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  #11  
Old 02-05-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
But even with all that, the documentaries, the books, the interviews, there are still the "myths" out there about Bret. The decision not to drop the title to Shawn, the whole "Screwjob" set up, the decision to go back to the WWE in 2006 and later in 2012. It seems like every move he makes or every opinion he has is dissected like no other. People are always looking for an ulterior motive or some "shade" that is thrown at the direction of someone.
I guess because he did exactly that so publicly... he dissected the whole contract/Shawn situation for the doc... then he did the same with everything to do with the screwjob and Owen. Gotta be prepared to take it if you do it yourself.
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2018, 09:16 PM
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Mostly the Montreal screw job

And HBK real life issues

But also he was good at his job in a time where being small and steroid free was a detriment, he helped usher in a time where being athletic was better than being huge which is still being enjoyed by guys like Styles and Balor today.

He was one of the first guys who could end a match in other ways than his prescribed finisher; he told a unique story in the ring most of the time which is a rarity.

Last edited by relentless1 : 02-05-2018 at 09:20 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2018, 03:18 AM
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There is so much more to Brets legacy than just the screwjob.

He has to rank in the top 10 WWE all time list based on his achievements, and no matter what some may say... he was one heck of a wrestler in the ring. The way he would structure his matches and time his comebacks was impeccable.
I still rank his Summerslam92 match with Davey amongst my favourites ever. How many 5 star matches has he been in? countless.

For me as a kid in the early 90s- you had so many 'Over the top' cartoon characters... Hogan, Warrior, Taker, Savage were larger than life characters... but Bret didn't have such a flashy persona.... in fact he seemed more real, more human... someone you could relate to.
I think his popularity was also underated. Whilst he couldn't follow Hogan at the box office (but who could till Austin exploded?) he did have a worldwide following. As a European I can say he was exceptionally popular in the UK, Germany.... and of course a national hero in Canada.

After his career he did become somewhat of a jaded cynic .... (though despite this his book is still an excellent read), however its great to see after all this years that he has mended fences with Vince and Shawn, and move on with his life.
That said the Screwjob was still incredibly intriguing ... but that alone doesn't define him.
He was one of the best.
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  #14  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:38 AM
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with Bret being a labelled an 'aging cynic' by naive wrestling fans. Calling a spade a spade, like saying that Triple H is his own biggest mark, is simple honesty. Today's millennials know very little about being honest with others and themselves as they grew up on a steady diet of fake reality TV and parental guidance garbage. Obviously the screwjob is a big part of the fascination surrounding Bret on wrestling threads. But the biggest reason is that Bret was simply one of the all time best. I think what makes 'Bret threads' the more entertaining though is the fact that Bret himself is a straight shooter who is never shy to speak his mind. Bret has also been known to stand for doing the right thing. That's why he's so outspoken and 'cynical' about those who don't or in the past didn't do the right thing. It wasn't just a hero character he played on TV. Bret is and was the real deal and people who hold integrity above all else, like myself, tend to be fascinated with him.
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:16 PM
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No matter what you think of the guy personally you can't deny the talent he had, His matches against Dynamite etc were incredible and in my opinion on a different level to anything before or since, With the exception of his most recent WWE return have you ever seen a bad or lackluster Bret Hart match? I'm a huge Hogan fan but even I was disapointed by his 30 second main event against Yokozuna the first time I seen him live in the UK but Bret Hart I always felt gave 100% each time even against lower card guys, His matches felt real there was no over the top or wasted moves. I have seen him at conventions a couple of times now and his line always seems longer than everyone elses so going by that he seems popular.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:35 AM
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Bret Hart was like the down to Earth guy that went about his business, what guy could be considered cool yet wore pink & black as his attire.

He won the World Title and despite him being in the WWF for some time it was like the New Generation had arrived. Hogan was on his way out with his tired and dated gimmick, Savage was semi-retired, Andre was gone, Flair was gone, DiBiase's back was giving him problems.

Bret Hart didn't have bulging biceps, he didn't have some cartoon gimmick, but he was 'The Hitman', the guy that wore leather jackets and introduced people to a more technical, submission style wrestling that people at the time probably weren't too familiar with.

I can't remember Bret Hart having a poor match, bear in mind Hart wasn't the biggest wrestler either, and he had feuds against the likes Yokozuna, Diesel, Bob Backlund. Basically everyone who wrestled him says it was like a night off and he never injured anyone.

If Bret Hart was on the card then the match was worth watching, it didn't matter whether is was against HBK, Jerry Lawler, Hakushi or Bam Bam Bigelow.

