figure out who the number 1 contender is. None of the guys hardly ever even mention chasing the title. Basically thereís Brock with the title. Then thereís Roman. Thatís the picture that Raw has painted and it doesnít feel like anything is changing. They could have Roman as the dominant heel champ if they wanted and it would be so much better IMO. Guys like Finn, Braun, Roode, and Seth all chasing him. But instead no one is chasing anything. Guys are just feuding with each other over twitter beef, or for no reason at all. If the main title was on weekly and wasnít on Brock and on a more believably beatable guy, then that would give so many more guys an actual purpose week-to-week.

I agree with most people about the writing being terrible, Lashley being boring, Bobby Roode needing to turn heel, Raw needing a top heel in general, the womenís division needing better writing, the tag division needing more direction, etc.

Maybe we can credit this all to it being a down time of the year, maybe the MITB matches have kind of put a halt on some feuds. But it comes down to terribly cheesy writing, and the fact that the main event for WM34 was set in stone for a year and they were too stubborn to change it, then Vince waited until a week before Mania to realize that the fans just werenít going to cheer Roman. So he decided last minute to have Brock keep the title. When the right match shouldíve been Brock vs. Braun, but the right outcome shouldíve been anyone but Brock. Then the shake up hurt Raw a lot more than it helped. The biggest pick up was McIntyre and heís in a confusing tag team with Ziggler. Itís a mess. Hopefully thereís more of a direction once MITB is done and then hopefully there is some real changes after Summerslam is done (I.E. Brock loses title).
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2018, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter_mcgavin View Post
Is that a big issue though? Wasn't there a time when Hogan, as World Champion, would only appear sporadically?

Also, as I recall, Shawn Michaels' during his back injury before WM14 barley showed up on RAW and if he did it was only for a few mins.
I don't see it as a big deal as It's something new and makes it feel like a big time deal when he does show up. Plus in the meantime, it help the ic title fell important.

I get why fans would want the main champion on the main show but let's face it, having the champion on the show every week doesn't move the needle as far as the ratings goes. During Owens was the universal champion, the ratings didn't go up because he was there every week and the story weren't better. Same goes for the Ppv buys or network subscription.
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:33 AM
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I stopped watching Raw before Wrestlemania, don't really plan to until Reigns wins the title and the four year experiment is finally over.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2018, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMallard View Post
I stopped watching Raw before Wrestlemania, don't really plan to until Reigns wins the title and the four year experiment is finally over.
Sad thing is Roman Reigns already been a 3 time world champion with quite forgettable title runs. If they had been building him slowly all this time to final win his first that would have been something else. If they had plugged in someone like a Sami Zayn in Reigns position and built him up all this time with his mic skills and conviction, this conspiracy angle would have probably been much more effective. Because of how long Zayn has been on the main Roster and never won a single title of any kind.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:16 PM
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Also fuck Corey Graves's commentary.

Motherfucker switches between heels and faces faster than Sunny in an ECW locker room.

While he can sell Mandy to the moon WHY THE FUCK DOES HE BURY ELIAS?

Stupid ass reality BS
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:50 PM
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'' we don't want to insult your intelligent, Those word we're said by Vince Mcmahon in late 1997 and the decline of the WWE as we know it started that day.

What i'm getting at is that it been 21 years since those famous word that killed keyfabe and pretty much everything that was Pro wrestling and WWE we're spoken. This day change everything because by saying that on TV, he pretty much said to the fans that everybody is a shade of grey and that we don't care if you love of hate a character as long as you react to something. That's the mentality that they continue to use to this day.

The problem is, now we have a lot more smart fans that watch WWE then you had back then. Back then it was a mostly adult male audience but most of them did follow wrestling on the internet, they just enjoy the product for what it was. Now everybody want something different so WWE can really booked a show that's going to be entertaining for everybody, add to that the fact that they have to please the shareholders and sponsors and you got a almost impossible situation for WWE.

I'm not writing this to defend Raw because Raw as been boring for a while now but i'm just saying that we're as responsible for the bad product WWE is offering right now as they are because we all want different thing from them so they're going to go with the lazy route and just produce a by the number show because it's easier to do that right now then to try and please everybody. That's kinda the reality of the situation, they're not good guy and bad guys anymore because that's what we wanted 21 years ago and WWE hasn'T change the narrative since then.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2018, 05:01 PM
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I have been a wrestling fan for over 30 years, attended numerous events put on by various companies (big and small), and for the past few years tried my best to continue watching the "product" on tv, mostly WWE. It was two weeks ago when I decided, for the first time in I can't remember how long ago, that I didn't feel like watching (live or on DVR) Monday Night Raw. The setup for the show has been the same for quite some time, and I just got to the point where why bother watching it: First, Stephanie and/or Angle come to the ring and "welcome us to Monday Night Raw". Then, they "set the hook" for what's coming later in the evening, which is generally understood to be something underwhelming. By that time, it's 8:20, and time for a commercial. Then, we get a bunch of filler (i.e. - pointless tag matches, more commercials, lots of talking, backstage cameos, and usually one halfway decent match). Next thing you know, it's 11:05, and nothing you just watched meant a thing. Vince signed Brock to try and get people to sign up for the Network to see his (squash) matches. Now, your "A" show has an absentee 'Champion'. So rather than put the belt on an everyday performer, someone who can garner a response from the crowd, your main events are constantly random matches that, at the end of the day, serve no purpose. Collect the money, pack up, and move to the next town. And why should Vince change anything? People tune in, and buy tickets and merch every week. Until that stops, nothing will change. That change began for me two weeks ago, when I stopped watching WWE programming altogether. I no longer subscribe to the WWE Network, I don't DVR any of their tv programming, and I don't care about all of the McMahon family endeavors. Stephanie went into business for herself and her "brand" long ago, which is evident in all the, call them what they are, fictitious awards she's getting. HHH is along for the ride - he was "pot committed", and had to buy the cow because time was coming where the milk would not have been free. Shane isn't any better - that whole miraculous recovery in time for WrestleMania was the beginning of the end for me. But they learned from the biggest egomaniac in the history of the business, and will never be able to duplicate him. Wrestling, in general, is dead. It's lost its luster, there are no new storylines to be told, it's cyclical: the McMahons are off tv until SummerSlam, Royal Rumble, and WrestleMania, and make the show about themselves. There is no character development anymore because all the eggs are in one basket. Nothing matters from March-August, and September-February (which is why the McMahons go on vacation from tv). I try to watch Ring of Honor to hope something sticks, but their character development is even worse. If they're betting on Rhett Titus, Silas Young, Dalton Castle and Kenny King to carry the company, they might as well fold now. The three men that have potential are Adam Page, Punishment Martinez and Marty Scurll (even though the whole Bullet Club schtick with Cody is brutal). But that's not enough to keep this viewer's interest. Good luck in your future endeavors, Monday Night Raw; you're going to need it.
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