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  #1  
Old 05-18-2018, 03:40 PM
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Default WCW mid to late 2000 wasn't that bad actually

Re watching all Nitros and I will be the first to admit that up until Bash at the Beach WCW in the year 2000 was HORRIBLE; uninspired angles and nonsensical ones not to mention the hot shotting of the World Title; 8 different guys in a month is terrible by any standards.

On the other hand, after bash when you've replaced Hogan and Luger and DDP and Flair in the top spots with Steiner, Goldberg and Booker T the promise really starts to show, I dont know why they didn't push these guys sooner, perhaps if they had WCW would've been in a better position and could've staved off cancellation; who knows. Now theres still a lot of shit to get through like Russo coming back and getting the WCW title and the nonsensical nWo rehash but underneath all of that they had madman Steiner, fighting champ Booker and unstoppable Goldberg along with Nash and his cool factor and workers like Lance Storm, Mike Awesome, Jarrett, Douglas along with good acts like Kronik I think WCW had a real shot at becoming viable again, does anybody else agree with me here??
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:12 PM
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Oh don't you dare.

Let's start with something simple. Picked a random Nitro review from KB after Bash at the Beach. July 31, 2000 Nitro. KB put this as his overall review of the show:
Quote:
If Sting being burned alive not closing the show isn’t enough to sum this show up, I don’t think anything is going to. You couple that with the Viagra on a pole match and a food fight between the women and it’s clear that Russo is back at his Russoiest. There’s just too much stuff going on here and little of it is worth seeing. One of the few things that was worth seeing was Lance Storm but Nash literally threw him out of the way so we could set up a straitjacket match as part of the reality angle that the world is clamoring for. There’s your latest reason why WCW has less than eight months to go.
Kronik was not a good act. Mike Awesome was booked bizarrely. Russo won the world title BECAUSE HE IS A SUPER MANLY MAN, they still rely on old guys, Harris Twins, matches making no sense, rules not mattering, try to sit through the booking for Starrcade (you can't), the four corners box match, and I could go on.

Nash clearly gave no fucks during this time. He even did a promo once where he pretty much said I have better things to do but I guess I have to be on Nitro. Piper said it best. They kept saying we need to put over young guys and move out of the way. However, we never did because there was no one to put over. They didn't build anyone up. They didn't try. WCW was doing what TNA did. Kept using old guys, replacing them with old, less over guys as they left and never bothered to try and replenish their midcard.

Russo sucked in TNA. Russo sucked in WCW. Russo sucked in WWE but he had Austin, Rock, HHH and others that helped make his shit look good.

One of the worst things about WCW towards the end was that they were spectacularly boring. The storylines were either confusing or boring. Matches were largely boring. Very few redeeming qualities.

WCW needed everyone in the back to be gone. Completely retool their management. That was the only way they had any shot.
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2018, 05:24 PM
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I agree with all that, they needed to get rid of Russo permanently in January. But you cant deny they had great talent in Booker, Goldberg, Steiner, Awesome, Storm, Jarrett, Sting, Mysterio, Douglas, DDP, Kanyon, Bigelow. Hell; most of the Natural Born Thrillers just needed time to grow personalities and they couldve been viable also. Problem was Russos booking throughout it all, had they just let it grow naturally all of those guys would've shone much brighter that year, they wouldn't have been able to overtake WWF but they couldve been viewed in a much better light than they were.

This is what I mean when I say the year wasn't as bad as remembered; there was moments of greatness; Lance Storms rise, Bookers World title run, Steiners insanity, Golbergs ruthless streak couldve flourished if Russo hadnt been around to ruin the execution of the storylines these fellas were involved in that latter half of the year.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
Re watching all Nitros and I will be the first to admit that up until Bash at the Beach WCW in the year 2000 was HORRIBLE; uninspired angles and nonsensical ones not to mention the hot shotting of the World Title; 8 different guys in a month is terrible by any standards.

On the other hand, after bash when you've replaced Hogan and Luger and DDP and Flair in the top spots with Steiner, Goldberg and Booker T the promise really starts to show, I dont know why they didn't push these guys sooner, perhaps if they had WCW would've been in a better position and could've staved off cancellation; who knows. Now theres still a lot of shit to get through like Russo coming back and getting the WCW title and the nonsensical nWo rehash but underneath all of that they had madman Steiner, fighting champ Booker and unstoppable Goldberg along with Nash and his cool factor and workers like Lance Storm, Mike Awesome, Jarrett, Douglas along with good acts like Kronik I think WCW had a real shot at becoming viable again, does anybody else agree with me here??
No. Just no. The reason they couldn't is that the back was so toxic with politicking that you could not get ANY fresh face over. The other reason is that they had all these "safe harbor" contracts that made people that did not deserve it the highest rates in the company. You could not cut the paycheck of a Kevin Nash or a Hulk Hogan if you tried. WCW was almost as bad as ECW when it came to payroll. They actually paid the Iron Sheik $100,000 to stay home. Guess what? The brass were so feckless, they RE-SIGNED Sheik to a one-year deal to basically stay home. He wrestled a handful of matches, then waited by the phone. Add Kevin Nash's 'Book my friends and fuck all else' mentality, and WCW did not have a chance. 2000 was basically the elevator losing its' cables and falling down into the bottomless pit.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
I agree with all that, they needed to get rid of Russo permanently in January. But you cant deny they had great talent in Booker, Goldberg, Steiner, Awesome, Storm, Jarrett, Sting, Mysterio, Douglas, DDP, Kanyon, Bigelow. Hell; most of the Natural Born Thrillers just needed time to grow personalities and they couldve been viable also. Problem was Russos booking throughout it all, had they just let it grow naturally all of those guys would've shone much brighter that year, they wouldn't have been able to overtake WWF but they couldve been viewed in a much better light than they were.
I actually don't agree. Steiner was breaking down. Jarrett was not a main event level guy. DDP was old. Sting was old. Mysterio was not WWE Mysterio. I don't think Douglas was that good. Kanyon wasn't great either. Bigelow wasn't special and old. Goldberg wasn't long for the business. I'm not sure Awesome had the promo skills to be a top guy (or he was never really given an opportunity to grow).

