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  #1  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:14 PM
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Default If Vader Stayed With WCW

In case you didnít know, Iím kind of a Vader mark. Iíve created threads before about how I felt he could and should have been so much more in the WWF and I think thatís a pretty common opinion that most people share. Letís look at the post WCW career of Vader from a different angle. What if Vader returned to WCW in 1996?

In late 1995 Vader left WCW after a backstage fight with Paul Orndorff. According to Vader he was not fired for this incident. Instead Eric Bischoff advised Vader to take some time away from WCW and either just relax or go take some work in Japan and come back when things cooled down. Vader did not take that deal and ended up in the WWF a few months later. Vader did ok in the WWF at first but was nowhere near as dominant as he was in WCW. For the record Iím not sure I would take Bischoff at his word when he said he would welcome Vader back, but for the sake of this thread letís say he was being truthful. What if Vader took Bischoffís advice and returned to WCW after a few months? One of three things would have happened.

Vaderís return would have taken place around the time the nwo was formed. With his credentials he would have been a likely recruit for the nwo. Despite having big men like Kevin Nash and The Giant I think Vader would have been a great enforcer for the group. Nash and Giant were too sarcastic and running their mouth a bit much for that type of role. I picture Vader as a no nonsense destroyer looking intimidating in the background in his nwo t shirt while the rest of the crew did their thing on the mic. He probably would have eventually been fed to Goldberg (nothing wrong with that, could have been a good feud) but maybe Vader could have gotten a couple more years out of WCW.

I think it would have been interesting to see Vader return as a face and go against the nwo. Vader was always a terrifying heel but he was always pretty cool and badass. I think the fans would have embraced him as a new hero and he definitely had the credibility in WCW to give the nwo a real challenge. I think he was the type of character that if he turned face (in his prime) he could have been really popular. Just imagine a dominant monster making a surprise return and chasing off the new bad guys. The former ruler of the company had been gone and in his absence a new group was wreaking havoc. At first the fans would be worried that their old worst nightmare was returning but would have been relieved and overjoyed to discover that the once feared monster was now on their side. I definitely think Vader could have gotten some mileage out of that.

The final scenario is Vader returns with zero momentum and is quietly swept under the rug. He beats guys like Roadblock on Nitro but struggles against guys like Konnan and Scott Norton and is just used to put others over. Maybe heís presented as a challenge to the bigger names in the nwo but ultimately goes nowhere.

I like the idea of scenario two the best but I wonder if three is more likely. Vader was always a big name for WCW so maybe he could have done well in 1996 and beyond but WCW didnít seem to care much for the names they built up throughout the early 90s once Hogan and company showed up. How do you think Vaderís career would have played out if he returned to WCW in 1996?

And if this thread seems a little familiar you might be remembering me discuss this same topic about Ricky Steamboat a while back. I have no concept of time around here so itís probable that no one remembers that.
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2012, 08:18 PM
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He probably would have been in a role similar to Luger's; he would have been built as a legitimate threat to the nWo but would have eventually went down to Hogan before Sting ultimately beat him. I do think he would have been much better than Luger though.

I can't fathom them putting him in the nWo, though. Just the thought of him in an nWo shirt with that mask makes me chuckle a bit.
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2012, 09:21 PM
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I want to start out by saying that I'm a big fan of Vader and would have loved to have seen a title feud between him and Goldberg. Vader being a legit threat to Goldberg and maybe not being the one to defeat him, but to take him out time and time again etc...

In saying that to answer your question I fear Vader would end up in a version of your option 3. Why? Because if little Shawn Michaels could play the political card on Vader, then just imagine what Hogan, Nash and Hall would have done to poor Vernon.

I think the best sceanrio would have been him join forces with the WCW guys, Luger, DDP etc. That would have made the most sense. But at the time the nWo was randomly and really for no real push to the wrestler just adding everyone to their ranks. Remember when Muta and Chono joined? Maybe Vader would have been apart of nWo Japan with those two guys?

I think the extremely talented Vader would ahve been lost in the shuffle due to Hogan's dominance of the entire brand at the time... Although he was mistreated by WWF I feel it would have been much of the same in the massively stacked roster of WCW.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:33 PM
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I see only 2 options for him. A) He join the NWO instead of the Giant. Doubtful as Hogan seemed high on Paul back in the day
B) He is jobbed out. Lets face it Vader is a heel through and through and with NWO there was NO room for any other even semi major heel. So he has to be a face which does not suit him.

His best option would have been to go to Japan and STAY there. Not permanently but at least for a year. Then his stock has built up. His heat will have died and he can come back as a monster. He shows up in an NWO Japan shirt and then turns on them announcing he is in business for himself. Has a fued with Muta/Chono...then he goes after the Horseman showing he has no loyalties
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:53 PM
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Well if Vader had never gotten suspended in the first place, the plan was to turn him face and have him fight alongside Hogan, Savage, and Sting against Flair, the Horsemen and the Dungeon of Doom.

