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  #11  
Old 07-01-2017, 12:22 AM
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firstly, no that wasnt the thing that killed WCW (i'll get into what killed them later)....but i do agree that it was a BAD decision that started the bleeding on WCW going downhill. i wont just blame Hogan, i blame Eric here too. i get that he and Hogan were buds, but he should've told him, "Hulk, listen, youre a heel and while you are a "cool" type of heel, a heel losing clean never harms them." and they clean finish should've happened, Hogan should've then taken time off after the ppv and then return eventually after Sting's run was over and chase the championship again.

if Sting wasnt in the right shape or mind, then he should've never been given a shot, the problem here though was the ending was bad and the followup was bad and it all led to Hart looking stupid, a poor title run for Sting and Hogan looking good. if they didnt want to put Sting over, then they should've waited and then put Hart over (who should've came into WCW claiming that he's the WCW Champion since he never lost his previous championship).

As for what didnt kill WCW, it wasnt Hogan, Bischoff, Russo, Nash, Ted Turner or even Vince McMahon.....it was Time Warner/AOL and specifically Jamie Kellner who cancelled WCW and left it without a network show and made WCW worthless. so the death of WCW is blamed on AOL/Time Warner, if they wanted WCW to stay in business, it would've been in business.
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2017, 09:33 AM
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Bad Writing killed WCW.

WWE was surging with the DX thing but there was so much opportunity in WCW. What could've been an epic feud NWO Black & White vs. NWO Wolfpack became nothing when all the top stars switched to Wolfpack. Bret Hart's injuries didn't help either. But imagine a pro-longed faction feud between (Hogan, Big Show, Hennig, Steiner, Bagwell & Norton) vs. (Savage, Sting, Hall, Nash, & Luger). This could've lead to an epic war games style match for sure!!!

* Bret Hart should've stayed solo and had a big match vs. Goldberg for the title that didn't involve tazers.
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  #13  
Old 07-01-2017, 02:13 PM
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What should have been the start of the much anticipated Hogan v Hart feud ended up being a big clusterf..... Starcade 98 could have been even bigger than 97 with a double main event of Goldberg v Nash, and Hogan v Hart. That's what happens though when so many egos have creative control clauses in their contracts.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:33 PM
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SC 97 itself didnt really hurt WCW. They still dominated in the TV ratings, The Jan 98 Souled Out PPV (usually one of their weakest shows, a throw away since Jan was dominated by The Royal Rumble, one of WWE's biggest annual events) did it's best numbers ever, equaling the R-Rumble and nearly equaled WCW Feb 98 SuperBrawl (one of WCW biggest annual shows) which was more impressive considering Souled Out had no Hogan, Sting, DDP, & virtually no NwO.

SC 97 is emblamatic, a great example of the long term structural problems in the company, the issues that did doom the company....

A) Hogan's Creative Control: Supposedly it wasnt an official decission sanctioned by Bischoff that lead to the Nick Patrick improper count, rumor always was Hogan worked that out with Patrick on his own to give him a more face saving excuse in the loss. If Patrick, already well established as the "NwO Ref" had properly fast counted then Bischoff's use of Hart (a clear, direct shot at WWE) would have been better recieved, a clean loss for Hogan, a needed switch in the NwO-WCW storyline, and a defining insult to Vince & WWE. Hogan was welk known for changing planned finishes and forcing re writes in storylines. In 1994 he originally agreed to a 3 Match Trilogy with Ric Flair where Flair would regain the title in Match #2, setting up Hogan winning the feud by regaining the title in the finale, but shortly before the match Hogan balked, complaining a title loss might "hurt merchandise" sales, forget what it might have done for interest in the finale with both men tied 1-1 and Hogan the challenger, business interests were trumped by Hogan's interests. Similar to the way Hogan was booked with the biggest storylines and all the Main Events during almost all of Goldberg's title reign, devaluing Goldberg as champ with him having virtually no major storylines/title threats, while Hogan's stories got the most air time and best positioning. Goldberg was wredtling mostly mid card matches with little storyline from his July 98 win through Sept 98 while Hogan main evented every PPV, then they shared "co main event" status in the Oct 98 Halloween Havoc PPV. By the time Hogan took a vacation (billed as his Prrsidential Campaign in storylines) and Goldberg finally got the biggest match and best storyline for a PPV it was when he was booked to lose (vs Kevin Nash at SC 98). Hogan almost immediately got the title back afterwards and was supposedly asked by new Head Booker Kevin Nash to drop the belt at SuperBrawl 99 vs Flair and refused, stating he wanted at least more win over Flair before putting him over. Then, with WCW twice drawing TV ratings in the 5.0 range while airing against RAW and the reformed, lean, aggressive NwO storyline red hot, Hogan decided to end the story and inexplicably turn face (because he wanted his youngest son to get to watch him play a good guy like his older kids had). Hogan would only put over Flair if he was allowed to turn hero and return to the "Red & Yellow", which killed the company's best storyline, killed the momentum of Flair's return, and in the libg run killed interest in a re match with Goldberg (WCW's hottest talent not over 40 who went from World Champion to the bottom of the card almost immediately).