That leaves you with Booker and a bunch of young prospects. That would have been a multi-year challenge. So I don't think they had a viable product with that base of talent.

Quote:
This is what I mean when I say the year wasn't as bad as remembered; there was moments of greatness; Lance Storms rise, Bookers World title run, Steiners insanity, Golbergs ruthless streak couldve flourished if Russo hadnt been around to ruin the execution of the storylines these fellas were involved in that latter half of the year.
The year only had very tiny glimpses of entertainment. I think you're giving this year way too much credit.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2018, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therockiswwf View Post
I actually don't agree. Steiner was breaking down. Jarrett was not a main event level guy. DDP was old. Sting was old. Mysterio was not WWE Mysterio. I don't think Douglas was that good. Kanyon wasn't great either. Bigelow wasn't special and old. Goldberg wasn't long for the business. I'm not sure Awesome had the promo skills to be a top guy (or he was never really given an opportunity to grow).

That leaves you with Booker and a bunch of young prospects. That would have been a multi-year challenge. So I don't think they had a viable product with that base of talent.



The year only had very tiny glimpses of entertainment. I think you're giving this year way too much credit.

different flavours for different folks I guess, I avoided 2000 WCW in my Nitro marathon for awhile and was ready to shit all over it and I mostly am because it is mostly shit but there is a lot there that they COULD have capitalized on to make WCW a much much better product.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:16 AM
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Yeah...gonna have to disagree there. If you're into it, more power to you but, to me, WCW became pretty much unwatchable once Vince Russo arrived.

Aside from the atrociously bad booking decisions, something else that hurt WCW was the fact that the company hadn't produced younger stars, weren't pushing younger stars on the roster or gave spots to wrestlers who didn't have the goods. The company was centered around guys like Championships were treated like pure garbage and became something that wrestlers simply traded carrying for a while.

The WCW World Television Championship, for instance, was literally tossed into a trash can by Scott Hall, Jim Duggan carried it around afterward for about 50 days or so before WCW abandoned it completely.

During 2000, the US Championship was vacated 3 times and spent the 2nd half of 2000 being passed around between Lance Storm and General Rection.

The WCW World Heavyweight Championship was vacated 6 times in 2000 was, again, passed around for different guys to carry around for a little while and this time period also included the infamous runs of David Arquette and Vince Russo himself.

The WCW World Tag Team Championship may have been worse off than any other title in the company because aside from just being passed around to teams of nobodies, for the most part, nothing remotely memorable was happening with the titles. The other straps were being misused but some things were going down with them that at least had people talking about them.

There were so many problems in WCW during this time period that the product was unwatchable, I'd all but stopped watching altogether.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray11214
No. Just no. The reason they couldn't is that the back was so toxic with politicking that you could not get ANY fresh face over. The other reason is that they had all these "safe harbor" contracts that made people that did not deserve it the highest rates in the company. You could not cut the paycheck of a Kevin Nash or a Hulk Hogan if you tried. WCW was almost as bad as ECW when it came to payroll. They actually paid the Iron Sheik $100,000 to stay home. Guess what? The brass were so feckless, they RE-SIGNED Sheik to a one-year deal to basically stay home. He wrestled a handful of matches, then waited by the phone. Add Kevin Nash's 'Book my friends and fuck all else' mentality, and WCW did not have a chance. 2000 was basically the elevator losing its' cables and falling down into the bottomless pit.
Say what? What use was Sheiky Baby to them at that point?
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Old 05-19-2018, 04:52 PM
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Ok so had Russo been fired when Hogan left, do you guys think WCW could have salvaged some fans with the roster they had?
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:25 AM
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The only thing I can consider to agree on is that the roster wasn't too bad at all. But, the booking was what was so wrong. When the fingerpoke of Doom came, it started the huge decline. The mess with Jeff Jarett and Hogan was ridiculous and then David Arquette winning the World title - it was shocking. The problem is WCW had a different audience to WWF. When the NWO came along in 1997, you'd never had thought 3 years later the business would be almost bankrupt. This was purely because of Vince Russo and his whacky booking.

Not only that, if you compare it to TNA over the past 11/12 years - the talent depth they had on their roster and now they lost many of them to WWE, and look how well WWE does with the top stars from TNA!
I would say that TNA has always been booked very averagely and often poorly. But never as insultingly bad as WCW was in 2000.
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