Having him and Sting be the main rivals of the NWO once it came about just feels right. Two guys who hated each other, and probably still do, team up to defend Dubyaseedubya. The storyline potential is huge. Everyone expects Vader to be the one to betray Sting and jump ship, but then fake Sting shows up and Vader flips. It writes itself.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GrandSword View Post
In saying that to answer your question I fear Vader would end up in a version of your option 3. Why? Because if little Shawn Michaels could play the political card on Vader, then just imagine what Hogan, Nash and Hall would have done to poor Vernon.
I think you are underestimating Shawn Michaels' political influence back in 1996. Remember The Kliq was the most influential backstage group in the WWE even when during that time Nash and Hall already left the company. Michaels and Triple H were still the only guys who had McMahon's ear even after that MSG Curtain Call Incident, from what read McMahon didn't want to punish Triple H but he had no choice due to pressure from people within the industry and other promoters (at a time when McMahon had a humbler influence in the industry).

So I would think the difference between WWE and WCW isn't too big. Heck he would probably still have been better used in WCW and probably would have gotten a run at the main event by 1999/2000 when guys like Booker T, Steiner, even Benoit were getting chances.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:57 AM
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If Vader had stayed in WCW it would equal the same thing thats happening to Abyss right now. Vader could have been WCW's Undertaker, buuuut just like tna, the writers were subpar, so i think he would have ended up just like Parks...um Abyss is right now.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by shooter_mcgavin View Post
I think you are underestimating Shawn Michaels' political influence back in 1996. Remember The Kliq was the most influential backstage group in the WWE even when during that time Nash and Hall already left the company. Michaels and Triple H were still the only guys who had McMahon's ear even after that MSG Curtain Call Incident, from what read McMahon didn't want to punish Triple H but he had no choice due to pressure from people within the industry and other promoters (at a time when McMahon had a humbler influence in the industry).

So I would think the difference between WWE and WCW isn't too big. Heck he would probably still have been better used in WCW and probably would have gotten a run at the main event by 1999/2000 when guys like Booker T, Steiner, even Benoit were getting chances.
I totally hear what you're saying and not underestimating Michaels at all, just bringing up the almost absolute power Hogan had with Bischoff, and when Hall and Nash made Bischoff the number 1 show, he did whatever those two guys wanted. The politcal power of Nash and Hall was immense as they were Bischoff's new cash cows and became his best friends besides Hulk Hogan. And we all know the relationship between Hogan and Bisch.

Nash and Hall probably would have said to Bischoff that the nWo was all about the "cool" factor and there just wasn't a place in this new world for Big Van Vader, no matter how talented he was. The nWo was a whole different direction for the company and Vader may not have had a place.

Unless of course he turns face and teams with WCW which I would have loved! But the nWo stupidly always beat the good guys...
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:53 PM
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If Vader stayed, even though he wouldnít of because he was being out shined or would of been with the likes of Hogan, Nash, Savage, Hall ect. I think something would of gave and we would either have Vader leaving or a whole new NWO or no NWO.
Anyway. IF, Vader stayed I think he would of been one of the first to just ship. Because that what the NWO was looking for at the time. The type of power and brawler that he was. Also I dont think Goldberg the character and streak wouldnt have been created. Cause I believe to be creditable he would have to go over Vader, I dont think Vader would do that. I mean he might but in WCW he was the monster and one of the top guys.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:36 PM
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Vader I think left WCW not only because of the fight but I think politically he was shut down. Look at how jobbed out and weak he became once Hogan showed up. You had Hogan "Hulk Out" from the Vader Bomb and stuff like this. Vader had to join Hogan and turn face in the end and this to me showed a cleverness on Hogan's part to bring Vader to his side to avoid having him as a threat.

But here's the thing, it was the Monday Night Wars where the small advantage over the other guys was important. So bringing Leon should have been attractive to WCW, hey they brough Bam Bam Bigolow to be a monster for Goldberg, right. I'm not sure why they didn't go for him. Maybe they did. I count a few key moments where he could have come in and be an interesting factor:

- When Warrior came in to face Hogan. Eventualy that feud ended quickly and Warrior was fired. But imagine if it would have continued. The nWo needed that weapon to even things out against Warrior. And Vader would have been perfect it. We could have had a "Dream Match" between two monsters Warrior vs Vader after that.

- If it were me, after the Finger-Poke, Goldberg would have gone threw the whole nWo and then beat Hogan for the belt, making him the biggest star of that company. Following that in mid 99, you can throw various monsters at Goldberg that WCW would hire for short term. Then it spills out into the mega feud people wanted to see, Goldberg vs Sting. That is when I would have brought in Vader, making it a three-way feud. Vader was the ultimate opponant for Sting. But he's also the greatest monsters WCW ever had before Goldberg. It's a marriage made in heaven. Have Leon finish that feud with the WCW belt even when all the monsters that attacked Goldberg for months join him.

- During the nWo Wolfpac vs nWo Hollywood War, I would have put it up a notch and while the Wolfpac were the popular guys, the Hollywood guys felt like a bunch of old mismatch jobbers sometime. To make it more even, have the Wolfpac being a bunch of cocky charismatic tweeners with Hall, Nash, Syx(if he stayed), Buff, Steiner, Hart, Guererro, Jericho and at the opposite ends nWo Black and White would be devastators with Hogan and Giant. Lose Beefcake. Then bring Vader and the Road Warriors to be with Hogan's group along with maybe Ming joining them. I think it would have made the two groups far different and more interesting.

- Then another option and I briefly touch upon it would be to have Vader come in instead of Bam Bam after Goldberg won the belt. It was a time where WCW lost some steam because the nWo was not there, but having someone more impressive than Bam Bamn in Vader instead it would have made Nitro more watchable.
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