B) Health Issues: WCW had a real hard time keeping their most recognized and bankable stars in the ring for long stretches. Luger missed large portions of 98-99 with injuries, Sting & Brett Hart were MIA in late 98-early 99 with injuries compounded by Hart's career ending injury in late 99, Flair missed significant time in 96-97 with a torn rotator cuff (surgery & rehab) then broke his ankle in a match vs Curt Henning (forcing him to miss Starrcade, the 2nd straight year he was on injured reserve for the company's biggest show), Scott Hall's substance abuse issues severely limited him to barely anything sustained in 98 & 99, even Hogan (who already was granted significant time off annually like in his WWE days) missed time with knee surgery in 99, and of course Randy Savage missed several months in 98 & 99 recovering from knee surgery. All of these MIA's overlapped at various times, sometimes in almost disastrous fashion (Sting, Luger, & Hart were all on IR & missed Starrcade 98). Even if WCW had a strong creative vision & story telling having so many big money makers all N/A for months at a time would ruin things.

C) No or almost no investment in the undercard. WCW had a huge roster and a lot of talented performers but other than Hogan/Top NwO storylines few performers recieved any sustained TV time or character investment. When WCW first started overtaking WWE in late 95/early 96, they relied heavily on their "SuperStars of the 80s" main event roster (Flair, Hogan, Savage, Sting, Luger) but they also put significant effort into developing secondary storylines for their cruiserweights while pushing new talents like Big Show & DDP & Benoit, trying to elevate them. By 1997 virtually all of the secondary talent was used as "Throw aways" and very few of them recieved any sustained pushes outside of some very rare exceptions (like Raven). A large part of WWE's revival in this time frame came from investing in mid card talent (GodFather, Val Venus, NOD, etc) and some of these eventually made it to the main event stage (like Edge, HHH pushing past his secondary role in DX, etc). Look at Starrcade 98, a great main event storyline wise (Goldberg vs Nash), a huge #2 match (Flair's return), and does anyone even remember one other storyline ?? I attended that show live and cant remember anything outside the top 2 matches. I have a vague memory of a hastily thrown together with little momentum match between DDP & Big Show and nothing else. This was the company's signature show and hardly anyone got a major push outside 3 guys (not counting Bischoff, a non wrestler booked vs Flair).

Starrcade 97 features all of these moments, Hogan tinkering with the ending of his match to benefit him in spite of the overall benefits to the company (Not too mention Nash famously No Showing to avoid losing to Big Show, which eventually he was rewarded, not punished for, granted a pinfall win over him at Souled Out the next month, a prime example of those in Bischoff's ear being the inmates running the asylum), a thrown together bottom card where few wrestlers had any major storyline involvement, and a significant injury impacting matches (Flair's broken ankle forcing him out of the US Title Match vs Henning). Plus, in terms of inconsistent storylines, did Savage & Luger even have matches on this show, they werent injured at this time, where they even used ?

Did SC 97 kill WCW ? Absolutely not, but the issues that hurt that show existed consistently in WCW from at least late 97 on & that is what killed WCW.
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  #15  
Old 07-04-2017, 08:13 PM
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In all my life as a wrestling fan I don't remember any build up to any match as good as the Hogan vs Sting match, All for it to end in such a disapointing and confusing finish, At this point WCW had it all, The biggest name stars and most talented wrestlers in the world it seems difficult to have screwed up at this point but they somehow managed to do it.
I don't understand the reasoning of Hogan dominating and winning theres no positive that ever came out of it.
Starcade 97 should have been one of those great events people still talk about today but not in a negative way.
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2017, 08:20 AM
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A lot of nonsense (shall we say) happened in WCW regarding storylines, booking etc. after Starrcade 1997, but this is probably known as the start of the downward spiral, and the blame lands squarely at the feet of Hulk Hogan.

The main-event should have been a match for the ages, but it was anything but, Hogan's ego was obviously in overdrive, but that's what you get when give guys creative control.

The ideal scenario should have been either:-

a) Hogan dominates (give the dog a bone and all that, make him look good) hits the leg-drop only for Sting to kick-out at 2, and 'Sting' up, hitting his splash & death drop/death lock for the victory.

or

b) Throughout the match we see Nick Patrick showing very much his NWO colours, quick counting, not seeing Hogan cheating, warning Sting, shoulder locking when Sting has Hogan pinned etc. Hitman comes out and takes Patrick out, aligning with Sting and there you have a team willing to take on the NWO.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2017, 08:24 AM
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Amazing so many of WCW behind the scenes people are posting on a random wrestlezone discussion board. Believing so much internet scuttlebutt fries ones brains.
Nick Patrick ballsed up the three count, he counted three when he wasnt supposed to. Patrick came out recently and spoke for the first time and actually intimated that Sting asked for a fast count so he had an out as he knew Hogan would try something with creative control. At the end of the day, WCW stuffed the angle up royally, and having the stench of Montreal brought in with Hart just made it worse.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2017, 08:59 AM
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It's an absurd thing to State yes WCW could have done better with starrcade 97 yes more momentum could have been picked up but that did not depict what they continued to do what they had not to do in some areas.
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World championship wrestling did not have some kind of recipe gone wrong things worked out wrong with AOL Time Warner plain and simple everybody wants it back.
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