Even when he was past his peak and seeing out his days in WCW, there's a couple of matches against Benoit that anyone who is a wrestling fan should watch, regardless of opinions of the latter.
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:59 AM
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I think his fans feels like he was screwed his entire career. He was too small to main event with guys like Hogan, Andre, Savage, Warrior, etc, was never going to get out of the tag-team/IC level. Then when the New Generation era started to take shape, Vince always wanted someone else on top, be it Luger, Diesel, or HBK. Obviously the screwjob happened. And then in WCW he was supposedly held down, and then forced to retired sooner than he probably would have due to injury. On top of that, you add personal tragedy such as Owen and Davey Boy dying, and him having a serious stroke. And on top of that, HBK came back after the Attitude era and had a whole second run, you couldn't help feel like Bret should have been there was well. You could see why his fans would feel bad for him.

On the other hand, there are those who say he never really became a top star like Hogan or Flair because he wasn't that special. They say the screwjob was his own fault for not doing what his boss told him to do. They say he's bitter now and that's why he's constantly criticizing any and every one.

His peak was the New Generation era, but he was a part of the start of the Attitude era, and the screwjob is the event that really put the wheels in motion for the Attitude era and the evil Vince McMahon character. And while he was always a tag-team/IC level guy during the Hulkamania era, was a big part of it. So really the two biggest boom periods, while not the top guy, he was a part of both to some degree. And on top of that with his polarizing personality and career, it’s understandable why so many wrestling fans still find him fascinating today.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:57 PM
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If the screw job is all you remember about Bret Hart then you’re not much of a wrestling fan. Bret was always true to the sport being how he grew up in a wrestling family. The times when he wouldn’t drop the belt to someone was because of the way that person was to Bret, ala Shawn Michaels. He was a wrestler not a gimmick and that’s how he felt the business should be.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2018, 08:21 PM
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Not sure you can say that, as a whole generation of fans have come to the sport/business since Bret retired. They were not around when he was at his prime, and the first things they hear linked to his name are Montreal, Screwjob, Shawn, Owen...

A modern wrestling fan may not have had the chance to go back and watch his work, or learn about him past a Wikipedia read or the odd youtube video. Remember he retired in 2001, so that's potentially any fan upto around 25 or so who may not be that familiar with him...

They may have just grown up with Edge as their "canadian hero" or Chris Jericho... they may have been a Cena fan or focused on TNA.

The difficulty is that much of Bret's career is either controversy or relatively repetitive... There are good matches, but a lot of dross... There's Wrestling with Shadows, but watching that without either being around the first time or having watched the whole time period makes it not very useful. His own book has somewhat damaged perception of even his best match as Summerslam by throwing the dead Davey under the bus as he did.

Bret's career to the uninitiated can only ever be viewed "through a prism" so to speak now... just as Shawn's can. It's unfortunate but the reality is a lot of younger fans won't have the time or dedication to learn about it... and they will still be wrestling fans.
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  #20  
Old 04-26-2018, 12:40 PM
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The thing about Bret Hart for me was what some of you said, a great in-ring technician that wasn't so gimmicky or larger than life but regular guy so to speak. When I started watching as a kid in the late 80's, of course like many I loved Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Demolition, etc because they were larger than life and characters. However, one guy who stood out was Bret Hart. At first what stood out to me about him was his in-ring work. Most of those guys I just mentioned and many others from that era had a limited and basic move set capped with a finisher in which most were pretty weak (Hogan leg drop, Warrior Big Splash, etc). However, Bret would do some great in-ring work and was good at selling especially when he'd hit that turnbuckle with his chest which I never saw other guys do. Secondly, his character was slick and cool with the jacket and glasses and the name Hitman. Now early on he wasn't that great at promos and delivered some typical old school style promos like the rest of the guys. But later he came into his own and when he became a heel, he was adding realism and delivering some good promos, not like an Austin or Rock, but still pretty solid.

One last thought, I was recently watching some episodes of Raw/PPVs around the summer of 97 on the network and the Hart Family special on there. Kind of saddens me to think how great of a stable the Hart Foundation was as they were a great heel stable in the States but in Canada were god-like. And within a couple months, Pillman died and Bret was out of the WWF followed by Anvil and Bulldog and further another year or so later with Owen's death. I just think what could have been had Pillman not died and Bret, Davey, and Anvil not left. Could've had some great feuds with DX along with maybe Bret vs The Rock, Bret vs Kane, hart Foundation vs NOD, maybe revisit Bret vs Stone Cold again, etc. Honestly I think even if Bret stayed, we still would've gotten the Attitude Era and Mr. McMahon as a heel boss. What could have been....
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